Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

laugh

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/opinion/impeachment-defense-trump.html

He is accused of crimes.

Itssoeasy

AMKC wrote: »

So now Trump said in a Tweet that if he had of listened to John Bolten we would be in WW6. Did you every here of anything so stupid and this from the POTUS. We would not get to WW4 never mind 6 as the Nukes would destroy everything. Just goes to show what a childish stupid idiot he is. Also what he has done with the Palastians and Isreal does not fix things it just makes it worse.

WW6 ? As you say his brain doesn't engage his mouth the vast majority of the time but maybe WW6 would be the greatest war of all time.

TomOnBoard

laugh wrote: »

Pam Bondi can barely put a few thoughts together.

Not true!

Pam received a $25k secret political contribution to her Florida A.G. campaign from the Trump so- called "Charity"....

Shortly thereafter, Pam removed the State of Florida from becoming involved in the multi-State action against the so-called "Trump University".

This is clear evidence that Pam is well capable of putting at least two thoughts together... Regarding three thoughts, I don't have any evidence....

;-)

everlast75

This is absolutely insane stuff.

Regardless of whether the president is Democrat or Republican.

The GOP position:

— Presidents can only be impeached for indictable crimes
— DOJ can’t *investigate* possible presidential crimes (never mind charge)
— Neither can state or local officials
— If Congress tries to investigate, presidents can mass refuse all subpoenas for witnesses and documents
- if the president thinks it's in the national interests, he can get the assistance of foreign countries to investigate his rival
- executive privilege is without limitation
- you can't impeach on an election year
- they insist the public must decide in an election, whilst opening asking for foreign interference so it won't be a fair election
- that impeachment is the same as a coup!?


How the **** are people okay with this?

frag420

It gets better...

... A section of Donald Trump’s much-vaunted border wall between the United States and Mexico has blown over in high winds, US border patrol officers have been reported as saying.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/30/trump-border-wall-between-us-and-mexico-blows-over-in-high-winds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

looksee

Well now in fairness it had only just been put up so the concrete wasn't set. Whether anyone was responsible for looking at a weather forecast before building is another question. Its also interesting that the trees are right up against the fence and are already taller than it. Who needs ladders?

Christy42

everlast75 wrote: »

This is absolutely insane stuff.

Regardless of whether the president is Democrat or Republican.

The GOP position:

— Presidents can only be impeached for indictable crimes
— DOJ can’t *investigate* possible presidential crimes (never mind charge)
— Neither can state or local officials
— If Congress tries to investigate, presidents can mass refuse all subpoenas for witnesses and documents
- if the president thinks it's in the national interests, he can get the assistance of foreign countries to investigate his rival
- executive privilege is without limitation
- you can't impeach on an election year
- they insist the public must decide in an election, whilst opening asking for foreign interference so it won't be a fair election
- that impeachment is the same as a coup!?


How the **** are people okay with this?

And to add to that part of Donald's defense (as stated by his lawyer in the Senate) is that anything to help him get reelected is in the public interest so even if he did try and get Biden investigated for his campaign it was still for the US.

Absolutely nuts

Thebeast078

McConnell has received campaign donations from Trump's impeachment defense team.

Now I am not saying there is anything wrong and people are entitled to make donations to whatever cause they like BUT this just smells of selling out democracy for some money..

Several members of President Donald Trump's impeachment defense team recently gave money to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's 2020 reelection campaign, a Courier Journal analysis of campaign finance data found.

Ken Starr, who famously prosecuted former President Bill Clinton in his impeachment trial before joining Trump's team, gave the maximum individual contribution allowed — $2,800 — to the McConnell Senate Committee on July 31, 2019.

This wasn't Starr's first donation to McConnell, however. The lawyer and former Baylor University president is a longtime Republican who has given to every McConnell reelection campaign since 2002.

Another member of the president's impeachment defense team, Robert Ray, gave a total of $5,600 to the McConnell Senate Committee through two separate donations — one for the primary election, one for the general — on Sept. 30, 2019.

Ray, who succeeded Starr in his federal role as independent counsel and was involved in Clinton-related investigative work, did not donate to previous McConnell reelection efforts, according to campaign finance data from the Federal Election Commission.

sid waddell

everlast75 wrote: »

This is absolutely insane stuff.

Regardless of whether the president is Democrat or Republican.

The GOP position:

— Presidents can only be impeached for indictable crimes
— DOJ can’t *investigate* possible presidential crimes (never mind charge)
— Neither can state or local officials
— If Congress tries to investigate, presidents can mass refuse all subpoenas for witnesses and documents
- if the president thinks it's in the national interests, he can get the assistance of foreign countries to investigate his rival
- executive privilege is without limitation
- you can't impeach on an election year
- they insist the public must decide in an election, whilst opening asking for foreign interference so it won't be a fair election
- that impeachment is the same as a coup!?


How the **** are people okay with this?

Trump supporters are a classic example of Homo Sovieticus. Homo Sovieticus, as the term implies, was a widespread personality type in the Soviet Union/Russia which could not handle change. It was the personality type which led to the emergence of Putin and then the widespread acceptance and eulogising of Putin among the population.

Homo Sovieticus wanted to be lied to and have an imaginary strongman portray an imaginary vision of stability, through the creation of constant instability.

In other words, Homo Sovieticus craved dictatorship because it was scared ****less of freedom. This is the irony of Republicans today. They are scared of freedom and actually want to be ruled by a corrupt, authoritarian cult which constantly manufactures enemies.

Widespread dissatisfaction with democratic politics leads to this sort of situation. Those who do most to destroy people's faith in democratic politics, ie. the vested interests who rig the rules of the game so that wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few, ie. in the US the Republican party and its associated mass bull**** industry, in Britain the Tories, are ironically pretty much always the ones to benefit.

Watch how the rhetoric of supporters of Trump and the Tories implicitly or explicitly vilifies all democratic politics, ie the both sides or "all sides are at it" narrative. This is a key part of spreading that disenchantment, clearing the way for authoritarianism.

I suppose all this is just another way of describing the evolution of a full blown cult.

Gbear

Thebeast078 wrote: »

McConnell has received campaign donations from Trump's impeachment defense team.

Now I am not saying there is anything wrong and people are entitled to make donations to whatever cause they like BUT this just smells of selling out democracy for some money..

Several members of President Donald Trump's impeachment defense team recently gave money to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's 2020 reelection campaign, a Courier Journal analysis of campaign finance data found.

Ken Starr, who famously prosecuted former President Bill Clinton in his impeachment trial before joining Trump's team, gave the maximum individual contribution allowed — $2,800 — to the McConnell Senate Committee on July 31, 2019.

This wasn't Starr's first donation to McConnell, however. The lawyer and former Baylor University president is a longtime Republican who has given to every McConnell reelection campaign since 2002.

Another member of the president's impeachment defense team, Robert Ray, gave a total of $5,600 to the McConnell Senate Committee through two separate donations — one for the primary election, one for the general — on Sept. 30, 2019.

Ray, who succeeded Starr in his federal role as independent counsel and was involved in Clinton-related investigative work, did not donate to previous McConnell reelection efforts, according to campaign finance data from the Federal Election Commission.

Honestly, it's a bigger disgrace that this is legal in the US than if it was being done surreptitiously.
At least if they were breaking the law, you could do something about it.

Corruption on an industrial scale is perfectly legal in the US political system.

Stallingrad

With Netanyahu being charged with bribery, breach of trust and fraud I guess we can expect Trump to withhold aid until all that corruption is dealt with? It's great America finally has a selfless President who really wants to get to the truth.

Or maybe he is just a self serving huckster whose supporters can't see beyond the lemon they have been sold.

Here is a photo of him getting tough on corruption.

Outlaw Pete

sid waddell wrote: »

Trump supporters are a classic example of ..

Yeah, keep sneering. That worked really well in 2016.

No lessons have been learned. You all think you're still right and everyone else is wrong no matter what happens.

Doesn't even occur to you lot that maybe it's you that's wrongheaded and not those you are criticizing at all.

The following ad was created on the basis in fact and it's spot on. That attitude will just ensure Trump gets another four years.


https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1222526298930761728

Outlaw Pete

Stallingrad wrote: »

Here is a photo of him getting tough on corruption.

No, that's a photo of him doing the job (despite democrats constant harassment) he was elected to do and if Obama was trying to do similar with that deal, the MSM would be lauding him for it.

Course if it goes nowhere it's yet another thing to have a go at Donald Trump about I suppose.

Outlaw Pete

Gbear wrote: »

Corruption on an industrial scale is perfectly legal in the US political system.

It would seem so given that there have been no prosecutions yet over politically motivated FISA abuse, FBI leaks and email tampering.

Although Comey was referred for prosecution but nothing came of it. Hopefully the Durham-Barr investigation rectifies that.

everlast75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, keep sneering. That worked really well in 2016.

No lessons have been learned. You all think you're still right and everyone else is wrong no matter what happens.

Doesn't even occur to you lot that maybe it's you that's wrongheaded and not those you are criticizing at all.

The following ad was created on the basis in fact and it's spot on. That attitude will just ensure Trump gets another four years.


https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1222526298930761728

Trump, who has built his brand on people being "snowflakes"? And Donny Jnr, who writes a book called "triggered", gets annoyed by a cable tv show?

The irony.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

No, that's a photo of him doing the job (despite democrats constant harassment) he was elected to do and if Obama was trying to do similar with that deal, the MSM would be lauding him for it.

Course if it goes nowhere it's yet another thing to have a go at Donald Trump about I suppose.

Netenyau is currently under criminal indictment. You would think that Trump, being the bastion of anti-corruption, would have an issue with that. It's almost as if being bothered by the corruption in Israel doesn't have provide him with a political advantage.

everlast75 wrote: »

This is absolutely insane stuff.

Regardless of whether the president is Democrat or Republican.

The GOP position:

— Presidents can only be impeached for indictable crimes
— DOJ can’t *investigate* possible presidential crimes (never mind charge)
— Neither can state or local officials
— If Congress tries to investigate, presidents can mass refuse all subpoenas for witnesses and documents
- if the president thinks it's in the national interests, he can get the assistance of foreign countries to investigate his rival
- executive privilege is without limitation
- you can't impeach on an election year
- they insist the public must decide in an election, whilst opening asking for foreign interference so it won't be a fair election
- that impeachment is the same as a coup!?


How the **** are people okay with this?

Hey Pete, while you're here, wagging your finger, care to comment on the defence to the current Trial of the impeached president?

StringerBell

The sham should be over soon, the cover up is almost complete by the senate republicans.

Christy42

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, keep sneering. That worked really well in 2016.

No lessons have been learned. You all think you're still right and everyone else is wrong no matter what happens.

Doesn't even occur to you lot that maybe it's you that's wrongheaded and not those you are criticizing at all.

The following ad was created on the basis in fact and it's spot on. That attitude will just ensure Trump gets another four years.


https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1222526298930761728

This is one thing I don't get. Trump has given out about liberal people at every turn. It seems to be part of why Trump was elected, "to shove it to the libs". Liberal used as an inisly at every turn. We hear people complaining about snowflakes or libtards but God help everyone if someone on the right wing gets insulted. One rule for some and another for the rest.

I thought Trump was meant to be anti PC and people could "call it like it is"? That was his calling card. People could go out and say what they felt about brown people or LGBT people and shouldn't be shamed. Then suddenly people started saying what they thought of right wing people and they were horrified that they could be insulted.

Like the entire ok Boomer thing. People spent a decade complaining that the younger generation was too sensitive to being insulted and went nuts when they were insulted once.

sid waddell

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, keep sneering.

Oh look, a Trump supporter portrays himself as a victim, how twee.

For somebody whose entire worldview is dedicated to the shameless maintenance of power of the rich and corrupt and the wholesale desire to sneer at and silence the marginalised and the traditionally marginalised, you do have a very ironic line in wallowing in victimhood.

Like all Trump supporters.

You genuinely do believe that traditionally marginalised groups having a voice and using it makes you, the white male, the victim, don't you?

Where to even start.

Let me guess, your response will include the word "woke", thinking it constitutes some form of a point.

sid waddell

Christy42 wrote: »

This is one thing I don't get. Trump has given out about liberal people at every turn. It seems to be part of why Trump was elected, "to shove it to the libs". Liberal used as an inisly at every turn. We hear people complaining about snowflakes or libtards but God help everyone if someone on the right wing gets insulted. One rule for some and another for the rest.

I thought Trump was meant to be anti PC and people could "call it like it is"? That was his calling card. People could go out and say what they felt about brown people or LGBT people and shouldn't be shamed. Then suddenly people started saying what they thought of right wing people and they were horrified that they could be insulted.

Like the entire ok Boomer thing. People spent a decade complaining that the younger generation was too sensitive to being insulted and went nuts when they were insulted once.

The whole "pro-free speech" thing is a trojan for conservative authoritarianism and real clamping down on free speech.

Libertarianism has only ever been one step away from authoritarianism because it believes the powerful should have the "freedom" to oppress. Look how many self-proclaimed "libertarians" are huge defenders of Trump and Trumpism.

The paradox of tolerance is that we cannot be tolerant of intolerance, because if we are, tolerance will destroy freedom.

So called "libertarians" and this ridiculous so called "pro-free speech" agenda believe in the exact opposite.

Its practitioners believe in using the cloak of "free speech" and "tolerance" to suppress speech it doesn't like and claim absolute power to advance a regressive agenda which serves entrenched power, money and corruption.

It does this through claiming fake eternal victimhood - a complete twisting of reality on its head.

It pretends to advocate diversity in order to do away with diversity. It is deeply authoritarian in nature.

That's what happened in Russia with Putin and it's happening in the US, the UK, Turkey, Poland, Hungary, Brazil, India etc. too.

aloyisious

According to various media sources [which will probably be accused of fake news] members of Don's White House staff advised him against taking Alan Dershowitz onto his defence team but Don decided otherwise. The reason is now plain; Alan is prepared to align his legal understanding of constitutional law with that of Don's view of it and promote it. Alan told the senators at the trial yesterday that that presidents conflate their interests with the national interest and he has no problem with that when it comes to the conflation involving impeachable offences.

Alan seems to have been on the Trump team since 2017 when he reportedly commented to a reporter that his friends were ignoring him as he was supporting Trump. Before Don's election to the presidency, Alan was a supporter of HRC, listed as being an ardent liberal into the bargain. Looking at the monetary contributions listed as being given to Dons election campaign fund by his legal team members has me wondering if Alan is making a Pro Bono legal services contribution to the same campaign [ala Rudy Giuliani] without a thought as to future benefit.

PropJoe10

So now Derschowitz is saying that what Trump did can't be impeachable because Trump honestly believes that him being POTOS is in the national interest and therefore he can do whatever he wants to ensure that he remains in that position. You couldn't make this nonsense up, even if you tried. Absolutely disgraceful episode in American history.

Hoop66

They have the goods on Dershowitz for noncing, he'll make whatever absurd legal argument he's told to.

Same for Lindsay Graham; he'll say whatever he's told to. Notice the pivot from fairly rational conservative to rabid Trump supporter after just one afternoon on the golf course...what could they have talked about?

sid waddell

PropJoe10 wrote: »

So now Derschowitz is saying that what Trump did can't be impeachable because Trump honestly believes that him being POTOS is in the national interest and therefore he can do whatever he wants to ensure that he remains in that position. You couldn't make this nonsense up, even if you tried. Absolutely disgraceful episode in American history.

Let's call it what it is. Dershowitz's "argument" is that Trump should be allowed be an all powerful emperor, ie. a dictator.

And yet any time anybody has brought up the word fascism here, they get a ticking off or a "pipe down" in response. Why does that happen?

Because that's exactly what it is, fascism!

everlast75

https://twitter.com/adamgoldmanNYT/status/1222634662910218240?s=19

I can't help but think political interference is at play here.

Hopefully the judge will give little credence to the proposal from the prosecution and throw the proverbial book at Flynn, and that whilst he is being escorted away, the chant "lock him up" rings in his ears...

PropJoe10

sid waddell wrote: »

Let's call it what it is. Dershowitz's "argument" is that Trump should be allowed be an all powerful emperor, ie. a dictator.

And yet any time anybody has brought up the word fascism here, they get a ticking off or a "pipe down" in response. Why does that happen?

Because that's exactly what it is, fascism!

Yep, that's the world we live in now. Everyone is corrupt apart from our Don, who is the chosen, God-given one sent to rescue the American people, so therefore, he can do whatever he likes in order to stay in office because he's the great protector and redeemer.

This sort of thing is how Fascism started in the 20s and 30s.

Stallingrad

What is the point with engaging with Trump supporters anymore? They turn a blind eye to the mountain of evidence that he is not suited to the role, or to anything that doesn't fit their narrative, or they tie themselves in knots trying justify the unjustifiable.

If he loses the vote this year, he will hunker down, discredit the result and refuse to leave, the final nail in American democracy will be complete. The current impeachment 'I can do anything if I think is best for the country' defense is a perfect trial run for this. This is not tin foil hat stuff, it's going to happen.

Where will his supporters be then? Still standing by their guy? "He may have destroyed America democracy BUT…."

At this stage the test of a true American who loves their country is someone who runs a mile from the man and what he is doing.

AbusesToilets

I would like to see the Democratic candidates pressed on what, if any, measures they would take to roll back Trump's egregious expansion of Presidential power.

aloyisious

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I would like to see the Democratic candidates pressed on what, if any, measures they would take to roll back Trump's egregious expansion of Presidential power.

Enable the people to change the provision that says once one is a judge on the USSC, one can stay there until death or resignation. Make it a compulsory retirement job at age 60. Colleges need constitutional law experts.

aloyisious

Stallingrad wrote: »

What is the point with engaging with Trump supporters anymore? They turn a blind eye to the mountain of evidence that he is not suited to the role, or to anything that doesn't fit their narrative, or they tie themselves in knots trying justify the unjustifiable.

If he loses the vote this year, he will hunker down, discredit the result and refuse to leave, the final nail in American democracy will be complete. The current impeachment 'I can do anything if I think is best for the country' defense is a perfect trial run for this. This is not tin foil hat stuff, it's going to happen.

Where will his supporters be then? Still standing by their guy? "He may have destroyed America democracy BUT…."

At this stage the test of a true American who loves their country is someone who runs a mile from the man and what he is doing.

The only reason actually is to call a lie what it is when it's spoken or written and to name the liar. Stand up for your rights.

Christy42

aloyisious wrote: »

Enable the people to change the provision that says once one is a judge on the USSC, one can stay there until death or resignation. Make it a compulsory retirement job at age 60. Colleges need constitutional law experts.

I would stick a time limit as opposed to an age limit.

However it is a great idea to push for how they will roll back Trump's excesses and stop such blatant abuse of power from being the norm.