Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ECO_Mental

Harry Palmr wrote: »

This Bolton book will be biased no doubt .....

Biased??? Bolton is one of the most conservative GOP biased person I think you could find...biased in what way. Hes not a liberal never Trumper but a died in the wool GOP'er

Its from working with this utter buffoon of a President I think he was so shocked at the incompetence and corruption and self serving that he was shocked into quitting and then shamelessly wrote a book instead of having some patriotism and put the country before himself and testify at the impeachment inquiry.



He's what they call a Chicken-hawk, hes all bravado about going to war but he has never ever served him self or put his life on the line. Bolton is a coward just like Trump

Harry Palmr

All recollections have inherent bias. And he has an axe to grind.

Midlife

Trump doesn't work with regular decent people. Look at the people who would be the the position to expose him.

banie01

CNN have a copy of the book and at this point any court case by the DoJ to impede release is just adding to the Streisand effect.

The excerpts to date lay bare a monumental moron with executive power and no impulse control.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/politics/bolton-book-what-we-learned/index.html

banie01

Harry Palmr wrote: »

All recollections have inherent bias. And he has an axe to grind.

Very true, but in Bolton's particular case...
He likely has very well written contemporaneous notes to back up his biased recollections.

Leroy42

If past books are anything to go by, Trump will never actually deny what is alleged. At best he will claim it is not fully correct, taken out of context.

The main line of argument will be, and has already started, the Bolton is a terrible human and simply out to destroy the USA.

Upset at having been fired, upset at not getting a chairmanship, there will be something.

Annd as usual that is what people will focus on rather than what is actually being alleged.

In the bits I have heard from CNN, Trump asked China for help to elected him, and not only didn't condemn the use of concentration camps but actually agreed that it was the correct thing to do.

MAGA great again by selling it of for his personal ambitions!

Gwen Cooper

Leroy42 wrote: »

If past books are anything to go by, Trump will never actually deny what is alleged. At best he will claim it is not fully correct, taken out of context.

The main line of argument will be, and has already started, the Bolton is a terrible human and simply out to destroy the USA.

Upset at having been fired, upset at not getting a chairmanship, there will be something.

Something like this?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1273468029712707584

StringerBell

Whilst I agree that Bolton is repugnant and will not be reading the book myself, but will obviously see what details emerge from it I do think it's pointless to speak about making him richer by buying it. He has already been paid hasn't he? 2 million was the rumoured fee for the book, now I'm sure he makes something on the back end once the publisher recovers costs and makes some profit but it isn't like Bolton loses out if absolutely nobody buys the book, the publisher does.

PropJoe10

Deleted User wrote: »

The other interesting one is Trump's niece has her book coming out. Is he going to complain that she's a bad niece.

"Mary Trump was always the bad, dumb member of the family. Now, she's trying to sell a book by telling lies on the greatest, most famous member of the family. Sad!!"

hotmail.com

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Well, then you've been wrong from day 1. My experience tells me that's a very sweeping and inaccurate generalisation. I have never met 'Americans' like what you describe. Every one I met in the US was doing their best to just 'get on', and I never found any of them to espouse the execrable attitudes that characterize Trump and his grifting fellow travellers in today's GOP. But maybe it's just the circles in which I move.

This isn't a judgement, it's just the reality of American consumerism. And it's not confined to Trump followers. Americans love capitalism and the almighty dollar.

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

This isn't a judgement, it's just the reality of American consumerism. And it's not confined to Trump followers. Americans love capitalism and the almighty dollar.

It's a sweeping generalisation about a quarter of a billion people.

hotmail.com

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a sweeping generalisation about a quarter of a billion people.

300 million I think now.

Quin_Dub

I must say it's interesting trying to reconcile the Trump team arguments around the Bolton book.

They are simultaneously claiming that it is both a "Pack of lies" and "A Confidentiality Breach"

Surely it has to be one or the other - A Lie can't be a breach of confidence??

Gwen Cooper

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

Something like this?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1273468029712707584

Gotta pinch myself sometimes. This man is president of the US.

TomOnBoard

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I must say it's interesting trying to reconcile the Trump team arguments around the Bolton book.

They are simultaneously claiming that it is both a "Pack of lies" and "A Confidentiality Breach"

Surely it has to be one or the other - A Lie can't be a breach of confidence??

Not to mention the other claim by Kayleigh McEnany that “the book is full of classified information, which is inexcusable.”

is_that_so

Another loss for Trump. Hard to feel much for Hawley's disappointment! Apparently he clerked for Roberts.

https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1273618394697383937

is_that_so

Meanwhile claims up by another 1.5m
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/18/us-unemployment-claims-rise-coronavirus-economy-latest

Quin_Dub

is_that_so wrote: »

Another loss for Trump. Hard to feel much for Hawley's disappointment! Apparently he clerked for Roberts.

https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1273618394697383937

I think this, along with the LGBTQ case earlier this week could finally see his Core support among the GOP really start to drop.

I mean , what's the point for them?

They got nothing out of him - Rich people got a tax break , everyone else got zilch.

Absolutely no change on any of the key issues for them - Immigration , Gay Rights , Abortion.

Igotadose

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I think this, along with the LGBTQ case earlier this week could finally see his Core support among the GOP really start to drop.

I mean , what's the point for them?

They got nothing out of him - Rich people got a tax break , everyone else got zilch.

Absolutely no change on any of the key issues for them - Immigration , Gay Rights , Abortion.

The truth no longer matters, though. They'll be banging on abortions next, Trump stacked the courts, etc. And whether the SCOTUS actually comes through and rejects Roe V. Wade, that's not happening this year, there's just a Louisiana case to be adjudicated in this session. As long as Trump makes them feel good about themselves, they'll vote for him. The abortion non-debate is what motivates several of the Trump fans on this site, basically it's all they've got left now, everything else Trump's done has been an abject failure.

pixelburp

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I think this, along with the LGBTQ case earlier this week could finally see his Core support among the GOP really start to drop.

I mean , what's the point for them?

They got nothing out of him - Rich people got a tax break , everyone else got zilch.

Absolutely no change on any of the key issues for them - Immigration , Gay Rights , Abortion.

You're not wrong, but don't underestimate the fear of those "tax and spend", baby killing, 2nd Amendment revoking, BLM supporting Democrats. The GOP ultras may not have got much from Trump but the "imperfect vessel" is probably still preferred to the other side. Propaganda has done its job and Sportsfan politics remains a real beast.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

You're not wrong, but don't underestimate the fear of those "tax and spend", baby killing, 2nd Amendment revoking, BLM supporting Democrats. The GOP ultras may not have got much from Trump but the "imperfect vessel" is probably still preferred to the other side. Propaganda has done its job and Sportsfan politics remains a real beast.

They've got the next "cycle" set up. Deficit is high and will need to be brought down under control by the next administration. Not a problem if its Trump again but if Biden wins the GOP can spend the next four years whinging about the Democrats bringing in more taxes and improving everyone's civil rights etc. Until they get voted in and **** things up again. Rinse and repeat.

ancapailldorcha

pixelburp wrote: »

You're not wrong, but don't underestimate the fear of those "tax and spend", baby killing, 2nd Amendment revoking, BLM supporting Democrats. The GOP ultras may not have got much from Trump but the "imperfect vessel" is probably still preferred to the other side. Propaganda has done its job and Sportsfan politics remains a real beast.

I think you might be overstating this to be honest. As far as I can tell, the people who decide American elections are swing voters, especially in rural states. Talking about those people specifically, I don't know why they'd pick Trump. What does he have to offer those in the middle of the two parties? The only thing he has done consistently is to humiliate the US on the global stage.

His base will turn out. no question. But I don't see that being enough to get him a second term.

TomOnBoard

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I think this, along with the LGBTQ case earlier this week could finally see his Core support among the GOP really start to drop.

I mean , what's the point for them?

They got nothing out of him - Rich people got a tax break , everyone else got zilch.

Absolutely no change on any of the key issues for them - Immigration , Gay Rights , Abortion.

No matter what he does or doesn't do, he will still have his base.

Will they be cooler towards him than in 2016? Possibly!
Will they vote for him and for other GOP candidates down the ballot in 2020? Almost certainly!
Would some of them vote for Biden and other Dems down ballot? Not in a million years!

So, assume that base comprises 35% of voters. A similar 35% will vote for Dem candidates for POTUS and down the ballot, and will NEVER vote GOP. So, it's the 30% in the middle that's at stake. I see some/many Trump/GOP voters in that segment in 2016, moving over to Biden/Dem in 2020, to and even greater degree than in 2018. I see few Clinton/Dem voters in that segment in 2016 having any reason to move to voting Rep in 2020.

So, the 35% at each end of the spectrum are totally locked in to their respective allegiances. And they will vote come hell or high water. However, if any obstacles are placed in the way of the middle ground, they will be less committed to surmounting those obstacles and that's where GOP voter suppression tactics will focus on.

Quin_Dub

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think you might be overstating this to be honest. As far as I can tell, the people who decide American elections are swing voters, especially in rural states. Talking about those people specifically, I don't know why they'd pick Trump. What does he have to offer those in the middle of the two parties? The only thing he has done consistently is to humiliate the US on the global stage.

His base will turn out. no question. But I don't see that being enough to get him a second term.

This is it exactly..

There's a large swathe of voters that might just not bother voting at all at this point.

If you're an evangelical - You have gotten less than zero in return your vote last time out. You can only "hold your nose" for so long without getting somewhere.

If you're a mid-western farmer - You are measurably worse off in every way now than you were 4 years ago. Let's be fair if you're anyone other than one of Trumps Rich friends , you are worse off now than before.

The recent Rasmussen poll tells a story..

The poll’s full sample showed that in the upcoming election, 36 percent would vote for Trump, 48 percent would vote for Biden, 6 percent would vote for another candidate, while 9 percent were unsure.

There was no change among Democratic voters in Rasmussen’s poll, but the president lost four points from Republicans and 13 from Independents. The previous poll also showed that Biden and Trump were tied among Independents at 39 percent.

Trump is bleeding support from Independents and GOP voters and it's hard to see how he makes that back up.

It's a 12+ point gap and there's less than 10% undecided so they are not enough , even if he got them all - How does he convince someone that currently says they'll vote Biden to vote for him without seriously damaging his core support?

Leroy42

Quin_Dub wrote: »

This is it exactly..

There's a large swathe of voters that might just not bother voting at all at this point.

If you're an evangelical - You have gotten less than zero in return your vote last time out. You can only "hold your nose" for so long without getting somewhere.

If you're a mid-western farmer - You are measurably worse off in every way now than you were 4 years ago. Let's be fair if you're anyone other than one of Trumps Rich friends , you are worse off now than before.

The recent Rasmussen poll tells a story..



Trump is bleeding support from Independents and GOP voters and it's hard to see how he makes that back up.

It's a 12+ point gap and there's less than 10% undecided so they are not enough , even if he got them all - How does he convince someone that currently says they'll vote Biden to vote for him without seriously damaging his core support?

Evangelicals have got loads out of Trump. Prayer meeting in the oval office, the recent photo op with the bible. Continued attacks on LGBTQ, Muslims (the Muslim ban) and although I doubt any of them believe Trump for a minute, they will see this has having Religion back centre stage.

In terms of farmers, well didn't Trump basically become a socialist and dig them all out? With the very real possibility of getting trade deal with the UK to allow them to sell into the UK.

Don't underestimate just how focused these people, particularly the evangelicals are. Nothing else matters to them. Truth, scandal. Nothing. Its all about the bible, the lord Jesus Christ and then coming revelations.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Digs at other posters are not welcome here. Post deleted.

Nody

Second loss for Trump in the Supreme Court in a week; I guess Trump's supporters really got tired of all the winning they were doing.

Washington (CNN)The Supreme Court on Thursday blocked the Trump administration's attempt to end the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, an Obama-era program that protects hundreds of thousands of immigrants brought to the US as children from deportation. The 5-4 ruling was written by Chief Justice John Roberts and joined by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Elena Kagan, Stephen Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor.

The ruling emphasizes that the administration failed to provide an adequate reason to justify ending the DACA program. "We do not decide whether DACA or its rescission are sound policies," Roberts wrote in the majority opinion. "'The wisdom' of those decisions 'is none of our concern.' We address only whether the agency complied with the procedural requirement that it provide a reasoned explanation for its action." It is a blow to the Trump administration, as immigration reform has been a lynchpin of Trump's agenda. It means that for now, participants in the program can continue to renew membership in the program that offers them work authorization and temporary protection from deportation.

Quin_Dub

Leroy42 wrote: »

Evangelicals have got loads out of Trump. Prayer meeting in the oval office, the recent photo op with the bible. Continued attacks on LGBTQ, Muslims (the Muslim ban) and although I doubt any of them believe Trump for a minute, they will see this has having Religion back centre stage.

In terms of farmers, well didn't Trump basically become a socialist and dig them all out? With the very real possibility of getting trade deal with the UK to allow them to sell into the UK.

Don't underestimate just how focused these people, particularly the evangelicals are. Nothing else matters to them. Truth, scandal. Nothing. Its all about the bible, the lord Jesus Christ and then coming revelations.

But they haven't really though.. They've had some photo ops and some sabre rattling but they haven't actually gotten anything tangible.

Thy supported him for a single purpose - So that he would pack the courts with Hard Right Conservatives at all levels who would then roll-back all the liberalisations of the last 40+ years. On that Trump has thus far failed, so much so that the guy they hand-picked to be the new Scalia just took a dump on them from 40,000 feet by writing the opinion to give LGBTQ equal rights.

People can still have abortions ,Gays can still get married and now they can't even fire people for being Gay or Muslim or just for not being the same as them.

And on top of that , they still can't kick out the brown people and there is no wall.

They aren't going away longer term that's for certain , but I don't think they see Trump as the guy anymore.

They might sit out the next 4 years and try again in 2024 - Biden won't run for a 2nd term so they'll likely be running against whoever his VP is.

They'll go to town on a Black Liberal women VP for the next 4 years to poison the well for 2024.

Rjd2

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I think this, along with the LGBTQ case earlier this week could finally see his Core support among the GOP really start to drop.

I mean , what's the point for them?

They got nothing out of him - Rich people got a tax break , everyone else got zilch.

Absolutely no change on any of the key issues for them - Immigration , Gay Rights , Abortion.

Hawley got his eye on 2024 I think.


I think Trump and Mitch were hoping that RBG would have popped her clogs by now and they could have stuck Barrett on the bench which would have been monumental for the social conservatives but it seems RBG is going to outlive everyone!:)

ExMachina1000

Quin_Dub wrote: »

But they haven't really though.. They've had some photo ops and some sabre rattling but they haven't actually gotten anything tangible.

Thy supported him for a single purpose - So that he would pack the courts with Hard Right Conservatives at all levels who would then roll-back all the liberalisations of the last 40+ years. On that Trump has thus far failed, so much so that the guy they hand-picked to be the new Scalia just took a dump on them from 40,000 feet by writing the opinion to give LGBTQ equal rights.

People can still have abortions ,Gays can still get married and now they can't even fire people for being Gay or Muslim or just for not being the same as them.

And on top of that , they still can't kick out the brown people and there is no wall.

They aren't going away longer term that's for certain , but I don't think they see Trump as the guy anymore.

They might sit out the next 4 years and try again in 2024 - Biden won't run for a 2nd term so they'll likely be running against whoever his VP is.

They'll go to town on a Black Liberal women VP for the next 4 years to poison the well for 2024.

This guy gets it. Sees through all of the side shows