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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)
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listermint wrote: »You appear to have very low ideals.
Note just to be clear on what im saying. Trump evidently has major concerns in the tax department. We already have vast arrays of evidence of him undereporting vast swades of his property empire.
He has golf clubs across the world with extremely low visitors yet the money keeps coming into these businesses.
The mother load of evasion on all levels and sources of money would be something that should be definitely followed up on.
And for me ive no interest in paying a woman for her affections, If you subscribe to that ideal, well then thats for you.
He is not even my country I did not have a chance to vote or not vote for him.
You appear to have moral issues with Trump I am not sure if you had the same moral issues about Bill Clinton (the obvious) or Hillary Clinton (donations from the Gulf/Saudis etc etc) ?Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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gormdubhgorm wrote: »So if your post is true has done even better despite all this he still got elected! As for the jealously part.
Do you not think your own post sounds a bit envious/jealous? Trying to take the Trump's down a notch or two. To make yourself feel better about the scenario of Trump leading the most powerful nation on earth?
Yes, he promised everything, he promised change and delivered on nothing.
The people will decide if he’s delivered in November.
I pity him, nothing more.0 -
extra gravy wrote: »on the back of not being able to string full sentences together.
Fixed your post.
Trump may not be a flowery speaker, but he is effective.
It is the reason why Martin Mansergh never became Taoiseach flowery language but would never engage with electorate. More of the behind the scenes negotiator rather than a front man.
Trump is the ultimate front man.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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[gormdubhgorm wrote: »I am sure if he had, it would have being routed out long ago?I mean Trump is living the dream an 'anti establishment' billionaire now POTUS married a supermodel 24 years his junior.
Granted, he had a comfortable upbringing. But despite all the gaffes (weird photo ops with bibles and pussy grabbing statements) along the way he has shown his innate ability to speak to the electorate. Enough to get him in power.
He has not threatened global domination like Hitler/Stalin - like many have compared him to. Instead he favours isolationist polices for America.
To call him 'isolationist' is absolutely false, and given how prevalent the above has been in the news over his presidency I'm struggling to believe you could believe it yourself.I think when it comes down to it many virulent anti-Trump people still just can't believe he got elected. But if thier side were half as clued in to thier electorate as Trump is. They would have got elected instead.Also, I think a lot of it is jealously looking at a slightly overweight awkward 70 plus fella with an odd hairstyle, but is worth billions. Married to a former supermodel. And all this on the back of not being a flowery orator at all.
If he has an ego at this stage I think he is entitled to it!0 -
Carfacemandog wrote: »I wouldn't attribute disgust at policies like separating children from their parents to put them in concentration camps, stripping sick Americans of their healthcare t ogive tax cuts to billionaires, or calling for military action against your own citizens 'jealousy', and frankly if that is what you amount it to, it says an awful lot about your values or lack thereof.
Again, I did not vote in the USA election one way or another. Trying to clonflate 'my values' from a single post on boards.ie is hyperbolic in the extreme. And takes away from any valid points you might have had subsequent to the statement.
Also many voters in the USA do not want an Irish or UK style health system, otherwise it would have been changed generations ago.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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Naturally this old rally clip is coming back around timely for a haunt of current events. Perhaps we will see this in a large number of campaign ads.
Trump mocks police brutality victims pleading “I can’t breathe”
https://twitter.com/junotheson/status/1267325223264649216?s=210 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »Again, I did not vote in the USA election one way or another. Trying to clonflate 'my values' from a single post on boards.ie is hyperbolic in the extreme. And takes away from any valid points you might have had subsequent to the statement.
And the fact is, you did amount the issues that as you put them, "virulent anti-Trump people" have with him to, and I am quoting you here, "a lot of it is jealously" over his inherited wealth and his wife.
If you are going to make a frankly stupid argument like that, at least try to defend the points you made and not something else entirely.Also many voters in the USA do not want an Irish or UK style health system, otherwise it would have been changed generations ago.
When you have as poor an education system as so much of the US does (national averages in different areas such as maths, and literacy dropping from 5-10th in the world 20 years ago to 30th-40th today), it's in redobly easy to get them to vote against what they explicitly say they want - in this case, better and universal public healthcare.0 -
Carfacemandog wrote: »The fact that you need to defend yourself with a straw man saysa lot. At no point did I say you voted for Trump, nor that you even had the capacity to vote inthe US election. What I said was that if you amount issues with policies like those I pointed out to simply jealousy, it says a lot about your values.
Man of straw argument?
Surely you have done exactly that by bringing up 'values'.
But since you want to labour on the point this is exactly the problem with the anti-Trump brigade. They are smug and view anyone who does not think exactly like them or voted Trump as having 'no values'.The fact is, you did amount the issues that as you put them, "virulent anti-Trump people" have with him to, and I am quoting you here, "a lot of it is jealously" over his inherited wealth and his wife.
If you are going to make a frankly stupid argument like that, at least try to defend the points you made and not something else entirely.
That is just my opinion. Because a lot people who belittle Trump view themselves as more intelligent and cultured than him. Yet he landed the top job in America. Played the game and won. Arguably one of the greatest upsets in the history of American politics.The majority of Americans do want universal public healthcare, time and again polls show this. The main problems they have with it are centered around fear mongering that it have to mean abolishing private healthcare (which a town here in Ireland can tell you it doesn't) and a slavish, cult like adherence to their political party. This is why approval for the ACA routinely ranks much higher than approval for "Obamacare" (which is literally just a nickname for the ACA).
Rubbish if the majority of Americans wanted universal public healthcare, it would change fairly sharpish. They don't simple as that.When you have as poor an education system as so much of the US does (national averages in different areas such as maths, and literacy dropping from 5-10th in the world 20 years ago to 30th-40th today), it's in redobly easy to get them to vote against what they explicitly say they want - in this case, better and universal public healthcare.
So now you are calling the American electorate thick, and not as smart as you are? It brings me nicely back to my initial point on smugness. Your post has gone full circle.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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60% of Americans say healthcare is government responsibly so that's majority https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-continue-to-say-ensuring-health-care-coverage-is-governments-responsibility/
It wouldn't matter if 100% wanted it because as long as the Republicans and some Democrats are getting huge donations from giant corporations and mega rich individuals opposed to universal health care it will never happen. It's not the people that have the final say, it's Mitch McConnell and the like.. same with gun control. As long as the NRA have bought and paid for every Republican politician and some Democrats nothing will be done to stop the blight of mass shootings in the US.0 -
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gormdubhgorm wrote: »Man of straw argument?
Surely you have done exactly that by bringing up 'values'.
But since you want to labour on the point this is exactly the problem with the anti-Trump brigade. They are smug and view anyone who does not think exactly like them or voted Trump as having 'no values'.
That is just my opinion. Because a lot people who belittle Trump view themselves as more intelligent and cultured than him. Yet he landed the top job in America. Played the game and won. Arguably one of the greatest upsets in the history of American politics.
Rubbish if the majority of Americans wanted universal public healthcare, it would change fairly sharpish. They don't simple as that.
So now you are calling the American electorate thick, and not as smart as you are? It brings me nicely back to my initial point on smugness. Your post has gone full circle.
Not exactly.
There is broad universal support among everyone except Republicans (surprise surprise)
So - The Republicans filibuster and poison the well around the conversation with things like "Death Panels" and all the other "it's a communist plot" stupidity to ensure that the massive healthcare companies that fund them can keep making utterly outrageous amounts of money for basic healthcare.0 -
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gormdubhgorm wrote: »Man of straw argument?
Surely you have done exactly that by bringing up 'values'.
But since you want to labour on the point this is exactly the problem with the anti-Trump brigade. They are smug and view anyone who does not think exactly like them or voted Trump as having 'no values'.
Trump has no values, except loyalty, and by that I mean loyalty to him, he has cheated on all his wives, over 18000 provable lies and counting, multiple sexual assault allegations, trips on the lolita express and actually admitting to doing it to women, bullied,swindled and stole people out of money. There is literally a tweet he has said against everything he has done in his presidency. He has zero morals, so if support him knowing all this, then what does it say about you
See above
That is just my opinion. Because a lot people who belittle Trump view themselves as more intelligent and cultured than him. Yet he landed the top job in America. Played the game and won. Arguably one of the greatest upsets in the history of American politics.
My dog is vastly more intelligent than him, if I gave my dog 400 million to start off like Trump, he would have at least that at the end of the day. My dog takes simple instructions and learns from his mistakes. Trump can do neither of those things and in order to stay awake in briefings his name has to be inserted every few minutes so it holds his attention, this is well documented. Given that everyone who posts here is vastly more intelligent than my dog, they have good reason to feel smarter than Trump
Rubbish if the majority of Americans wanted universal public healthcare, it would change fairly sharpish. They don't simple as that.
As stated before a good 50+% when polled want universal care, the rest have been brainwashed to believe it is communism and the next step is working in the gulags. The pharmaceutical companies and health industry don't want it so the lobbyists push against it so they can keep their supernormal profits. That is why the Irish cop who got shot in a mugging in New York a few years ago had a bill of over a million dollars and had to crowd fund his care. Madness
So now you are calling the American electorate thick, and not as smart as you are? It brings me nicely back to my initial point on smugness. Your post has gone full circle.
This has been proven many times, the education system is broken and Fox News is the largest news network, case and point
see above0 -
rossie1977 wrote: »60% of Americans say healthcare is government responsibly so that's majority https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-continue-to-say-ensuring-health-care-coverage-is-governments-responsibility/
It wouldn't matter if 100% wanted it because as long as the Republicans and some Democrats are getting huge donations from giant corporations and mega rich individuals opposed to universal health care it will never happen. It's not the people that have the final say, it's Mitch McConnell and the like.. same with gun control. As long as the NRA have bought and paid for every Republican politician and some Democrats nothing will be done to stop the blight of mass shootings in the US.
It is much cheaper to buy a congressman or senator then it is to run for office yourself. Koch brothers and the likes learned this years ago.0 -
duploelabs wrote: »So being a military man yourself, what do you make of Mattis' comments?
His statements, as with those of Mullen and Esper, are reasonable. As I mentioned earlier, I am not a fan of the way Trump referenced the Insurrection Act and I agree with them that we are not yet in a position where the use of federal troops is required. As local evidence, I'm still here, typing on Boards, I'm not in uniform supporting Texas DPS. Obviously we have not yet run out of State resources. I also agree that Trump has done not one whit to attempt to unite the country or address the cause of the discontent.
The option needs to be available, yes. It needs to be a pull request from the States, though, not a push from D.C.
Side tangent, referencing earlier discussion about gun owners, this one covers some of the more extreme elements (Those who identify as "Boogaloos").
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/boogaloo-extremist-protests-invs/index.html
"While there are pockets of white supremacist Boogaloos, the younger and bigger groups are generally not. [...] While there are Boogaloos that support police, the younger and bigger groups detest them. While there are Boogaloos that want to discredit protests angry at the murder of a black man, there are younger Boogaloos that are incensed by the murder and want to join the protests."0 -
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gormdubhgorm wrote: »Rubbish if the majority of Americans wanted universal public healthcare, it would change fairly sharpish. They don't simple as that.
69% of Americans is a majority right?
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all
:rolleyes:0 -
timsey tiger wrote: »
Trump mocks police brutality victims pleading “I can’t breathe”
That's horrific and disturbing, esp. the way it loops.
I think the full clip shows he was mocking Bloomberg from during one of the debates.
Edit: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-trump-cantbreathe/fact-check-trump-was-mocking-bloomberg-not-floyd-in-i-cant-breathe-clip-idUSKBN23A2XA0 -
69% of Americans is a majority right?
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all
:rolleyes:
Yeah, all you need to know about health care lobbying in the US is that the nation pays 3 times the developed world average for health care but has lower life expentecy.
The country is being fleeced by a private health industry that has bought political favours.0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »Man of straw argument?
Surely you have done exactly that by bringing up 'values'.
But since you want to labour on the point this is exactly the problem with the anti-Trump brigade. They are smug and view anyone who does not think exactly like them or voted Trump as having 'no values'.
You responding by claiming I accused you of voting for Trump rather than addressing the points made, that is a straw man.
"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."
I have yet to be convinced by anyone that separating children from their parents to put them in concentration camps, that removing healthcare from Americans to give billionaires a tax cut, or that pushing to use the military against your own populace can in any way be viewed as having good values or morals. In no small part this is because rarely do they actually defend these, and so frequently are just happy to just ignore the facts.That is just my opinion. Because a lot people who belittle Trump view themselves as more intelligent and cultured than him. Yet he landed the top job in America. Played the game and won. Arguably one of the greatest upsets in the history of American politics.
But when you do and instead try to paint it as 'jealousy' you're really not being very convincing - at all. It just shows a complete inability and unwillingness to tackle the clear and obvious reasons for disapproval of him that have been laid right in front of you; a wilful attempt to ignore the facts.Rubbish if the majority of Americans wanted universal public healthcare, it would change fairly sharpish. They don't simple as that.So now you are calling the American electorate thick, and not as smart as you are? It brings me nicely back to my initial point on smugness. Your post has gone full circle.
As the saying Republicans are so fond of goes, "facts don't care about your feelings" - https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/
What is particularly worrying about the above is that there is no denying the US has some of the very, very best schools in the world (for the wealthy, of course) bringing up the average significantly, meaning many of the poorer rural and inner city schools are considerably worse than even those rankings would make out.0 -
What can you expect when you have at least one state that has a disclaimer in science school books about the theory of evolution?0
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What can you expect when you have at least one state that has a disclaimer in science school books about the theory of evolution?
I'm sure those gender studies courses etc based on pure pseudo science are shooting the mathematics scores right up too. If anything they're producing a healthy dose of anarchists and professional protesters.0 -
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Naturally this old rally clip is coming back around timely for a haunt of current events. Perhaps we will see this in a large number of campaign ads.
Trump mocks police brutality victims pleading “I can’t breathe”
https://twitter.com/junotheson/status/1267325223264649216?s=21
Definitely a horrible look alright.
However, I think he was mocking Bloomberg and Klobuchar at the time, in the day after one of the Dem debates.
That said, it's a dreadful characterisation to use anyway, and it's one of his Golden Oldies, usually coupled with the insult 's/he choked' if someone fails to meet expectations in public. He used it on Romney also in the past.
Giving his lack of empathy, he would never see how ppl would see it as being totally inappropriate, even before Floyd's murder. Eric Garner's death in New York ought to have removed 'I can't Breathe' from his script once and for all!0 -
peddlelies wrote: »I'm sure those gender studies courses etc based on pure pseudo science are shooting the mathematics scores right up too. If anything they're producing a healthy dose of anarchists.
Maybe so, but I couldn't give a fiddlers about them. The poster posted an infographic which specifically pertained to (among other subjects) science. The infographic is from surveys done on high school kids. Science is a core subject at high school. Gender studies is not. There is at least one state which puts a disclaimer in science books regarding evolution, thus undermining science.
Have you anything to say about that, or are you going to continue with your straw man?0 -
peddlelies wrote: »I'm sure those gender studies courses etc based on pure pseudo science are shooting the mathematics scores right up too. If anything they're producing a healthy dose of anarchists.
Also, which countries or states are you referring to that teach gender studies on a primary or secondary level? I had always thought it was a third level type of course.
I'm pretty sure Pedro k is referring to the Alabama state curriculum hence why I'm not asking them, just to be clear.0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »That is just projection and a nice soundbite 'because they knew'.
You could easily argue the opposite Trump supporters voted for Trump 'because they knew'. He aligned with what the electorate wanted.
Similar to how Danny Healey Rae gets slagged off everywhere outside Kerry.
He has made his views perfectly clear and got elected.
I mean Trump may act like an eejit and sound like an eejit a lot of the time but he engages with his electorate. That is what any politician does.
But you cannot deny that there has been a lot of twisting of Trumps statements for example. His comments on the wall and Mexicans. Many in the anti Trump camp say he is anti_Mexican and called them all rapists. He did not. He said that it was not the best and brightest that was getting into America. It was the murderers and rapists.
It is all about projection on who said a comment.
And if that does not suit the narrative the comment is changed.
Trump surrogates spent all of the 2016 election cycle saying that Trump wasn't being literal when he spoke about things, be it the wall, be it religious travel ban, be it gutting agencies/guardrails.
They dont have that luxury in 2020 as everyone has seen his record. The moderate republicans and independents now know exactly what they are voting for0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »What is normal for you though is abnormal for someone else.
62,984,828 million people voted for Trump that is 46.1% of the American voting electorate. Reading this thread you would swear it was just a few headcases.
Were Hillary supporters normal it could be argued she had a cult following. Remember the tears from her supporters on election night.
I laughed at them at the time, thinking Trump wouldn't be that bad.
Turns out they were way ahead of us.0 -
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Not exactly.
There is broad universal support among everyone except Republicans (surprise surprise)
So - The Republicans filibuster and poison the well around the conversation with things like "Death Panels" and all the other "it's a communist plot" stupidity to ensure that the massive healthcare companies that fund them can keep making utterly outrageous amounts of money for basic healthcare.
I feel dirty going agreeing with the other poster but those poll numbers don't hold up when you dig in.
As a concept national health care has broad support in polls but it falls away when you bring in the realities of it, lose their current healthcare plan, lose your current doctor, have to wait longer for treatment.
Like most things, the population want all the positives but dont want to give up anything0 -
Trump surrogates spent all of the 2016 election cycle saying that Trump wasn't being literal when he spoke about things, be it the wall, be it religious travel ban, be it gutting agencies/guardrails.
They dont have that luxury in 2020 as everyone has seen his record. The moderate republicans and independents now know exactly what they are voting for
He is building a wall though, they are finally right, but it is around the White House, more wall going around there today than on the boarder. Once again, imagine if Obama did that, they would have to do cpr on the likes of Laura Ingram and Limbaugh. Seen some on twitter post it is great symbolism for the end of his presidency, ranting from a bunker in the dark surround by a massive wall.0 -
Naturally this old rally clip is coming back around timely for a haunt of current events. Perhaps we will see this in a large number of campaign ads.
Trump mocks police brutality victims pleading “I can’t breathe”
https://twitter.com/junotheson/status/1267325223264649216?s=21
He was mocking Bloomberg in that clip.0 -
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I feel dirty going agreeing with the other poster but those poll numbers don't hold up when you dig in.
As a concept national health care has broad support in polls but it falls away when you bring in the realities of it, lose their current healthcare plan, lose your current doctor, have to wait longer for treatment.
Like most things, the population want all the positives but dont want to give up anything0
This discussion has been closed.
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