Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

moon2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In January he had done nothing for his support base. Farmers were losing out due to China, the rust belt was continuing to lose jobs, oil was at a record low.
Now his base have a reason to vote. They are under attack by the democrats, media and antifa, cities are been burned, statues destroyed and the flag stamped on, anarchy reigns.

They don't care about the response to Covid.

You may not see it that way, but they do. Now they have a massive incentive to come out and vote even if Trumps economic policies have failed. Way to go Nancy..

Before the last election, Hillary had a 94% chance of winning.

No point in rehashing the Hillary aspect, other than to say she did win more votes and, if I remember correctly, all swing states fell within the expected margin of error. As such, the predictions were correct.

I appreciate you feel quite strongly about what's happening in America at the moment. However the way it's currently playing out is the opposite of what you perceive. Support for Trump is clearly dropping across the board. The farmers which you claim were suffering still *are* suffering.

I think you're right that there's a perception that people don't care about covid. I suspect that's partially because it had yet to hit some states. thanks to premature reopening and a lack of any form of coordinated response this is now changing. The US is once again the worst region in the world for new infections, this time across the states which were less affected in March/April/May. If history is any prediction this is where the highest mortality will be seen in the coming weeks.

The likely outcome of this will not be an overwhelming show of support for Trump.

sid waddell

sid waddell wrote: »

The point is that Donald Trump knows US troops are targets of Russian sponsored slaughter, is happy to take no action at all in response, is happy to say nothing in the way of criticism, and is happy to openly reward the sponsors of that slaughter - with no strings attached.

That is tantamount to supporting the targeting and slaughter of US troops.

I expect Russian sponsored slaughter like America sponsored slaughter is expected and acknowledged in these locations.

The supply of high grade weaponry to elements of ISIS(FSA & other groups)
by the USA to kill Russian soldiers would count as a response in my eyes.

You do not hear Putin crticising the USA for sending weaponry to the middle east to kill Russians, even though that's what a lot of it will be used for one way or another.

Criticising it is acknowledging it, i can't imagine either side want to be shown as been so vulnerable.

sid waddell

House Democrats have tabled a resolution to impeach Barr.

This is long overdue.

Barr is a very dangerous man.

Cody montana

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You think that doesn't incentivise some of his supporters ?

I suppose if you take into account the millions unemployed, the 125 thousand dead, the economy in tatters, only 3 miles of new wall built, Hillary free, no new infrastructure plan, Obamacare not repealed, coal jobs not brought back, deficit not reduced, a trade war that bankrupt farmers, taxes not released, America a laughing stock, getting impeached, the 20 thousand lies he’s told, all the criminal he’s employed.......then yes, I could see how statues would be a priority in a presidential election.

StringerBell

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You think that doesn't incentivise some of his supporters ?

His entire base, every single last one of them. They can't win him re-election so to borrow and paraphrase from yourself, what difference does it make?

sid waddell

Deleted User wrote: »

I expect Russian sponsored slaughter like America sponsored slaughter is expected and acknowledged in these locations.

The supply of high grade weaponry to elements of ISIS(FSA & other groups)
by the USA to kill Russian soldiers would count as a response in my eyes.

You do not hear Putin crticising the USA for sending weaponry to the middle east to kill Russians, even though that's what a lot of it will be used for one way or another.

Criticising it is acknowledging it, i can't imagine either side want to be shown as been so vulnerable.

This post makes no sense.

The US under Trump has given in to all of Russia's demands in the Middle East. That's bad enough.

But you don't seem to understand that what Trump is doing is tantamount to supporting the slaughter of what are supposed to be his own troops.

That is unconscionable and utterly treacherous and traitorous.

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

His entire base, every single last one of them. They can't win him re-election so to borrow and paraphrase from yourself, what difference does it make?

I think it will be closer than many expect, and a lot closer than it needed to be.

sid waddell

Cody montana wrote: »

I suppose if you take into account the millions unemployed, the 125 thousand dead, the economy in tatters, only 3 miles of new wall built, Hillary free, no new infrastructure plan, Obamacare not repealed, coal jobs not brought back, deficit not reduced, a trade war that bankrupt farmers, taxes not released, America a laughing stock, getting impeached, the 20 thousand lies he’s told, all the criminal he’s employed.......then yes, I could see how statues would be a priority in a presidential election.

Trump has nothing except whipping up a far right race/culture war in which white Christians are ordered to fantasise that they are the victims of "oppression" merely for being white Christians - "oppression" perpetrated by ethnic minorities and "snowflake lib'ruls".

That's what Hitler did.

It is a poisonous ideology which has no vision of a positive future, only chaos and bloodshed, and is tragically gaining huge currency around the world, egged on by poisonous politicians and right-wing media grifters.

sid waddell

sid waddell wrote: »

This post makes no sense.

The US under Trump has given in to all of Russia's demands in the Middle East. That's bad enough.

But you don't seem to understand that what Trump is doing is tantamount to supporting the slaughter of what are supposed to be his own troops.

That is unconscionable and utterly treacherous and traitorous.

Russians sponsored the killing of American troops(happening since the end of WW2). What do you want Trump to do about it ?

America sponsored the killing of Russian troops(happening since the end of WW2). How to you expect Putin to respond to further American aggression ?

Nearly every battle since WW2 has had the USA and Russian in the background using proxies with assets on the ground. This is not something new.

Cody montana

sid waddell wrote: »

Trump has nothing except whipping up a far right race/culture war in which white Christians are ordered to fantasise that they are the victims of "oppression" merely for being white Christians - "oppression" perpetrated by ethnic minorities and "snowflake lib'ruls".

That's what Hitler did.

It is a poisonous ideology which has no vision of a positive future, only chaos and bloodshed, and is tragically gaining huge currency around the world, egged on by poisonous politicians and right-wing media grifters.

Indeed.
Trump is trying to run on hate and fear.
He doesn’t want to unite the USA.

He needs to be called out on what he promised and on what he achieved.
A total bluffer.

sid waddell

Deleted User wrote: »

Russians sponsored the killing of American troops(happening since the end of WW2). What do you want Trump to do about it ?

America sponsored the killing of Russian troops(happening since the end of WW2). How to you expect Putin to respond to further American aggression ?

Nearly every battle since WW2 has had the USA and Russian in the background using proxies with assets on the ground. This is not something new.

It's very curious how you write in meaningless, irrelevant generalities and refuse to address the point - that Trump has not just stood idly by while Russia sponsors the slaughter of US troops, but is actually rewarding them, no strings attached, while they do so.

It is as if Trump's reaction to Putin's sponsoring of the slaughter of US troops has been choreographed by Putin himself.

I can't think of a similar instance of the leader of a country nakedly and shamelessly acting against the interests and well being of their own troops.

Who will Trump reward next? ISIS?

banie01

@Mayomaffia

Comparing the US supplying weapons to the Mujahedeen is a false equivalence.

Supplying weapons or succour to the enemy of my enemy is par for the course in geo-politics.
It was part and parcel of Cold war proxy wars.

The crucial difference here in what Russia has apparently done, is that the Russians have offered kill bounties for US and Coalition troops.

This action, when not even a Cold War stance is in place between US/Russia.

Overtly ordering the deaths of another Sovereign nations troops is an act of war.

That Trump was briefed about this is not in doubt.
NATO allies were briefed, and word is now that not only was the info included in the PDB in "early Spring" but also that John Bolton personally briefed Trump on the situation.

Should Trump have been given the Intel in the PDB and not read it?
He is incompetent.

Should Trump have read the info, or indeed have been briefed by Bolton?
He is allowing the targeting of US troops on orders of a foreign power without offering defence or reaction.

Now play that last point out to not only not offering Russia any rebuke at all!
But actually lobbying to have Russia readmitted to the G8 for the cancelled June summit?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks?

Out of interest has anyone come across anything about the coal industry since Trump got in? I'm sure the companies' profits rose for a year or 2 but with renewables being the real problem for coal and the price of all energy resources collapsing in the last 6 months I'd be interested to see how the sector is faring.

StringerBell

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think it will be closer than many expect, and a lot closer than it needed to be.

So it will make the election closer? I doubt it, how does it grow his base? If you didn't vote for trump in 2016 you ain't voting for him now, the undecideds are breaking significantly toward Biden. It is in fact looking like it will be a bigger win than I thought, I mean I have always said Trump is the incumbent, he is the favourite and it will be close but he is making it tough for himself with every cock up. Even I am becoming optimistic of a Biden win with an outside shot of Trump actually announcing his resignation before November and having Pence pardon him.

Trump was 13/8 a couple of days back, I'd throw a few quid on that if you really think he is doing the right things right now and that his numbers are trending in the right direction.

Cody montana

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Out of interest has anyone come across anything about the coal industry since Trump got in? I'm sure the companies' profits rose for a year or 2 but with renewables being the real problem for coal and the price of all energy resources collapsing in the last 6 months I'd be interested to see how the sector is faring.

“President Trump says he ended the "war on coal." But industry casualties have accelerated under his turbulent leadership, with coal plant retirements eclipsing those that occurred during the last four years of Barack Obama's presidency.

Electricity output from coal slumped to a 42-year low in 2019 and plummeted even deeper as the coronavirus pandemic swept across the country. Renewable sources like wind and solar now generate more power than Trump's favored fossil fuel. And utilities are planning to green their power plants instead of returning to the black rock.”

Not good, but good for the environment.

Didn’t he loosen clean air regulations to favour the coal industry too?
All Biden has to do is keep repeating his failures.

Itssoeasy

Senate republicans according to NBC news have distanced themselves from president trump on coronavirus masks. It's the first thing I've seen them distance themselves from him on.

Water John

Jim Jordan smirking and some other GOP all maskless, got a telling off from Chair Jim Clyburn, about how has was brought to have manners.
Made them look ignorant and childish.

briany

Cody montana wrote: »

“President Trump says he ended the "war on coal." But industry casualties have accelerated under his turbulent leadership, with coal plant retirements eclipsing those that occurred during the last four years of Barack Obama's presidency.

Electricity output from coal slumped to a 42-year low in 2019 and plummeted even deeper as the coronavirus pandemic swept across the country. Renewable sources like wind and solar now generate more power than Trump's favored fossil fuel. And utilities are planning to green their power plants instead of returning to the black rock.”

Not good, but good for the environment.

Didn’t he loosen clean air regulations to favour the coal industry too?
All Biden has to do is keep repeating his failures.

According to this article, Trump may not be able to count on those coal country votes. His efforts on that front have not amounted to much. Not for the average joe, anyway.

Coal Mining Jobs — As a candidate, Trump promised to “put our [coal] miners back to work,” but so far not many have regained their jobs.

As of December, only 1,200 coal mining jobs had come back since Trump took office, according to BLS figures. That’s 3% of the 35,600 coal mining jobs that disappeared during the Obama years.

U.S. coal production last year was on track to be the lowest in 41 years. During the 12 months ending in November (the most recent for which figures are available), the Energy Information Administration estimated that 715 million short tons were produced, which is 1.8% below the figure for 2016. The last time annual production was this low was 1978.

The outlook for coal miners remains bleak. This month EIA predicted that coal production would fall 14% more in 2020. EIA expects natural gas will continue to displace coal for the generation of electricity.

This article was written in January of this year. To be honest, most of his numbers apart from coal jobs looked very positive for his reelection on the face of it. Whether that was because of his actions or it was following on from the Obama years is another debate, but we know he'd take credit either way. With Coronavirus, that has all changed.

When you're in a hole, stop digging, Donald. You might end up in, er, well that would be most ironic. :pac:

Water John

Mod, has this thread reached its limit?
Less than six months.

pixelburp

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Senate republicans according to NBC news have distanced themselves from president trump on coronavirus masks. It's the first thing I've seen them distance themselves from him on.

Presumably this surge has put the blowhard arrogance of economy over society in stark relief. While the rest of the world has tentatively tried to restore itself, our flare ups pale compared with the full blown second wave currently gripping the US.

Water John

This is still the first wave in the US. Just most areas have flared up before others.

Quin_Dub

Thread Limit reached

Conversation continues here