Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

abff

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Poor auld Trump can't win it seems.

There’s a reason why most people always assume the worst when it comes to Trump. In fact, there are thousands of reasons.

Almost everything Trump has done, said or tweeted since he started running for president is utterly deplorable and most people are just bewildered that anyone who has observed all the above would feel that he is worthy of any sympathy or ‘benefit of the doubt’.

MadYaker

He’s surely going to have to cancel the rallies?

Itssoeasy

MadYaker wrote: »

He’s surely going to have to cancel the rallies?

He should but he won't.

Christy42

MadYaker wrote: »

He’s surely going to have to cancel the rallies?

Sure Trump is covered legally anyway so what does he care?

moon2

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have already went through in detail why calling Trump - Hitler or a Nazi was ridiculous and gave various examples of same. In a long post..

I'm not sure how your claim of "I wrote a good post once" addresses the point I raised. You are making fallacious arguments.

TomOnBoard

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have already went through in detail why calling Trump - Hitler or a Nazi was ridiculous and gave various examples of same. In a long post.

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For me it was waaay too long and seemed like an exercise in deflection, obfuscation, irrelevance regarding the points originally discussed, and disagreeable in style as well as substance.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But it appears to have either gone over people's heads, or it was just ignored as it did not align with the majority viewpoint on this thread.

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I won't presume to speak.for other posters as you are doing so I'll speak for myself alone: the post was a waste of your time, and I regretted that it was also a waste of mine.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It was telling that many liked the long post I responded to without even questioning it's content. Some even bookmarked it!

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I liked the post to which you responded, as it was well presented, factually corect, suitably toned, historically accurate and well-reasoned, as were many of the related posts around that time. I found other posts that only seemed to be contrarian for contrarian sake to be demeaning and objectionable and largely ignorant of the historical landscape of the entire period of the Third Reich, and the nuances of how fascism developed during the period, the creeping evil that it was, and it's comparability with creeping evil, erosion of democracy and growth of naked kleptocracy that characterises Trump's Presidency and Moscow Mitch's 'Grim Reaper' control of the legislative branch.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

However, most of the post was based on the article of one individual Jay Willis who compared Trump to Hitler.

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A well presented piece, IIRC.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Upon researching Willis I learnt he was prone to sensationalism and hyperbolic statements as he did on the Barton v Barr case


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When your posts characterise so many opinions and statements as ' hyperbolic ' and/or 'hysterical', it lessens the impact of the use of such terms. When accusing others of hyperbole and/or hysterics, I often find that 'less is more'.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I then pointed out the flaws in the Hitler comparison numerous examples. It merely was dismissed as 'whataboutism'.

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For me, It seemed to be many other things in addition to 'whataboutism', and added very little of value to the discussion. But, hey ho, you're entitled to your own opinion and interpretation off the facts... As is everyone else.. That's what healthy debate and discussion is all about.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But I did find it a fascinating study of the human condition, and the effect Trump has on some people in this thread - and worldwide.

At last, we fully agree on something!

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Back on topic please folks. Far too many posts that are simply bickering between posters and not discussing the topic at hand.

High standards of debate and quality posts / threads are required. Repeated one liner, low quality style posts will result in a ban. Threads (and posts) that are not based on serious and legitimate Political discussion will be deleted without warning.

gormdubhgorm

aloyisious wrote: »

Whatever about other posters views of Trump here, what characteristics or saving graces of Trump have you noted during your look at his record as President that you think may have been good for the presidency and the U.S both, seeing as he is running for re-election? I see from what you've posted that you don't generally approve of him.

The only saving grace I have noticed with Trump is his self confidence and self belief in himself. He ploughs on regardless. But when he is negatively critised he seems to take personal offence. No I don't think he has been good for America is the answer.

If I did have a vote in the 2016 election in the USA, I would not have voted for Hillary or Trump because I thought both were terrible candidates for various reasons. America needs a strong 3rd party in my opinion. But the consensus seems to be that voting for any party besides Republican/Democrat is a wasted vote.

duploelabs

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The only saving grace I have noticed with Trump is his self confidence and self belief in himself. He ploughs on regardless. But when he is negativity critised he seems to take personal offence. No I don't think he has been good for America is the answer. .

Where this maybe be a good idea to a leader who is adroit at listening to advisors, it just promotes megalomaniac behaviour when it comes to the narcissistic ego of Trump

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

I've removed a few posts and we'll start issuing sanctions if people don't heed the charter. The topic of the thread is the presidency of Donald Trump. Serious and legitimate discussion of that does not include saying someone else's posts made you lose the will to live or that the forum is an echo chamber.

aloyisious

Igotadose wrote: »

the 'Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone' is laughable. I've friends living in the area - I lived outside Seattle for 10+ years prior to coming to Ireland. I think the best description of the place is from a local friend - it's a 'giant outdoor James Taylor concert.' About the worst thing happening there might be dope smoking during a drum circle. Trump's just stirring sh1te and there's no love lost between him and the governor or mayor (who tweeted he should just hide in his bunker and shut up]

Trump's tweeted about the Seattle Autonomous Zone calling its inhabitants "domestic terrorists". Nothing like starting the week by inserting a stick and stirring the honeypot. I know there's been mention on the net [from trouble-makers of one sort or another] of "good people" opposed to antifa-types heading to Seattle to sort out it s problem so it's probably them Trump was messaging to.

I didn't know it existed until you mentioned it in your's above. I'm wondering if it's like some European zones, say Christiania in Denmark or the short-lived Limerick Soviet or Haight-Ashbury in the U.S, a self declared independent zone within a city or urban area. Can you PM me links to the zone so I can look at its history please.

abff

aloyisious wrote: »

I didn't know it existed until you mentioned it in your's above. I'm wondering if it's like some European zones, say Christiania in Denmark or the short-lived Limerick Soviet or Haight-Ashbury in the U.S, a self declared independent zone within a city or urban area. Can you PM me links to the zone so I can look at its history please.

Here’s a Wikipedia page about it. As you will see from the article, it was established on June 8th.

frag420

Now this could be interesting....

The Daily Beast revealed on Monday that Mary Trump, the daughter of Donald Trump’s late brother Fred Trump Jr, will release Too Much and Never Enough with Simon & Schuster on 11 August.

The timing, a few weeks before this year’s Republican National Convention, means any revelations could be particularly damaging for the president. The book is expected to lay out how she was a primary source for the New York Times’ Pulitzer-winning investigation into Donald Trump’s “dubious tax schemes” during the 1990s and will share “harrowing and salacious” stories about the US president.

It will also showcase conversations between Mary Trump and Donald Trump’s sister, retired federal judge Maryanne Trump Barry, in which Trump Barry shares “intimate and damning thoughts” about her brother, claimed the website.


No doubt his family are lefty libtards out to blacken his name!!

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jun/15/donald-trump-niece-book-about-her-family-mary-too-much-and-never-enough

Itssoeasy

frag420 wrote: »

Now this could be interesting....

The Daily Beast revealed on Monday that Mary Trump, the daughter of Donald Trump’s late brother Fred Trump Jr, will release Too Much and Never Enough with Simon & Schuster on 11 August.

The timing, a few weeks before this year’s Republican National Convention, means any revelations could be particularly damaging for the president. The book is expected to lay out how she was a primary source for the New York Times’ Pulitzer-winning investigation into Donald Trump’s “dubious tax schemes” during the 1990s and will share “harrowing and salacious” stories about the US president.

It will also showcase conversations between Mary Trump and Donald Trump’s sister, retired federal judge Maryanne Trump Barry, in which Trump Barry shares “intimate and damning thoughts” about her brother, claimed the website.


No doubt his family are lefty libtards out to blacken his name!!

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jun/15/donald-trump-niece-book-about-her-family-mary-too-much-and-never-enough

Can he rage tweet against his own family ? I take it this niece is financially secure from her fathers part of the trump fortune and Donald trump has no say over it ? This will be interesting.

pixelburp

If Mary Trump's personal history isn't spotless, her name will be dragged through the mud by Trump, Fox and all points in between. Know nothing of her or her personality but it could get very ugly for her.

No doubt there will be some accidentally deliberate leaks of various talking points from the book in the lead up. Could be interesting but honestly at this stage what left is there to shock or outrage? If one's mind isn't made up by now - not least by the vulgarity of Trump's own words & deeds - it won't be swayed by a salacious tell-all.

gormdubhgorm

Carfacemandog wrote: »

We've been through this before, and you were entirely unable to refute how Trump is very comparable to the nazis (as his own ex secretary of defense, who Trump himself appointed, himself said).

You need to actually read my reply to your long copy and paste. I feel I don't have to repeat myself. I refuted the point by explaining patiently and in detail why comparing Trump to Hitler/Nazi's is an association fallacy. Also known as Reductio ad Hitlerum https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1445423


The whole article you copied and pasted from Jay Willis is an association fallacy - guilt by association. Willis has also written other articles of a sensationalist nature with hyperbolic terminology.


I even shone light on the hysterical nature of this author who you copied and pasted from. Jay Willis who is prone to sensationalist, hysterical, and very subjective opinion pieces, example about the Barton Barr case -

https://immigrationcourtside.com/2020/04/30/barton-v-barr-j-r-five-jettisons-principles-fudges-facts-in-pathetic-attempt-to-avoid-moral-responsibility-for-advancing-trump-administrations-white-nationalist-anti-im/

BARTON v. BARR: “J.R. Five” Jettisons Principles, Fudges Facts In Pathetic Attempt To Avoid Moral Responsibility For Advancing Trump Administration’s White Nationalist, Anti-Immigrant Agenda — Their Treachery & Cowardice Will NOT be Forgotten!

If the limit of your reply is that 'we covered this before'. It demonstrates you completely missed my points, and/or have not understood them, or are being deliberately obtuse. It is up to you I suppose.
I see it maybe is pointless trying to engage with you any further. If it is any of the above.

If you do not have enough courtesy to properly look at my points that is up to you.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113730884&postcount=9090

Anyway I will leave it there. It is with some irony that the 't' button is broken on my pc and I have to fix it. Resorted to copying and pasting t's.

Nody

Oh dear; Trump's government just lost in the Supreme court even with stacked judges; expect twitter rant about enemies of the people etc. to come...

The landmark ruling will extend protections to millions of workers nationwide and is a defeat for the Trump administration, which argued that Title VII of the Civil Rights Act that bars discrimination based on sex did not extend to claims of gender identity and sexual orientation. The 6-3 opinion was written by Justice Neil Gorsuch and joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and the court's four liberal justices.

"An employer who fires an individual for being homosexual or transgender fires that person for traits or actions it would not have questioned in members of a different sex. Sex plays a necessary and undisguisable role in the decision, exactly what Title VII forbids," Gorsuch wrote.

Leroy42

Nody wrote: »

Oh dear; Trump's government just lost in the Supreme court even with stacked judges; expect twitter rant about enemies of the people etc. to come...

TBH, it is crazy that it ever got that far. What was their argument that it didn't constitute discrimination?

Nody

Leroy42 wrote: »

TBH, it is crazy that it ever got that far. What was their argument that it didn't constitute discrimination?

Basically that you can only discriminate for being male/female and they were fired not due to their sex (male/female) but for being gay/transgender and hence not fired because of their sex (male/female) (i.e. if the guy had joined a normal baseball league rather than a gay one he'd be allowed to remain).

The decision dealt with three cases. In one, Clayton County, Georgia employee Gerald Bostock was fired from his job as a child welfare advocate for conduct “unbecoming” a county employee soon after he joined a gay softball league. In another, New York skydiving instructor Donald Zarda was fired days after mentioning he was gay, and in a third, Michigan funeral home worker Aimee Stephens was fired after she told her employer that she would be identifying as a woman six years into her employment.

In all three situations, the employers admitted that they fired the workers for being gay or transgender, but they argued that this did not violate Title VII. The Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals, which heard Bostock’s case, agreed with this view. The Second and Sixth Circuits, which heard Varda’s and Stephens’ cases, respectively, ruled differently.

The court in turn:

The court justified their inclusion of sexual orientation and gender identity under Title VII by focusing on the law’s language, which prohibits discrimination “because of” sex, stating that as long as sex is a factor the discrimination, that is enough to trigger Title VII.

All taken from the this Fox article which is purely factual for a change.

TomOnBoard

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I take it this niece is financially secure from her fathers part of the trump fortune and Donald trump has no say over it ?

I read that there's long been a war between Mary/Fred III and the Donald Trump branch of the Trump dynasty, resulting from legal action taken by Mary/Fred III some years ago around how poorly they did from Fred I's will. This was ultimately settled, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's been an ongoing resentment that's now being re-opened.

The daughter, Mary, has also previously accused The Donald of not doing enough to help her father through alcoholism, which ultimate!y allegedly contributed to his early death. I'm sure that her Aunty Mary (Barry) won't be very happy with being quoted by her niece in any forthcoming book especially as The Donald seemed to have enhanced her own share of Fred I's estate through very dodgy tax schemes after Fred's death. I suspect young Mary probably has tapes...

Palace intrigue, wha?

aloyisious

Nody wrote: »

Oh dear; Trump's government just lost in the Supreme court even with stacked judges; expect twitter rant about enemies of the people etc. to come...

It would be nice if it was a premonition of what will happen to Betty de Vos new revisionist instructions on how Colleges and schools are to treat Transgender Pupils in their care.

namloc1980

Nody wrote: »

Oh dear; Trump's government just lost in the Supreme court even with stacked judges; expect twitter rant about enemies of the people etc. to come...

The majority opinion being written by Neil Gorsuch is extra sweet :pac:

Itssoeasy

Leroy42 wrote: »

TBH, it is crazy that it ever got that far. What was their argument that it didn't constitute discrimination?

I was shocked that just being gay could get you fired in the USA in the 21st century which thankfully is no more. Transgender I could see why that would have needed to be fixed in law but I was under the impression(falsely) that being gay would have fallen under the civil rights act if not explicitly, it would surely have seemed a logical extension.

Itssoeasy

Also, the FDA have pulled its emergency use of hydroxychloroquine for covid-19 due to risks and lack of apparent benifit.

Not a great Monday for the trump administration, we have the book by his niece, the LGBTQ ruling by the Supreme Court, and now trumps wonder drug has had its use withdrawn.

Itssoeasy

pixelburp wrote: »

If Mary Trump's personal history isn't spotless, her name will be dragged through the mud by Trump, Fox and all points in between. Know nothing of her or her personality but it could get very ugly for her.

No doubt there will be some accidentally deliberate leaks of various talking points from the book in the lead up. Could be interesting but honestly at this stage what left is there to shock or outrage? If one's mind isn't made up by now - not least by the vulgarity of Trump's own words & deeds - it won't be swayed by a salacious tell-all.

Even if her personal history is spotless would it matter to trump and his allies ? Three and a half year suggests the answer is no. Even if that person is family.

extra gravy

Nody wrote: »

Oh dear; Trump's government just lost in the Supreme court even with stacked judges; expect twitter rant about enemies of the people etc. to come...

I think I would have given up on the US completely if the scotus had forsaken their integrity just to placate those homophobes.

Cody montana

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Also, the FDA have pulled its emergency use of hydroxychloroquine for covid-19 due to risks and lack of apparent benifit.

Not a great Monday for the trump administration, we have the book by his niece, the LGBTQ ruling by the Supreme Court, and now trumps wonder drug has had its use withdrawn.

And the John Bolton interview later.

ExMachina1000

Instead of all eyes on American politics for once the first government coalition of Ireland's two main opposing parties is being reported by news organisations in a few different countries

banie01

Cody montana wrote: »

And the John Bolton interview later.

When's this?

Cody montana

banie01 wrote: »

When's this?

Apologies, I’m wrong. It’s Sunday.

“ABC-The network has scheduled a one-hour primetime special on Sunday, starting at 9 PM ET. Bolton’s book, The Room Where It Happened: A White House Memoir, is scheduled to be published two days later.“