Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Trump is running a strange mixed course. He's making a fool of himself in the press conferences which is, of course where the visibility is, but neither has he ever put anything in the way of requests or solid advice. Two of his biggest detractors are the Governors of New York and California, but both are on record as saying that as far as Coronavirus goes, they have received everything that they asked for from the Federal Government. Fauci and Brix have confirmed that he has never said no to their recommendations either.

However, the bar in the US seems low. The various mis-steps by the Trump administration such as folding the pandemic response team into another department are equally mirrored at State levels. If you move from national level media and look at more local media, you'll see that they are investigating their own governments as well. California never restocked its PPE and also cut its pandemic response budget, for example. Texas' testing response seemed unconscionably slow. New York City's Public Health team in February were telling people not to worry about coronavirus, there wass low risk of casual transmission, go support the Asian community by attending the Lunar New Year events and parades. Florida letting Spring Break happen unfettered was a disaster, and in the American system, the front line are the States, not the Feds.

Getting off to a dodgy start and then recovering seems to be an American tradition. Anything from wars to the Space Race. In this case, we know the curve was successfully flattened. There was no ventilator shortage, nobody had to be triaged. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/04/28/coronavirus-hospitals-avoid-ventilator-shortage-curve-new-york-flattens/3036008001/

If you want to talk about opening up the chequebook, here's an example.

Like other countries, the US military built field hospitals. And we had the two hospital ships. One was returned from New York after treating 350 people.
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/07/851712311/u-s-field-hospitals-stand-down-most-without-treating-any-covid-19-patients

"Chicago pared back plans for a 3,000-bed temporary hospital at McCormick Place, the nation’s largest convention center, as infection numbers decreased. Opened April 3 instead with 500 beds, the $64 million facility treated just 12 people as of last week, with six of them being released."

$64mn for 12 people? It gets better, $270mn for two hospitals in New York which treated nobody at all. Now, better to have built them and see the other measures like physical distancing and improved testing result in them being unused than to have saved the money and not built them only to find they were needed, but the chequebooks are open and the US at both Federal and State levels has poured dollars into the problem to recover. Which is also a bit of an American tradition.

As for daily life, meat is being rationed in our shops here in Texas courtesy of the packing problems. Everyone's wearing masks. Testing is accessible and the State is doing the estimated required number of tests per day for effectiveness. My 23-month-old (who was tested after getting a fever somehow) probably thinks that there's no world outside the garden fence. I think my hobby shop is open, I need to go get paint. Apparently the old hobby of scale modelling is experiencing a resurgence as people are stuck in the house, but it's limited by the fact that the shop was closed under the restrictions. It's not a high-profit-margin industry to begin with, I hope the guy manages to stay in business. I have a house I rent out in California, my tenants were all laid off in the shutdown, so I am on the hook for an extra mortgage payment.

I mean Trump is on the record as saying governers who are mean to him should get nothing so any praise at this point is worthless. Doesn't matter if he would have or could have followed through. If they thought there was a chance it could hamper their resources they had to play nice. Similarly #firefauci was retweeted by Trump at one point and was taken up by the faithful. He may worry he can't help people if he is fired. Even now Fox, which Trump takes a lot of interest in is attacking Fauci.

In any case if a lot the actions are done at the state level this means that those briefings is Trump's key job during this period.

The US has turned into the hot-spot for this. The average number of cases far exceeds the EU (per capita or total) with per capita deaths set to overtake the EU in the coming days. Granted you could say a lot of that is New York but the EU could similarly point to Spain/Italy.

I know in Ireland there are specific moratoriums for landlords who have tenants affected by the shut down. Anything like that you could look into? Like many model painters I never run close to have everything painted so thankfully I was stocked up before this all happened, even with the shops closed (I believe there are some online stores open).

A lot will have to change in the EU and the US. Hilary had a point in her manifesto which could become a new idea of a more specific planning between countries for these sort of events. Pandemics affect a lot of countries and each countries actions affect others (everywhere near New York is suffering for instance, that is not likely a coincidence). Certain regions will need different measures but I feel it has really shown up a lack of people's ability to work together across borders.

TomOnBoard

hotmail.com wrote: »

The Trump coverage reminds me of their OJ coverage - a circus.

Well, in both cases, they are/were covering the actions of a narcissistic criminal, so it ought not surprise that they would use similar narcissistic criminal- reporting strategies??

PropJoe10

abff wrote: »

Thanks for the detailed response.

I kind of figured that’s what he’s doing, but it’s mind boggling that such a blatant ploy might actually work. It just shows how low things have sunk during Trump’s reign of idiocracy.

As I said a few days ago, people shouldn't become numb to the damage that this man is doing to his country and to his office. None of this is normal and the day that people start treating it as normal will be the end of the USA.

check_six

Please bear in mind when assessing the US response to the current crisis is that they are the wealthiest and most influential nation on earth. They had the guts of a two month headstart to prepare for the oncoming storm. They should be knocking this one out of the park, but due to shambolic misleading dishonest leadership from yer man they are struggling.

Manic Moran

Christy42 wrote: »

I know in Ireland there are specific moratoriums for landlords who have tenants affected by the shut down. Anything like that you could look into?

The banks would far rather have their money late than go into the whole foreclosure business, so most have at least a 90 day pause option. It doesn’t relieve the responsibility of making the payments, we still have to fork out the same amount of cash overall in the same amount of time, it means that we have to pay back the missed payments over a certain period in the future whilst also making the basic mortgage payments. Similarly, whilst a lot of places had temporary moratoriums on tenant evictions for those who could not pay, it also does not relieve them the responsibility of back paying the rent. Folks without work are not unusually choosing to bail out when they have no guarantee of being able to make future rent, let alone back rent. In my case, some tenants (it was an extended family) are moving out of state, one is moving back in with mom.

This is partly why we are having all these “get the country at least somewhat running again” advocates. We can’t get back to normal, but at least we can help some folks start to pay the bills again and reduce the stress on everyone. Folks who run cinemas and bars are still hosed, but at least we can help the folks running small hobby shops or car modification companies or whatever, reduce the overall level of the economic disaster and also reduce the strain on the government purse to help the rest.

I presume similar such discussions are happening in other countries.

listermint

I work under the assumption that states don't have much money for programs they are cutting because the GOP prefer to give trillions to major private industry or their associates rather than sort out public mess.

Underfund, run it down , make charity pay for what's left.

Similar thing happening in the UK right now and yes again their are folks over there trying to point the finger at local councils for it rather than you know... The Tories , that conservative party. So conservative they are the mirror of the conservative GOP in the US.

Both parties amazingly so poor with finance management despite he moniker of conservative.


Mad ain't it.

hotmail.com

Leroy42 wrote: »

This is the same argument used to excuse Trump. Others should have far higher standards because they are supposed to be better, but Fox/Trump or whatever aren't really serious anyway so they shouldn't be held to the same standards.

If you have an issue with CNN, then you must also have serious issues with Fox and also Trump himself. Trump is the leading fake news purveyor in the US right now, which a reach far in excess of CNN. He creates headlines out of thin air (Obamagate being the latest example).

The failings of Fox News is well rehearsed in Ireland. We know it is a joke. What value is there repeating that? Some people in America enjoy it. It reflects a segment of the American population and feeds into American arrogance, ignorance and materialism.

On the other hand, CNN and the mainstream media in America in general escapes criticism for its handling of Trump. The White House Correspondent has become a celebrity. All a total farce.

hotmail.com

Itssoeasy wrote: »

How do you know that people here give CNN such authority ? Your posts are filled with statements of what you believe are facts yet you decided to single out CNN for its coverage of OJ Simpson for some bizarre reason. What about the Reagan assassination attempt, the challenger disaster, the gulf wars both times, the Columbia disaster. It seems they've gotten praise for their coverage of all these big events and no TV network worth its salt wasn't going to not cover both the arrest or trial.

Btw nbc interrupted the NBA finals to broadcast the chase yet I don't see you complaining about NBC or ABC, or CBS who did cover the chase and trial.

Also, you said that CNN has little international stories ? The channel outside of the USA is literally called CNN international.

Well all of those events you mention happened in the 1980s. CNN at least had some credibility then.

Oh the networks, as they call them in America, were equally guilty of excessive coverage of that trial. I recall that Peter Jennings of ABC was the only journalist to speak out about the level of coverage the story was getting. It was a grotesque blot on journalism.

CNN International is broadcast outside of America. I'm talking about the CNN broadcast in America. But once you bring that up, CNNI has reduced large amounts of its international coverage, closing its Hong Kong bureau. Instead they just keep showing the US CNN with the daily Trump drama.

hotmail.com

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Except the people that watch it , which is the problem.

Loads of evidence to show that people that exclusively get their news from Fox are the least likely to know the facts or to accept information given to them from authorities.

This can be said for all of the American media and all Americans.

Have you ever chatted with Americans before? They know very little outside of their own state.

FrostyJack

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Except the people that watch it , which is the problem.

Loads of evidence to show that people that exclusively get their news from Fox are the least likely to know the facts or to accept information given to them from authorities.

I only got around to watching the first episode of the Loudest Voice, the other day, it explains the creation of Fox News and how it was set up. No shock to anyone outside the bubble. Russell Crowe plays Ailes perfectly.

TomOnBoard

The FBI served a search warrant for Richard Burrs phone and Cloud storage service today as part of the stock trading investigation. He will step down as Chair of the Intelligence Committee on a temporary basis tomorrow. ..

Interesting !

Foxtrol

pixelburp wrote: »

A big difference here though isn't so much Trump IMO, it's that the American political landscape is skewed by its inherently "sports fan" tribalism: Trump continues to exist as a political force because of Fox News boosting his behaviour, while the endemic partisanship ensures he still polls at 85% with Republicans. On balance he's deeply unpopular sure, but at this stage the only thing that might nuke his support with Conservative America would be a leak of an abortion - and even then, would it?

As was said way back at his election, Trump is merely the symptom - the 2 party system is the disease.

The 2 party system on a state by state basis hasn't been an issue with Governors improving their polling. Whatever issue you have with the 2 party system, this is a problem uniquely for the incompetence of Trump and his team.

Trump had the opportunity to step back from that tribalism after he was elected and bask in the economy he inherited - doing basic republican things like giving out his tax breaks, cutting regulations, and appointing judges. Instead he went and threw petrol on the fire by leaning into the most extreme fringes of his election platform, the parts his surrogates during the election said he wouldn't really do. Fox News wasn't going to suddenly slam him for only doing the former stuff, at times his actions and words have gone too far for even them.

duploelabs

hotmail.com wrote: »

The failings of Fox News is well rehearsed in Ireland. We know it is a joke. What value is there repeating that? Some people in America enjoy it. It reflects a segment of the American population and feeds into American arrogance, ignorance and materialism.

On the other hand, CNN and the mainstream media in America in general escapes criticism for its handling of Trump. The White House Correspondent has become a celebrity. All a total farce.

I'm still waiting for you to enforce your point regarding Fox know they're 'not being taken seriously'

Itssoeasy

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The FBI served a search warrant for Richard Burrs phone and Cloud storage service today as part of the stock trading investigation. He will step down as Chair of the Intelligence Committee on a temporary basis tomorrow. ..

Interesting !

Interesting is one word tom but it's strange that a GOP chairman of the senate committee that has been very bipartisan and released a report backing up the conclusion that Russian did in fact interfere in the 2016 US election is the one to have this happen to him.

banie01

duploelabs wrote: »

I'm still waiting for you to enforce your point regarding Fox know they're 'not being taken seriously'

Fox news cut from Dr Richard Bright's testimony in Congress today to cover a discussion about fúcking Baseball!

The trope that hotmail.com subscribes that Fox is "entertainment" would be okay, if it labelled itself as Fox Infotainment, they don't do that tho.

They pointedy and deliberately label themselves Fox News.

As for the spiel about the on-screen graphics.
CNN's whilst not perfect are usually detailed and factual. Further to that, CNN present their editorial comment as precisely that.

Fox tends to editorialise to a massive degree rather share facts or actual insight.

The entire US TV news paradigm is quite partisan, that many in the US honestly seem to have lost the ability to assess credibility and veracity of their news sources is a symptom of US educational malaise and a race to cater for the lowest common denominator of their electorate.

Penn

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Interesting is one word tom but it's strange that a GOP chairman of the senate committee that has been very bipartisan and released a report backing up the conclusion that Russian did in fact interfere in the 2016 US election is the one to have this happen to him.

Yeah. Odd how the same investigation doesn't seem all that interested in Sen. Kelly Loeffler, another GOP Senator who did the same thing but has had almost nothing but praise for Trump. Head scratcher....

kowloon

Manic Moran wrote: »

Apparently the old hobby of scale modelling is experiencing a resurgence as people are stuck in the house, but it's limited by the fact that the shop was closed under the restrictions. It's not a high-profit-margin industry to begin with, I hope the guy manages to stay in business.

I picked up a 1/35 T-35 which I plan to put together. Got it online from Mark's Models in Dublin who I believe are still shipping orders. It's been a while and the shaky hands and bad eyesight won't help but I'm sure I'm not alone. But even with the upturn in interest and online shipping, I'd say people are cutting back expenditure in equal, if not greater, measure. The rainy day funds are being held back just in case.

salmocab wrote: »

I’m going to look that up later. It really grates on my nerves and it’s so overused that it’s lost any meaning anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB9JgxhXW5w

Sorry if it's a little off-topic, but I also think the use of 'gate' is getting a little tiring.

sliabh 1956

I wonder will the Don let lose on Dr.Bright later on this evening as one of the Senators said " The strange thing about all this is the one guy who called this right from the beginning is the Guy who gets sacked the people who got it wrong are still in jobs"

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

Everyone's wearing masks. Testing is accessible and the State is doing the estimated required number of tests per day for effectiveness. My 23-month-old (who was tested after getting a fever somehow) probably thinks that there's no world outside the garden fence. I think my hobby shop is open, I need to go get paint. Apparently the old hobby of scale modelling is experiencing a resurgence as people are stuck in the house, but it's limited by the fact that the shop was closed under the restrictions. It's not a high-profit-margin industry to begin with, I hope the guy manages to stay in business. I have a house I rent out in California, my tenants were all laid off in the shutdown, so I am on the hook for an extra mortgage payment.

Masks are a pain, the whiff & taste of chemicals from them. You should try jigsaws PUZZLES, they've become a big item here, sisters on her fourth, easy fold-up & store when done. On the issue of Don, if the virus hadn't got in, he'd be a shoe-in in Nov.

Manic Moran

listermint wrote: »

I work under the assumption that states don't have much money for programs they are cutting because the GOP prefer to give trillions to major private industry or their associates rather than sort out public mess.

I don't see how you can blame the GOP for California underfunding its pandemic response assets over the past few years. The Democrats (Is there an acronym for them?) have had a supermajority there and control house, senate and governor's office, they can basically do whatever they want. I'm not arguing against the statement as a whole, but it is certainly far from saying that it's the root of all evil.

Similarly, the issues with major private industry is a great talking point, which tends to overlook that those major private industries have a lot of minor private people on the payroll. I was talking to a rep at United Airlines yesterday, re-rescheduling a flight. Part of the bailout requirement was that the airlines not let anyone go until October. With the airlines losing money hand over fist right now, any normal business would have let staff go immediately, and the one airline alone employs (and gives benefits like health and 401k) to some 100k people. The lass I was speaking to expected to be out of work in October, when the deal expires unless either another deal is struck or things recover.
Further, if the business does fold, it's not like a local small business. If my local hobby shop goes out of business, it's a disaster for one man, and economically, it's not unreasonable for another person to open another to fill in the demand. If a major airline folds, not only are the remainder of the 100k people suffering disaster, but it's a little more difficult for a new major network to start up which is a long-term problem, especially given how dependent the US is on air travel.

You should try jigsaws, they've become a big item here, sisters on her fourth, easy fold-up & store when done.

For a moment, I thought you meant the power tool.

aloyisious

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The FBI served a search warrant for Richard Burrs phone and Cloud storage service today as part of the stock trading investigation. He will step down as Chair of the Intelligence Committee on a temporary basis tomorrow. ..

Interesting !

Absolutely. He'll have to have identified the other people he conversed with in both recorded call and deals, and on any written records he kept, with brokers so his investments were secure. The named brokers also have to keep a record of their days dealings on the market so they can tally-up at days end, leaving more avenues for the FBI to follow when they come calling to ask about the senator's tradings. He's hardly the only one in the senate using brokers. I assume Mitch will have a worthy nominee to fill the vacancy.

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

I don't see how you can blame the GOP for California underfunding its pandemic response assets over the past few years. The Democrats (Is there an acronym for them?) have had a supermajority there and control house, senate and governor's office, they can basically do whatever they want. I'm not arguing against the statement as a whole, but it is certainly far from saying that it's the root of all evil.

Similarly, the issues with major private industry is a great talking point, which tends to overlook that those major private industries have a lot of minor private people on the payroll. I was talking to a rep at United Airlines yesterday, re-rescheduling a flight. Part of the bailout requirement was that the airlines not let anyone go until October. With the airlines losing money hand over fist right now, any normal business would have let staff go immediately, and the one airline alone employs (and gives benefits like health and 401k) to some 100k people. The lass I was speaking to expected to be out of work in October, when the deal expires unless either another deal is struck or things recover.
Further, if the business does fold, it's not like a local small business. If my local hobby shop goes out of business, it's a disaster for one man, and economically, it's not unreasonable for another person to open another to fill in the demand. If a major airline folds, not only are the remainder of the 100k people suffering disaster, but it's a little more difficult for a new major network to start up which is a long-term problem, especially given how dependent the US is on air travel.



For a moment, I thought you meant the power tool.

I wonder if big businesses will have to keep capital on hand like bank do. It seems ridiculous for a business to be in a position to simply demand whatever tax payer money they want. It happened in 2008 all across the world and now (at least in the EU, no idea about elsewhere) banks have to hold capital and justify the amount. There are a number of recovery plans to ensure (if they work) that it never results in tax payers simply paying the bill for business mistakes.

I doubt it. We will see..

TomOnBoard

Penn wrote: »

Yeah. Odd how the same investigation doesn't seem all that interested in Sen. Kelly Loeffler, another GOP Senator who did the same thing but has had almost nothing but praise for Trump. Head scratcher....

Well, we don' t know that they're not interested in Loeffler yet. We do know that Burr's been the prime target of this investigation as not only was he accused of insider selling himself, but he was also accused of telling some highly placed donors about what was coming down the tracks from the coeonavirus. Furthermore, it's been alleged that a relative also made trades at the same time as Burr himself that got them out of sectors like hotels etc. Things are not going well for Burr within the Party. Matt Gaetz seemed to throw shade at him on Wednesday night, so I'd say that means that they're probably cutting him loose. He won't have many friends on the more rabid fringe of the GOP as a result of his treatment of the Senate Intelligence Committee investigation into 'Rushar, Rushar, Rushar". I think I saw him being referred to a a RINO recently by one of the more stalwart disciples of Genghis Khan.

Diane Feinstein was also questioned by the FBI it seems, although nothing was seized. I haven't seen any report on Loeffler.

Manic Moran

Christy42 wrote: »

I wonder if big businesses will have to keep capital on hand like bank do. It seems ridiculous for a business to be in a position to simply demand whatever tax payer money they want. It happened in 2008 all across the world and now (at least in the EU, no idea about elsewhere) banks have to hold capital and justify the amount. There are a number of recovery plans to ensure (if they work) that it never results in tax payers simply paying the bill for business mistakes.

I doubt it. We will see..

I can't imagine many companies of any industry will have that much capital on-hand. As of early March, United had some $8bn cash in the bank account which is not a small chunk of change and is equivalent to some three and a half years' worth of profit. However, we're not talking about 6 months' worth of "20% below revenue expectations" here, or the like, where the company just needs to cover the shortfall. We're talking about months of "Basically no revenue at all" followed by many more months of "a percentage below revenue expectations". United's expenses in 2019 were $3.3bn a month. With some 90% of the flights down, certainly the costs are lower, but the fuel they're not burning is only some 10-15% of normal operating cost.

hotmail.com

banie01 wrote: »

Fox news cut from Dr Richard Bright's testimony in Congress today to cover a discussion about fúcking Baseball!

The trope that hotmail.com subscribes that Fox is "entertainment" would be okay, if it labelled itself as Fox Infotainment, they don't do that tho.

They pointedy and deliberately label themselves Fox News.

As for the spiel about the on-screen graphics.
CNN's whilst not perfect are usually detailed and factual. Further to that, CNN present their editorial comment as precisely that.

Fox tends to editorialise to a massive degree rather share facts or actual insight.

The entire US TV news paradigm is quite partisan, that many in the US honestly seem to have lost the ability to assess credibility and veracity of their news sources is a symptom of US educational malaise and a race to cater for the lowest common denominator of their electorate.

Just on the "trope" charge. I never said Fox News was entertainment. Another poster said that.

Even the term trope is a emotionally charged term.

Could you not say opinion?

People probably need to stop watching so much rubbish on American news channels, including CNN.

hotmail.com

duploelabs wrote: »

I'm still waiting for you to enforce your point regarding Fox know they're 'not being taken seriously'

I don't take it seriously? Do you?

Igotadose

aloyisious wrote: »

Absolutely. He'll have to have identified the other people he conversed with both in recorded call and deals, and on any written records he kept, with brokers so his investments were secure. The named brokers also have to keep a record of their days dealings on the market so they can tally-up at days end, leaving more avenues for the FBI to follow when they come calling to ask about the senator's tradings. He's hardly the only one in the senate using brokers. I assume Mitch will have a worthy nominee to fill the vacancy.

Although Mitch might be involved, if the Senators in question get kicked out, the Governors of their states choose their replacements and then there's a special election. (This is probably state-specific).

Burr is from North Carolina, Governor is Roy Cooper, a Democrat. How interesting if he chooses Burr's replacement.

Loeffler's governor is Brian the vote-suppressor Kemp who squeaked by in his election vs. Stacey Abrams. Imagine if two GOP senators got replaced by Democratic governors with Democrats.... Instead, probably just one.

aloyisious

The Trump family lost another appeals court case yesterday, this one involving the family hotel in Washington and the president versus the Attorneys General of Maryland and DC concerning the emoluments clause blocking serving presidents having conflicting interests while in office. The 4th circuit court of appeals decided, in a 9 - 6 ruling, not to throw out the case against the president. I don't know what his lawyer produced in court to bolster his clients case but assume it would have included something paper-wise to prove he had distanced himself from the family business, unless he was relying on the presidents word alone against whatever the two A.G's had produced in both the 1st and appeal courts cases.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/497721-appeals-court-rules-against-trump-on-emoluments-clause

aloyisious

Igotadose wrote: »

Although Mitch might be involved, if the Senators in question get kicked out, the Governors of their states choose their replacements and then there's a special election. (This is probably state-specific).

Burr is from North Carolina, Governor is Roy Cooper, a Democrat. How interesting if he chooses Burr's replacement.

Loeffler's governor is Brian the vote-suppressor Kemp who squeaked by in his election vs. Stacey Abrams. Imagine if two GOP senators got replaced by Democratic governors with Democrats.... Instead, probably just one.

Sorry, I meant heading the Senate Int committee thought the Gov point is worth keeping in mind :-)

aloyisious

The GOP definitely wont like Texas Appeal court's decision backing mail-in vote requests from voters fearful of Covid-19. Report filed 12 minutes ago.. https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/497852-texas-appeals-court-backs-expanding-mail-in-voting-to-those-fearful

Looking at this decision, it's worth looking at Texas's rising number of Covid-19 cases, Tuesday having 1,179 alone, with 5 consecutive days of 1,000 + new cases so far in May [only two days with less than 1,000 new reported cases]. https://thehill.com/homenews/coronavirus-report/497509-texas-sees-1000-new-coronavirus-cases-for-5-days-in-a-row