Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

EltonJohn69

There will be more revaluations about the Ukraine over the weekend to make it awkward for the republicans.... I wonder who will play Mitch McConnell in the inevitable movie about all this....

Outlaw Pete

sid waddell wrote: »

A hell of a lot of things seem to link back to Putin, actually.

Nah, they don't, or at least not to the degree Schiff and Co think they do. The man is obsessed with Putin and the Kremlin, and with the notion that Trump is constantly trying to please him but then I guess three years of trying to push a fake conspiracy theory on Russia having colluded with Trump to fix an election will have it's affect on you eventually and I think that's what we're seeing with Schiff.


https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1220783325373177862

Maybe I'll email him the following link or something, might help:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/09/25/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/

Midlife

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Not all US democrats are lefties. There are many moderates.

As for what would I say if he lost in the manner you suggest? Eh, I have no idea. 'Crap' maybe?

A few days ago you got all sanctimonious and called the accusation of pressuring Ukraine to investigate for political reasons 'disgusting'.

Disgusting accusations you called them.

Now republicans in the senate are generally accepting them as true.

everlast75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, cause I bet Putin was absolutely delighted with Ukraine finally getting that lethal aid Obama wouldn't give them.

Thank God for the whistleblower eh?

sid waddell

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Nah, they don't, or at least not to the degree Schiff and Co think they do. The man is obsessed with Putin and the Kremlin, and with the notion that Trump is constantly trying to please him but then I guess three years of trying to push a fake conspiracy theory on Russia having colluded with Trump to fix an election will have it's affect on you eventually and I think that's what we're seeing with Schiff.


https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1220783325373177862

Maybe I'll email him the following link or something, might help:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/09/25/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/

"Nah, they don't".

Great argument.

Outlaw Pete

sid waddell wrote: »

"Nah, they don't". Great argument.

My post contained more than those three words. In fact, you quoted them all, yet appear to not have read them.

Midlife wrote: »

A few days ago you got all sanctimonious and called the accusation of pressuring Ukraine to investigate for political reasons 'disgusting' Disgusting accusations you called them.

Eh, no I didn't. Are you referring to this comment?

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

No, what's corrupt is paying for and then leaking disgusting lies about a political opponent in an effort to steal an election or weaponize historial sexual assault allegations. Or FBI officials not informing the FISA court who paid for the lies they are using to spy on a political opponent and then doctoring emails so they can continue to do so. That's corruption.

That whole paragraph was clearly about 2016 and the Steele Dossier. Hence the "paying for" part and so obviously the lies were those which claimed Trump had paid prostitutes to perform golden showers in a bed Obama had slept in:

The allegation that the Russians had recorded Trump watching prostitutes performing a "golden showers (urination) show" on a bed in a Moscow hotel room once occupied by President Obama and wife Michelle was perhaps the most salacious claim made in the Steele dossier, the Hillary Clinton-funded opposition research that falsely alleged ties between the Trump campaign and Russia.

The IG report says the dossier’s named author, ex-British intelligence officer Christopher Steele, had embellished the story, peddling an unproven rumor as verified fact in statements to the FBI.

The IG report states that the FBI knew the story was unverified sometime in January 2017.

Midlife wrote: »

Now republicans in the senate are generally accepting them as true.

Could you link and quite to what you are referring to, as would seem to me you are misrepresenting an argument that was made.

FreeThePants

Who solicited Christopher Steele for his dossier initially?

Outlaw Pete

MSM media are unreal in the states. Clearly biased and act as if they're not.

This is why Trump calls the fake news element of MSM the enemy of the people, they are:


https://twitter.com/WarRoom2020/status/1220844493106294785

aloyisious

Motion to hear witnesses lost 51 - 49, a lot closer than the estimated 53 - 47 of two days ago. It seems Senator Murkowski won the vote for Don, the GOP and Mitch allegedly to avoid having Chief Justice Robert put in a difficult position. I don't know what a tied vote would have forced CJ Roberts to do to solve the impasse. It looks like Senators Romney and Collins may have voted yes to cause the figures fall the way they did.

EDIT: Re the Chief Justices possible action in a tied vote case, mention is made in a link - https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/29/john-roberts-trump-impeachment-trial-109109 - that he could have called for witnesses to be allowed. However I saw another article some weeks back that the senators are not obliged to heed his advice and, by way of a majority vote, ignore his advice.

TomOnBoard

aloyisious wrote: »

Motion to hear witnesses lost 51 - 49, a lot closer than the estimated 53 - 47 of two days ago. It seems Senator Murkowski won the vote for Don, the GOP and Mitch allegedly to avoid having Chief Justice Robert put in a difficult position. I don't know what a tied vote would have forced CJ Roberts to do to solve the impasse.

I call bull**** on Murkowski's alleged rationale. So she's now casting herself in the role of Robert's saviour? Spare me! She's a political tightrope walker whose spine becomes engaged only when she sees political advantage in it back home in Alaska. So she's cloaked subservience to Trump and McConnell in a pathetic pretence at saving the Chief Justice from doing his job! The hypocrisy is staggering!

Christy42

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

MSM media are unreal in the states. Clearly biased and act as if they're not.

This is why Trump calls the fake news element of MSM the enemy of the people, they are:


https://twitter.com/WarRoom2020/status/1220844493106294785

Trump calls them fake news because he disagrees with them. He has used the term to dismiss items that are true. The man has done more to spread fake news than any news channel going. I mean the man seems happy enough with Alex Jones ffs. Fake news has nothing to do with the accuracy of the news and everything to do with how much he likes the story. He calls them the enemy of the people to stoke up hatred towards them so they no longer believe any negative stories about him and only believe his lies.

I mean really. If fake news is the enemy of the people surely Alex Jones is target no. 1 with Trump himself soon after (unless someone has found proof of the birther stuff)?

Remember so many investigations where Trump's story at the start and at the end are completely different? They used a sharpie on a map to cover up for his lack of intelligence. Do you honestly expect anyone to believe he cares that much about the accuracy of the news after that (and many, many other examples)?


I am not sure Trump wants his lawyers in the spotlight more. It never really ends well for them.

sid waddell

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

This is why Trump calls the fake news element of MSM the enemy of the people, they are:

Trump loves fake news and hates real news.

Branding others as "enemies of the people" is what dictators have always done.

It was a particularly favoured term of Stalin, who purged his regime of enemies and executed many thousands of his opponents for kicks.

You're in good company with your use of the term, eh, aren't you?

duploelabs

aloyisious wrote: »

Motion to hear witnesses lost 51 - 49, a lot closer than the estimated 53 - 47 of two days ago. It seems Senator Murkowski won the vote for Don, the GOP and Mitch allegedly to avoid having Chief Justice Robert put in a difficult position. I don't know what a tied vote would have forced CJ Roberts to do to solve the impasse.

Collins and Romney crossed the lines

TomOnBoard

This vote will go down in historical infamy as the greatest undermining of Congressional oversight of the Executive branch, by that branch, EVER! It will be referred to again and again as a justification for any Senate (controlled by either party) to avoid hearing evidence in any future impeachment trial, as well as providing ANY future White House with justification and vindication for refusing to accept Congressional subpoenas.

An already cracked Constitutional Republic became truly fractured tonight. The stain of Mitch Mc Connel on the drawers of US democracy will take decades to erase, if at all.

TomOnBoard

sid waddell wrote: »

Trump loves fake news and hates real news.

Branding others as "enemies of the people" is what dictators have always done.

It was a particularly favoured term of Stalin, who purged his regime of enemies and executed many thousands of his opponents for kicks.

You're in good company with your use of the term, eh, aren't you?

Well said! John Mc Cain, a true hero and a Republican whose record is decorated with much honour, had this to say:

"If ... you want to preserve democracy as we know it, you have to have a free and many times adversarial press. And without it, I am afraid that we would lose so much of our individual liberties over time. That's how dictators get started," he continued.

"They get started by suppressing free press. In other words, a consolidation of power. When you look at history, the first thing that dictators do is shut down the press. And I'm not saying that President Trump is trying to be a dictator. I'm just saying we need to learn the lessons of history," McCain said.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN15Y07R

Outlaw Pete

sid waddell wrote: »

Trump loves fake news and hates real news.

Nope, the opposite.

Branding others as "enemies of the people" is what dictators have always done.

Liars are the enemy of the people, which is what the fake news media are.

Thankfully though, there are some good journalists about, like the example below.

FreeThePants wrote: »

Who solicited Christopher Steele for his dossier initially?

As I posted the other day the notion that republicans paid for the Steele Dossier has been debunked a million times or more at this stage. It's a myth that just will not die it would seem and all stems from MSM anti-Trumpers (deliberately?) misquoting articles which reported that a conservative group (The Free Beacon) had also hired Fusion GPS to look into Trump. They had in fact hired them to research all republicans that were still running, Trump was just one of them, and when he won the nomination (in May 2016) the research on their behalf stopped:

Once more, for good measure: Conservatives didn't fund the Steele dossier

The Washington Free Beacon did not bankroll the Steele dossier, a highly dubious work of opposition research alleging the Russians have compromising personal and financial information on Donald Trump.

Rather, the conservative newsroom hired the same research firm that later created it, Fusion GPS, in 2016 to investigate Trump and other Republican candidates during the GOP primaries.

After Trump had won the nomination, the Free Beacon dropped the project. It was at that point that Democratic operatives swooped in, bringing along with them former British spy Christopher Steele. It is from Steele’s work that we get all this Russia business.

To reiterate, the Free Beacon had nothing to do with Steele or his work on the dossier.

"The Free Beacon had no knowledge of or connection to the Steele dossier, did not pay for the dossier, and never had contact with, knowledge of, or provided payment for any work performed by Christopher Steele. Nor did we have any knowledge of the relationship between Fusion GPS and the Democratic National Committee, Perkins Coie, and the Clinton campaign."

For some reason, though, media keep claiming incorrectly that the Free Beacon ("Republicans") initially funded the Russia file.

CNN’s chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, for example, said specifically last Friday that the Steele dossier was "initially paid for by Republicans."

After he caught flack for this inaccuracy, the former Obama-appointed State Department official responded by tweeting, “Free Beacon was first to hire Fusion GPS to do opposition research on then-candidate Trump.”

At MSNBC, host Katy Tur said in a since-deleted tweet, “Another reminder — Steele Dossier was first paid for by conservative outlet Washington Free Beacon to find damaging info about Trump during the primary in order to help other GOP candidates. REMEMBER — the GOP DID NOT WANT Trump to win the nomination."

She added later in a note of correction, “Fusion GPS was first hired by Washington Free Beacon during the primaries when GOP wanted to help other GOP candidates. Steele was hired later when DNC hired them.”

CBS News’ Alex Wagner meanwhile tweeted, “Also, perhaps one reason the FBI labeled the Steele dossier as ‘politically motivated’ w/o mentioning which party is b/c both conservatives (the Washington Free Beacon) AND Democrats (DNC) were involved in its funding.”

The Associated Press even published a report this weekend claiming, “Steele’s opposition research effort was initially funded by the conservative Washington Free Beacon.” The AP corrected the story later, noting that, “Though the former spy, Christopher Steele, was hired by a firm that was initially funded by the Washington Free Beacon, he did not begin work on the project until after Democratic groups had begun funding it.”

Once more, for good measure: The Free Beacon didn’t initially fund the Steele dossier. They had nothing to do with the former spy’s work. Steel was funded 100 percent by Democratic operatives.

everlast75

Republicans clutch their pearls at the suggestion that anyone who doesn't vote with Trump will be retaliated against...


https://twitter.com/mschlapp/status/1223379382003294208?s=19

Christy42

Liars are the enemy of the people. Says the person supporting lying to the American people via a bloody sharpie.

Or talking about a 40% unemployment rate in his initial rallies.

Or the no quid pro quo (now it is just quid pro quo isn't that bad). Or the birther nonsense. Or the promise of proof that Russia didn't involve itself in the 2016 election. Or talking about crowd sizes. Or manufacturing jobs which he hasn't brought back. How long ago did he declare victory in his talks with North Korea? They had coins made and everything.

If you call liars the enemy of the people and support Trump. I just can't see the logic in that position. It makes no sense. It is like hating soccer players but also idolising Messi. The man ran a fake University. He ran a corrupt charity. What does he need to do to prove he is untrustworthy?

Again. Surely he should have devoted more attention to Alex Jones? (Fun fact the CIA is not making frogs gay).

Outlaw Pete

TomOnBoard wrote: »

This vote will go down in historical infamy as the greatest undermining of Congressional oversight of the Executive branch, by that branch, EVER!

Nonsense. These people tried to use the impeachment process to oust a President from office without having a smidgen of proof of that which they accused him of. I said it all through the congressional hearings and I was laughed at on here but yet again I was shown to be right. When will the democrats and their base learn that false narratives, conjecture and suspicion are not evidence. It's as if there were no lessons learned from the three years of pushing the Trump-Russia nonsense. Believing something has occurred is just not good enough. There has to be evidence of it.

There simply is no case and what the democrats did put forward as evidence of their accusations, actually turned out to support the President's side of things. Like Sondland saying the president never told him the release of the aid was conditional on investigations being carried out or announced. Other witnesses which the democrats called also testified that Trump had withheld aid from other countries, had raised the issue of corruption with the previous president, that he was concerned that other countries in Europe weren't helping out Ukraine as much as he felt they should etc.

Ultimately though the call transcript was the best evidence that Trump was innocent of what was alleged as he told Zelensky why he wanted the Biden-Burisma matter looked into: because there was a lot of talk about it, and Joe had been caught on camera bragging about it, and it sounded horrible to him. That should have been the end of it, especially with Zelensky himself saying Trump never pressured him as the democrats claimed.

The democrats will never live this down. Schiff in particular came across as Walter Mitty esque, unable to decipher fact from fiction.

sid waddell

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Liars are the enemy of the people

So you're saying Trump is an enemy of the people. Gotcha.

sid waddell

everlast75 wrote: »

Republicans clutch their pearls at the suggestion that anyone who doesn't vote with Trump will be retaliated against...


https://twitter.com/mschlapp/status/1223379382003294208?s=19

Snowflakes triggered, they hate free speech.

And Romney only got a "hall pass".

sid waddell

Christy42 wrote: »

Liars are the enemy of the people. Says the person supporting lying to the American people via a bloody sharpie.

Or talking about a 40% unemployment rate in his initial rallies.

Early in Trump's presidency he used to talk about "95 million unemployed", didn't he?

What's the figure he goes with now, I wonder?

Sean.3516

sid waddell wrote: »

Reading your posts and your nonsensical defences of the moron Dershowitz, the first thing that comes to mind is Sideshow Bob trying to claim that the "Die Bart, Die" tattoo on his chest was actuallly German for "The Bart, The" ("no one who speaks German could be an evil man").

Genuinely.

I’m still waiting to hear your point?

sid waddell

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Nonsense. These people tried to use the impeachment process to oust a President from office without having a smidgen of proof of that which they accused him of.

Trump literally admitted it himself and circulated a so called "transcript" of it.

Please refer back to the Father Ted scene where Ted tries to claim he stole Mr. Benson's whistle and then sees Father Damo Lennon say "yeah, I stole it, so wha".

Because that's about the closest analogy we have.

Outlaw Pete

Christy42 wrote: »

Says the person supporting lying to the American people via a bloody sharpie.

He was vindicated on that last time I checked.

Or talking about a 40% unemployment rate in his initial rallies.

If only liberals were as upset about FBI officials lying about innocent people as they are about stats not being accurate at a campaign rally and sharpie marks on maps. Dear God, y'all have strange priorities about what should be ignored and what there should be outrage over.

Or the birther nonsense.

Would ya stop. That started on the Clinton campaign:

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article102354777.html

Or the promise of proof that Russia didn't involve itself in the 2016 election. Or talking about crowd sizes. Or manufacturing jobs which he hasn't brought back. How long ago did he declare victory in his talks with North Korea? They had coins made and everything.

If you call liars the enemy of the people and support Trump. I just can't see the logic in that position. It makes no sense. It is like hating soccer players but also idolising Messi. The man ran a fake University. He ran a corrupt charity. What does he need to do to prove he is untrustworthy?

Again. Surely he should have devoted more attention to Alex Jones? (Fun fact the CIA is not making frogs gay).

So much of the above is deliberate misquoting of Trump to fit a certain narrative, just like saying he called immigrants animals without making it clear he was referring to MS-13 or editing news clips to make it appear as if he has called Neo-Nazis fine people, deliberately not showing the next 50 seconds were he condemns them totally.

Good to see you're rolling out all the oldies though, as it can mean only one thing and that is that you realise this pathetic attempt at ousting Trump from office, under the guise of impeachment, is going nowhere fast.

sid waddell

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I’m still waiting to hear your point?

Cool.

Outlaw Pete

sid waddell wrote: »

Trump literally admitted it himself..

Show me where Trump "literally admitted" abusing his power and where he "literally admitted" that when he asked Zelensky to look into the Biden-Burisma controversy he was doing so to gain an advantage in the 2020 election.

and circulated a so called "transcript" of it.

Nope, as I just said:

"Ultimately though the call transcript was the best evidence that Trump was innocent of what was alleged as he told Zelensky why he wanted the Biden-Burisma matter looked into: because there was a lot of talk about it, and Joe had been caught on camera bragging about it, and it sounded horrible to him."

You see the difference between your argument and mine? Yours is pure conjecture based around having made unreasonable inferences, whereas mine is based on what was actually said.

TomOnBoard

I hope someone feeds Vladimir Putin some sedation tonight, for his own sake, as otherwise he may actually die laughing, as two of his most monstrous schemes came to full fruition on 31st January 2020.

His pet lapdog finally became uncrowned King of the United States, and his 5th columnists in Britain achieved their goal of starting the process of dismantling the European Union.

Never before has an autocratic dictator achieved so much geo-political power on a single day. The Russian Empire is now in the ascendancy, and the once-balancing powers of UK, EU and USA have all been demeaned by their internal fracturing.

September 1st 1939 has resonated for decades throughout the world for the infamy that was propagated on that day. While September 11th 2001 remains in modern minds as another day of infamy, it does not compare in its scope and effect to 1939. In time, January 31st, 2020 may, regrettably, be seen as a pivotal date on which a new world order began, that made things very much worse, and rowed back on 75 years of progress towards world peace.

Outlaw Pete

sid waddell wrote: »

So you're saying Trump is an enemy of the people. Gotcha.

Nope, I was referring to those who quote someone out of context to make it look as if they have said something which they have not. Just as you have done right now in fact. Seems to be a theme with the left, this quoting people out of context all the time.

marno21

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I hope someone feeds Vladimir Putin some sedation tonight, for his own sake, as otherwise he may actually die laughing, as two of his most monstrous schemes came to full fruition on 31st January 2020.

His pet lapdog finally became uncrowned King of the United States, and his 5th columnists in Britain achieved their goal of starting the process of dismantling the European Union.

Never before has an autocratic dictator achieved so much geo-political power on a single day. The Russian Empire is now in the ascendancy, and the once-balancing powers of UK, EU and USA have all been demeaned by their internal fracturing.

September 1st 1939 has resonated for decades throughout the world for the infamy that was propagated on that day. While September 11th 2001 remains in modern minds as another day of infamy, it does not compare in its scope and effect to 1939. In time, January 31st, 2020 may, regrettably, be seen as a pivotal date on which a new world order began, that made things very much worse, and rowed back on 75 years of progress towards world peace.

I was thinking the same earlier - and it's difficult to decide who to award more credit to - Putin or Murdoch. Both foreigners who have ruined two powerful democracies by removing facts, logic and reasoning in favour of two outright cults.

And it's worse its getting. Looking forward to November 4th when the election result is "fake news".