Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Foxtrol

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm going to go back and edit my last post on this matter, apparently the 312 miles is of infrastructure to include sensors, access, etc, not the specific 32-foot-high physical barrier. The CBP website states 216 miles built.

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/along-us-borders/border-wall-system

That said, the map is interesting, it's a clickable one showing planned and extant wall (The physical one). When completed, the vast majority of the border between Mexico and CA, AZ and NM will be encompassed, only the border which has the natural barrier of the Rio Grande river will remain as a significant distance without one, and even at that, it's mainly a part of West Texas where there is absolutely no infrastructure or concealment which migrants and cartels can use. It makes a compelling argument that what will be built will be effective.

Only if you presume that people can't get under, over, or through the wall - which hasn't been the case so far.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/smugglers-are-sawing-through-new-sections-of-trumps-border-wall/2019/11/01/25bf8ce0-fa72-11e9-ac8c-8eced29ca6ef_story.html

A wall makes sense at certain points but it is inefficient or simply a complete waste of money in many others

Leroy42

When it is completed? Jebus, that is some caveat.

I thought Trump was the best person, he knew construction, he knew how to get things done.

But apparently he needed 4 years just to get the plans ready, now wants another 4 to what?

What reason has he given for not building it?

TomOnBoard

amdublin wrote: »

I'd say "website guy" will be getting a bateing

Assuming that Brad Parscale is "website guy", please don't waste too much pity and/or emotional pain on him...

Last time I looked, tens of millions of Trump 2020 campaign funds have found their way into Brad's account, and its not just resting there!

TomOnBoard

aloyisious wrote: »

Kentucky is holding's it's State Primary tomorrow after this ruling by a federal judge agreeing with most counties having only one [1] voting centre. State officials on both sides of the political aisle released a joint statement condemning US District Court Judge Charles Simpson’s ruling two days ago against a case that argued having just one polling site in most of the state’s 120 counties would result in voter suppression.

“We believe the judge disregarded evidence from our expert witness that one location will suppress the vote, particularly among African Americans,” read the statement, co-authored by Jason Nemes, a Republican state representative, and Keisha Dorsey, a Democratic councilwoman for Louisville Metro. The lawmakers were both behind the lawsuit, which demanded an increase in statewide polling locations.

I saw this on F/B two days ago but after I opened up Boards.ie and went back to F/B the story had disappeared from its news items.

https://twnews.co.uk/gb-news/apos-it-apos-s-going-to-be-an-angry-mob-apos-kentucky-cuts-number-of-polling-stations-by-95-percent-ahead-of-primary-voting

https://uselections.com/ky/ky.htm

I saw the same or a related story..

What particularly struck me was a county that is 70+ miles long has a single voting station, and most African Americans in that county don't/can't drive!

:eek::eek::eek:

Midlife

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm going to go back and edit my last post on this matter, apparently the 312 miles is of infrastructure to include sensors, access, etc, not the specific 32-foot-high physical barrier. The CBP website states 216 miles built.

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/along-us-borders/border-wall-system

That said, the map is interesting, it's a clickable one showing planned and extant wall (The physical one). When completed, the vast majority of the border between Mexico and CA, AZ and NM will be encompassed, only the border which has the natural barrier of the Rio Grande river will remain as a significant distance without one, and even at that, it's mainly a part of West Texas where there is absolutely no infrastructure or concealment which migrants and cartels can use. It makes a compelling argument that what will be built will be effective.

I'm not sure either of the sites you quote are credible.

Regardless let's go with their optimistic schedule adn assume that 450miles of mostly fencing are built by the end of the year.

Do you think that personally think that that's a good way to spend somewhere around 18 billion?

Would you consider that it's wasting money to fulfill a campaign promise while perhaps also making some of the right people a lot of money?

With 18 billion they could pay 2,100 people 50k per year to stand a mile apart for 170 years.

I get that that's not practical but you get the idea I'm sure you can come up with a better way to spend such a sum than a fence which is deemed to be pretty ineffective.

Do you not think this is a stupid idea?

TomOnBoard

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm going to go back and edit my last post on this matter, apparently the 312 miles is of infrastructure to include sensors, access, etc, not the specific 32-foot-high physical barrier. The CBP website states 216 miles built.

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/along-us-borders/border-wall-system

That said, the map is interesting, it's a clickable one showing planned and extant wall (The physical one). When completed, the vast majority of the border between Mexico and CA, AZ and NM will be encompassed, only the border which has the natural barrier of the Rio Grande river will remain as a significant distance without one, and even at that, it's mainly a part of West Texas where there is absolutely no infrastructure or concealment which migrants and cartels can use. It makes a compelling argument that what will be built will be effective.

Jeez, Manic...

By all means go back and make your edits to your own post... Don't answer mine as though you're adding or detracting from it..

Comment on the thrust of my post, or else leave my post alone...Frankly, I expected more of you...

For the record, a 'sea to shining sea' structure, paid for by Mexico, has not been built as promised REPEATEDLY, by Trump.

What your response focuses on is yet another 'will be'... 3.5 years in, Manic! 'Wilbys' are about as valuable as 'Trustmes' from these Grifters at this stage...

aloyisious

It looks like the Tulsa rally has started taking its toll on Trump's campaign. Besides the 6 staffers who were already affected by Covid-19 before working there, two more staffers have been found with it after the rally, along with two Secret Service members who were there. Given that it's only a few days since the rally, the virus showing up so soon might indicate the 4 were already affected before arriving in Tulsa, though that'll be no comfort for them or their families. If they mingled with the Trump fans, the multiplication may have begun.

Manic Moran

Foxtrol wrote: »

Only if you presume that people can't get under, over, or through the wall - which hasn't been the case so far.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/smugglers-are-sawing-through-new-sections-of-trumps-border-wall/2019/11/01/25bf8ce0-fa72-11e9-ac8c-8eced29ca6ef_story.html

A wall makes sense at certain points but it is inefficient or simply a complete waste of money in many others

An obstacle not under overwatch is merely a small delay. I don't think many informed people* believe that the barrier is going to be a hard stop against anyone of sufficient determination. What it does, do, however, is cause a delay which can be taken advantage of. Those instances where the rebar was sawn through was not completed wall. The physical wall was in place, but the sensors were not. The point of the physical barrier (regardless of what the uninformed claim) is to provide a response time for CBP to get to the point of breach, not to prevent the breach entirely. Something like this.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/12/05/border-patrol-viral-video-mexicali/2626474001/

The Rio Grande valley certainly seems like one of those points where a wall is less cost-effective, as you say, and CBP seems to agree with you on that. It takes so long to get to the border, and when you cross it, there's still a huge distance to cross before you can get anywhere to disappear, there is a fair bit of response time that CBP's assets can respond with. El Centro or El Paso would be other matters entirely.

*CBP are part of the more informed group, given this quote in your article, "CBP officials also have consistently said that no single structure, regardless of its design, can seal the border on its own. Rather, they have advocated for a “border wall system” that combines physical barriers, surveillance technology and the rapid deployment of agents to stop border crossers and attempted breaches"

Manic Moran

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Jeez, Manic...

By all means go back and make your edits to your own post... Don't answer mine as though you're adding or detracting from it..

Comment on the thrust of my post, or else leave my post alone...Frankly, I expected more of you...

For the record, a 'sea to shining sea' structure, paid for by Mexico, has not been built as promised REPEATEDLY, by Trump.

What your response focuses on is yet another 'will be'... 3.5 years in, Manic! 'Wilbys' are about as valuable as 'Trustmes' from these Grifters at this stage...

Do you really think that people who are voting with any weight on the issue of border security truly care that there will or will not be exactly 1,954 miles of shining wall or if it will be paid for by Mexico?

What they will be able to see is that under currently funded construction projects, from the Pacific Ocean to somewhere East of El Paso will be only one major section with physical barrier: About 60 miles around The Big Hatchet and Alamo Heuco mountains (SouthWest New Mexico), and there will be a massive increase in barriers in the populated parts of Texas, which currently has only small sections around El Paso, Laredo, and a couple of spots between McAllen and Brownsville. Compare the map of the "Trump Wall" on the CBP website with what currently exists on this image https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8136041/us_protected_lands_border_mexico_map_vox.png

That doesn't deny that the statements were full of crap and are nowhere near being obtained. If it makes you feel better to say it, go ahead, but it won't affect much. He has, however, achieved much of the effect of his promise and a voter may well conclude that the remainder of that effect (such as filling in the 2-3 miles gaps here and there in AZ or CA, or filling in the rest of the line from Del Rio to the Atlantic, about 200 miles of construction) can be achieved. If the several hundred miles around Big Bend, for example, don't get walled off, I strongly doubt anyone would care. The 120 miles of new wall being built around Laredo where there is currently basically nothing and a very significant migrant problem, is probably worth far more to the voter than the 600 miles north of Del Rio not being built.

USA Today did a flight of the entire 2000 mile border, think of it as a bit like Google Streetview from the air, you can see why wall-supporters will be happy with somewhere around half of the border receiving a wall.
https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/us-mexico-interactive-border-map/

listermint

Jaysus that's some length paragraph full of trumps fulfilled his promise hubris


Evidently can see how November will go in the moran household.

aloyisious

The Kentucky elections today explain why Trump and Barr were sounding off about mail-in ballots. It issued mail-in ballot papers to registered voters and got approx 400,000 back so far so the result wont be announced tonight. A favourite there against Mitch McConnell is a retired USMC female pilot but the deaths by cop may have affected the way people are thinking about voting. New York is also holding elections as well and the backswing caused by the same deaths may affect voting there.

VinLieger

amdublin wrote: »

I don't know... I agree he portrays a broken man. (And I have no sympathy)

But I believe, what he thought he was portraying (I.e. acting*) was a man "exhausted, coming home after a long day, a job well done, I saved the world again today, I am great" type of look.

Well he failed.

*Not a genuine bone in this man's body. He does not care about America, the country or the people, an iota

Roll on November

I disagree i think this might be one of the very rare times weve seen no acting from him, hes all about image it makes no sense he would try to play dejected like this, it goes against everything we know about his obsession with how he is perceived.

I didnt have any sympathy for him watching it but it really felt like we saw for a few seconds a real person and not the facade he is always wearing in public

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Do you really think that people who are voting with any weight on the issue of border security truly care that there will or will not be exactly 1,954 miles of shining wall or if it will be paid for by Mexico?

What they will be able to see is that under currently funded construction projects, from the Pacific Ocean to somewhere East of El Paso will be only one major section with physical barrier: About 60 miles around The Big Hatchet and Alamo Heuco mountains (SouthWest New Mexico), and there will be a massive increase in barriers in the populated parts of Texas, which currently has only small sections around El Paso, Laredo, and a couple of spots between McAllen and Brownsville. Compare the map of the "Trump Wall" on the CBP website with what currently exists on this image https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8136041/us_protected_lands_border_mexico_map_vox.png

That doesn't deny that the statements were full of crap and are nowhere near being obtained. If it makes you feel better to say it, go ahead, but it won't affect much. He has, however, achieved much of the effect of his promise and a voter may well conclude that the remainder of that effect (such as filling in the 2-3 miles gaps here and there in AZ or CA, or filling in the rest of the line from Del Rio to the Atlantic, about 200 miles of construction) can be achieved. If the several hundred miles around Big Bend, for example, don't get walled off, I strongly doubt anyone would care. The 120 miles of new wall being built around Laredo where there is currently basically nothing and a very significant migrant problem, is probably worth far more to the voter than the 600 miles north of Del Rio not being built.

USA Today did a flight of the entire 2000 mile border, think of it as a bit like Google Streetview from the air, you can see why wall-supporters will be happy with somewhere around half of the border receiving a wall.
https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/us-mexico-interactive-border-map/

People concerned about border security, and promised a big beautiful wall, are not concerned about gaps in border security or the lack of a wall?

But it is undoubtedly true that those fixated on immigration being the core issue with the US will see anything as a win, since the wall was never the solution in the 1st place. Rather the blame being focused on immigrants, and Trump has done a wonderful job there.

What it does show, crystallised fully in Trumps failure with C19, the failure over voting lines, the failure over unemployment lines and many more examples, is that Trump is very poor at administration and planning. His abject failure on healthcare being the biggest example of his ability to deliver on anything.

Manic Moran

listermint wrote: »

Jaysus that's some length paragraph full of trumps fulfilled his promise hubris


Evidently can see how November will go in the moran household.

No, you think you can see how voting will go in the Moran household. I can tell you that neither of them will go for Trump.

That does not mean to say that I share in the groupthink on Boards that there is nothing that he does which cannot have appeal to American voters.

People concerned about border security, and promised a big beautiful wall, are not concerned about gaps in border security or the lack of a wall?

Where wall needs to be built, it is being built. You recall, for example that issue a whiles ago with thousands of migrants being held in Laredo where there is no barrier of note within miles? Look up Laredo sector on the CBP wall construction map. Of the third of a million people a year picked up by Border Patrol, about 6,000 were picked up in Big Bend area, which is the large part of SW Texas likely to never see any wall built. The lack of a wall there isn’t going to concern many people.

But it is undoubtedly true that those fixated on immigration being the core issue with the US will see anything as a win, since the wall was never the solution in the 1st place. Rather the blame being focused on immigrants, and Trump has done a wonderful job there.

That may be so, but that doesn’t affect how a number of people feel about the wall. The latest poll I can find, March 2020 https://www.statista.com/statistics/798252/support-for-southern-border-wall-in-the-us/ , shows 86% of Republicans are in favor and, crucially, slightly more independents than are against. (39% to 36%j. Even if it remains a minority position, it is not an outlying one, and its one his voters want.

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

That does not mean to say that I share in the groupthink on Boards that there is nothing that he does which cannot have appeal to American voters.

There is no groupthink that thinks that nothing he does appeals. PLenty of what he does appeals, in many cases it is the very reason he does it. He is very evidently playing to his base, he certainly is not thinking about the country as a whole.

Manic Moran wrote: »

Where wall needs to be built, it is being built. You recall, for example that issue a whiles ago with thousands of migrants being held in Laredo where there is no barrier of note within miles? Look up Laredo sector on the CBP wall construction map. Of the third of a million people a year picked up by Border Patrol, about 6,000 were picked up in Big Bend area, which is the large part of SW Texas likely to never see any wall built. The lack of a wall there isn’t going to concern many people.

This is a perfect example of the issue that I have, and I think many have, with Trumps supporters. The discussion is not about whether the wall should or should not be built. Trump already won an election on the basis that he was going to do it. The issue is that he has singularly failed to deliver. And is he really going to ask to be given more time to deliver on something he has completely failed on already? 4 years. 4 years, That is a long time. And he is no where close to his vision or what was needed. According to Trump, and many of his supporters, illegal immigrants were streaming into the US and putting everyone at risk. So big was the problem that Trump had no plan, has done very little, and still has no plan.

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

Where wall needs to be built, it is being built. You recall, for example that issue a whiles ago with thousands of migrants being held in Laredo where there is no barrier of note within miles? Look up Laredo sector on the CBP wall construction map. Of the third of a million people a year picked up by Border Patrol, about 6,000 were picked up in Big Bend area, which is the large part of SW Texas likely to never see any wall built. The lack of a wall there isn’t going to concern many people.

That may be so, but that doesn’t affect how a number of people feel about the wall. The latest poll I can find, March 2020 https://www.statista.com/statistics/798252/support-for-southern-border-wall-in-the-us/ , shows 86% of Republicans are in favor and, crucially, slightly more independents than are against. (39% to 36%j. Even if it remains a minority position, it is not an outlying one, and its one his voters want.

Is the official border crossing at Big Bend still open? Is a lack of solid border construction elsewhere in the Big Bend area accidental or deliberate seeing as it will result in people choosing it as an easy open crossing point as distinct from an area with a solid structure being more difficult? I'd be minded to think there'd be no point in having an official custom-operated crossing point if one can just cross without checks elsewhere in the vicinity, except for providing a bridged-point over the river saving lives from drowning.

The poll seems to lack the 3rd group of people who'd be interested, the Dems.

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2015/05/crossing-border-big-bend26655

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/ayjay/status/1275421721223405569

Scary chart.

As they say, it all stops with the leadership, or in this case it's the lack of.

Penn

Trump confirming that his remarks about slowing down testing weren't in jest like the WH Press Secretary said. In fact he says "I don't kid" which means they can never use that excuse for anything he says ever again, which I'm sure will make their jobs much, much harder as that's their usual go-to.

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1275427058810847232?s=20

salmocab

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ayjay/status/1275421721223405569

Scary chart.

As they say, it all stops with the leadership, or in this case it's the lack of.

The striking thing about the chart is the up part is practically identical. It shows I think that how it was handled was vastly different.

Igotadose

Penn wrote: »

Trump confirming that his remarks about slowing down testing weren't in jest like the WH Press Secretary said. In fact he says "I don't kid" which means they can never use that excuse for anything he says ever again, which I'm sure will make their jobs much, much harder as that's their usual go-to.

CNN has had a couple of his campaign flacks on and they all took the 'just joking' line. Not just Kayleigh.

As for their jobs being hard, c'mon you think they do anything other than natter off some script? They don't care. Not a jot of ethics among them - they work for Trump. They know what they're in for.

They're well compensated by the taxpayer or the sheeple donating to Trump's campaign. They sleep well at night after a magnum of Dom Perignon and chateaubriand cooked by their personal chefs. Don't worry about them, they won't exactly be working at Wal-Mart after Trump's exited the WH.

Igotadose

Interesting that an unemployed private citizen's attendance at a Trump rally is in the national interest. The Trump campaign's not in US governments interest (by any reasonable reckoning; it's a private activity, after all). So, why is Nigel Farage's trip to the US in the national interest? A US congressman's asking. Probably the DHS buries this unfortunately.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/nigel-farage-trump-rally-us-travel-dhs-investigation-bennie-thompson-a9580271.html

Foxtrol

Igotadose wrote: »

CNN has had a couple of his campaign flacks on and they all took the 'just joking' line. Not just Kayleigh.

As for their jobs being hard, c'mon you think they do anything other than natter off some script? They don't care. Not a jot of ethics among them - they work for Trump. They know what they're in for.

They're well compensated by the taxpayer or the sheeple donating to Trump's campaign. They sleep well at night after a magnum of Dom Perignon and chateaubriand cooked by their personal chefs. Don't worry about them, they won't exactly be working at Wal-Mart after Trump's exited the WH.

It was the same for 2016.

His spokespeople went on TV for months and said that Trump was speaking figuratively about a Muslim travel ban and building a wall, despite him saying them again and again at rallies. Once he got into office he started pushing through with those policies.

I don't see swing voters being lulled in again by anything Trump's spokespeople say this election to dampen down his own words. Similarly, due to the amount of lies the administration has put out, I think they'll struggle to make some DOJ charge against Biden/Obama/Dems stick with voters because they have no credibility now.

fullstop

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Assuming that Brad Parscale is "website guy", please don't waste too much pity and/or emotional pain on him...

Last time I looked, tens of millions of Trump 2020 campaign funds have found their way into Brad's account, and its not just resting there!

I’ve seen a few quips about his Ferrari and mansion, but what’s the story here? Is he thought to be swindling funds?

On the wall topic...looks like it’s going well.

https://twitter.com/yamiche/status/1275524636432896008?s=21

Midlife

fullstop wrote: »

I’ve seen a few quips about his Ferrari and mansion, but what’s the story here? Is he thought to be swindling funds?

On the wall topic...looks like it’s going well.

https://twitter.com/yamiche/status/1275524636432896008?s=21

No doubt the contracts were given to republicans or construction companies from new youk.

alchemist33

Now he's tweeting videos of black people assaulting white people

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-faces-backlash-for-tweeting-race-baiting-vids-of-black-men-attacking-white-people

He's meant to be leading a country, not inciting a race war. If he digs any lower he'll be in hell by the weekend

Water John

The protests have been wonderfully disciplined and haven't given him any opening. So now he has to improvise and push the race division narrative.

Itssoeasy

On the issue of trump saying he wasn't kidding about testing when his press secretary and others were at pains to say he was joking would make you have a sliver of sympathy from those in his administration but then you realise they are as bad as he is. There was also the AG barr letter where he said the president fired the SDNY head guy and trump distanced himself from Barr and said it was all on the AG which throws him under the bus.

But him undercutting of his administration does seem to have consequences for American diplomats aboard as it seems the understanding has always been that if a SOS or whoever says something pertaining to foreign policy it was as if the president himself was saying it. Now, why should foreign leaders take that at face value what has been said when a couple of hours later the president could say the exact opposite ?

ExMachina1000

alchemist33 wrote: »

Now he's tweeting videos of black people assaulting white people

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-faces-backlash-for-tweeting-race-baiting-vids-of-black-men-attacking-white-people

He's meant to be leading a country, not inciting a race war. If he digs any lower he'll be in hell by the weekend

As a society we must pretend that these things do not happen.

Water John

Trump hasn't spoken to any of his Covid 19 experts in nearly 3 weeks. This is sticking his fingers in his ears and singing lalala, not to hear anything.

aloyisious

Something good has to come from all Trump's mis-steps and fake stories. Hopefully it's the refusal to wear a mask in public that will be the killer of his re-election chances.