Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Red for Danger

everlast75 wrote: »

1. Biggest gain by the House in the midterms since Nixon
2. impeached a corrupt President
3. Got Trump to back down and embarrassed him when he shut down the government.

A fourth achievement could probably be achieving free rent inside his head.

Her job has been to look after the interests of working and middle class people.

How have the lives of ordinary Americans faired out when compared to that of other developed nations during Pelosi's time?

She should be ashamed of herself when she considers the misery shes has poured out across nation over the years.

As for embarrassing trump and so on, she can be doing that in her own time. After she's done the job she being paid to do.
Trump and his gang have can act the fool all they want as their work is complete in fact they've outdone themselves.

Timberrrrrrrr

Red for Danger wrote: »

Her job has been to look after the interests of working and middle class people.

How have the lives of ordinary Americans faired out when compared to that of other developed nations during Pelosi's time?

She should be ashamed of herself when she considers the misery shes has poured out across nation over the years.

As for embarrassing trump and so on, she can be doing that in her own time. After she's done the job she being paid to do.
Trump and his gang have can act the fool all they want as their work is complete in fact they've outdone themselves.

Should Trump not be held to the same standard vis a vis his golfing? Remember this is the man who tweeted about obama playing a few rounds of golf and has surpassed obama by how many days golfing?

Midlife

Red for Danger wrote: »

Her job has been to look after the interests of working and middle class people.

How have the lives of ordinary Americans faired out when compared to that of other developed nations during Pelosi's time?

She should be ashamed of herself when she considers the misery shes has poured out across nation over the years.

As for embarrassing trump and so on, she can be doing that in her own time. After she's done the job she being paid to do.
Trump and his gang have can act the fool all they want as their work is complete in fact they've outdone themselves.

I can't make sense of this.

Are you saying Pelosi has to look after people but Trump's work is done?

peddlelies

Very petty from the dignified adult Pelosi. Whether Trump snubbed her or not it was stupid to do what she did.

duploelabs

peddlelies wrote: »

Very petty from the dignified adult Pelosi. Whether Trump snubbed her or not it was stupid to do what she did.

Sleepy Joe

Nervous Nancy

Sloopy Steve


I could go own, but it's not like Trump should be held accountable for 'stupid' or childish things

peddlelies

duploelabs wrote: »

Sleepy Joe

Nervous Nancy

Sloopy Steve


I could go own, but it's not like Trump should be held accountable for 'stupid' or childish things

Missing the point, Dem's stance is that Trump is a man child and they are the adult party which will bring back dignity to the office.

Pelosi's actions don't go along with that.

pixelburp

peddlelies wrote: »

Very petty from the dignified adult Pelosi. Whether Trump snubbed her or not it was stupid to do what she did.

I dunno, she has suffocated the SotU address and taken the limelight from Trump. Ostensibly a bullish gesture, but the fact she did the tearing in a three, considered moments says this was calculated. Perhaps at the start of his term, politicians didn't quite know how to handle Trump's wild & vulgar style, but 3 years in and he's a fairly transparent, simple person to kick against. Just rob him of his limelight, whereupon he'll lose the plot. He's very easily rattled if you rob him of his oxygen.

And by and large, that SotU address was designed to rattle and divide; the Limbaugh medal a clear enough indicator by its own right, alongside the reaction from the likes of Trump Jr. Trump wanted to "own the libs" with his speech, so instead Pelosi made it about her. Nobody's talking, or outraged over, that address and instead it's about Trump & his acolytes' reactions to some tearing of paper. They've played straight into Pelosi's hands IMO.

Red for Danger

Midlife wrote: »

I can't make sense of this.

Are you saying Pelosi has to look after people but Trump's work is done?

Yeah
5 years ago. not a million years could the rich have hoped he would be able protect their money but he did just that and then went out and got them even more.

duploelabs

peddlelies wrote: »

Missing the point, Dem's stance is that Trump is a man child and they are the adult party which will bring back dignity to the office.

Pelosi's actions don't go along with that.

As I said earlier

duploelabs wrote: »

Whats even juicier is that it's straight out the Trump playbook, pull off an unorthodox move to control the narrative and irk his opposition

peddlelies

duploelabs wrote: »

As I said earlier

So the claims of dignity of the office and being morally superior are just political games then? Colour me shocked.

pixelburp

peddlelies wrote: »

So the claims of dignity of the office and being morally superior are just political games then? Colour me shocked.

I think we can work out some kind of sliding scale of Political Dignity here; if we go from ... I dunno, FDR to unfiltered Donald Trump on full Rage / Waffle Mode, Pelosi's actions, while doubtlessly calculated to suffocate the publicity of the Address, falls way short of the kind of excess set by #45. If we're to be outraged by her, then surely we must look back on - say - Lynden Johnson's infamous close looming over people as an intimidation technique and condemn it all?

Trump's address was a garbage fire that again showed his claims to be a unifier as utterly false and disingenuous; Pelosi out manoeuvred his partisan gesture with her own. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I respect the gamesmanship to ensure an intentionally acerbic speech is ignored.

peddlelies

pixelburp wrote: »

I think we can work out some kind of sliding scale of Political Dignity here; if we go from ... I dunno, FDR to unfiltered Donald Trump on full Rage / Waffle Mode, Pelosi's actions, while doubtlessly calculated to suffocate the publicity of the Address, falls way short of the kind of excess set by #45. If we're to be outraged by her, then surely we must look back on - say - Lynden Johnson's infamous close looming over people as an intimidation technique and condemn it all?

Trump's address was a garbage fire that again showed his claims to be a unifier as utterly false and disingenuous; Pelosi out manoeuvred his partisan gesture with her own. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I respect the gamesmanship to ensure an intentionally acerbic speech is ignored.

I'm not outraged at all and I could care less about the partisan dick waving contest that is the SOTU address, merely pointing out that imo for a party who tries to portray itself as the moral choice and to bring dignity to the office in 2020 it was a foolish thing to do and will be played back now in all the attack ads all the way up to the election.

pixelburp

peddlelies wrote: »

I'm not outraged at all and I could care less about the partisan dick waving contest that is the SOTU address, merely pointing out that imo for a party who tries to portray itself as the moral choice and to bring dignity to the office in 2020 it was a foolish thing to do and will be played back now in all the attack ads all the way up to the election.

In fairness, as said in the Election thread, the Republicans are going to attack attack attack regardless of what Pelosi does or doesn't do. No political marketeer even went hungry ploughing the "baby killing, gun stealing, tax & spend Democrats" campaigns. Sanders, Warren, Biden and Buttigieg will supply more than enough ammunition for vulgar campaigns.

I think Pelosi knows she's this figure of hate, simply leaning into it, possibly as a sacrificial move? Once upon a time I'd have agreed with you, that the Democrats should maintain a course of "going high" to paraphrase Michelle Obama; they tried that though, and never worked. I suspect the meetings during that government shutdown were the watershed. You can't shame the man either, so what else can work? Well, only to him of his one weakness: publicity & coverage. If Trump insists on an aggressive, partisan tone in his ostensible duties, then sure, I think Pelosi made the right move by making herself the story.

But then it's the Donald Trump Presidency: next week there'll be something else he'll have said or done, and the cycle will continue. Not like his actual legislative decisions are being scrutinised, landmine restoration sneaking under the radar.

duploelabs

everlast75 wrote: »

This is the tweet from the Secretary of State.

*This*

https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1224910919697944576?s=20

He doesn't think it is important to defend his staff from attacks from the president, but he can find time to tweet this?

(Incidentally, Lisa was crying because she found out the speech was nothing more than a rhetorical device to justify corruption)

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/481574-former-simpsons-writer-slams-pompeo-tweet-please-do-not-ever-ever

A former writer for “The Simpsons” on Wednesday ripped Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for using a snapshot from the show to knock Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), saying “please do not ever ever ever use Simpsons material in your twitter or watch the show or refer to it in any way.”

Bill Oakley, along with his writing partner Josh Weinstein, was the executive producer and showrunner during the seventh and eighth seasons of the long-running animated sitcom.

He took to Twitter after President Trump’s State of the Union to make the request of Pompeo, who tweeted an image of Lisa Simpson tearfully ripping up a sheet of paper — an apparent dig at Pelosi after the Speaker tore a copy of the president's speech at the end of the address Tuesday night.

“Mr. Secretary of State please do not ever ever ever use Simpsons material in your twitter or watch the show or refer to it in any way,” Oakley wrote.

Christy42

peddlelies wrote: »

I'm not outraged at all and I could care less about the partisan dick waving contest that is the SOTU address, merely pointing out that imo for a party who tries to portray itself as the moral choice and to bring dignity to the office in 2020 it was a foolish thing to do and will be played back now in all the attack ads all the way up to the election.

Time and again this comes up. Right wing people are allowed to insult left wing but not the other way around. Left wing has to be perfect. At which point they are boring and can't compete with his showmanship and shouldn't have been boring.

People are just looking for an excuse to say why they voted for the racist manchild and will find one. They don't want to admit to themselves why they are voting racist, sexist candidate.

All Dems need to do is act more dignified than Trump. Given he used the day to honour someone with incredibly massively sexist views (his gave out about left wing people calling the "rape police" when there sex without consent) that really opens the door.

If people want to bring dignity back to politics then Trump has to go along with most of the Republicans. Till then their own actions are far worse. Pelosi's voters want her to stand up to Trump and she is doing that.

Gbear

If John Boenher or whoever had torn up the state of the union speech for Obama, most liberals wouldn't really have given a ****.

Just because some people like to feign indignation to attempt to unjustifiably seize the moral ground (made all the more absurd when those attempting to seize it support a regime that puts children in concentration camps), doesn't mean we join them in that race to the bottom.

The sanctimony that pervades American culture is nauseating at times.

Ultimately I think it's part of a strategy to undermine arguments against the substance of issues in favour of arguments about the trivial window dressing and pageantry of US politics.

everlast75

sid waddell wrote: »

The podcast Gaslit Nation has predicted all this at every step of the way and has been miles ahead of the corporate owned media in its analysis. Required listening.

https://www.patreon.com/gaslit

I used to think that pod was O.T.T. but it turned out to be scarily accurate.

Trump's interference in the postal system, the navy, the army, NOAA, national archive... it's rampant.

https://pca.st/trumpinc

A fantastic pod in general but this episode about the FEC and how it's been hamstrung is frightening.

StringerBell

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1225073838976831488?s=20

Back to work for the Dems.

Let's see how Bolton responds.

I actually think they should proceed very carefully with that from now on. They have had their shot at impeachment this term, like it or not and it gives free material to the Trumpets for the election.

The case was made, the corruption could not be more blatant not the obstruction and the Trumpets in the senate have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are complicit with this behaviour.

Pelosi has always had great political instincts, and I hope she does her due diligence on how to proceed when the acquittal is confirmed.

The stuff from Bolton will come out anyway, and plenty more shoes will drop. There may be more value to letting it play out in the media, letting the republicans have to try to stave off questions about why they didn't want to get to the bottom of things when they had the power to do so, the comparisons between this and Benghazi can be further contrasted.

I don't know which way I'd go with it myself but I'd definitely give it strong consideration before going back to the impeachment well, they did their job. The Republicans failed in theirs, hammer that message home as each sordid detail comes out closing in on the election by the virtue of the likes of Bolton being only too happy to do the circuit when promoting his book.

serfboard

StringerBell wrote: »

The stuff from Bolton will come out anyway, and plenty more shoes will drop. There may be more value to letting it play out in the media, letting the republicans have to try to stave off questions about why they didn't want to get to the bottom of things when they had the power to do so, the comparisons between this and Benghazi can be further contrasted.

God bless your faith in the American media - it'll be nothing more than he said/she said accusation and counter-accusation wherein nothing gets learned.

EltonJohn69

Romney to vote to impeach Trump, I wonder how trump will react ?

StringerBell

Red for Danger wrote: »

Her job has been to look after the interests of working and middle class people.

How have the lives of ordinary Americans faired out when compared to that of other developed nations during Pelosi's time?

She should be ashamed of herself when she considers the misery shes has poured out across nation over the years.

As for embarrassing trump and so on, she can be doing that in her own time. After she's done the job she being paid to do.
Trump and his gang have can act the fool all they want as their work is complete in fact they've outdone themselves.

Probably look over to the stack of papers just sitting in Moscow Mitch's office that he doesn't bring to the senate. You understand how the American system works right?

Cody montana

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Romney to vote to impeach Trump, I wonder how trump will react ?

Rage tweet.

StringerBell

serfboard wrote: »

God bless your faith in the American media - it'll be nothing more than he said/she said accusation and counter-accusation wherein nothing gets learned.

There is no faith needed, the media will report on the shoes that drop. It's in their interests to. That's what you can rely on the media to do, whatever is best for the bottom line.

Manic Moran

FionnK86 wrote: »

She’s a legend. That will really enrage him.

Two articles on CNN worth looking at this morning, difficult to argue with either of them.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/politics/nancy-pelosi-rip-2020-state-of-the-union/index.html

Liberals celebrated Pelosi's move as an act of defiance -- a demonstration of the frustration, annoyance and contempt with which she (and they) viewed Trump's heavily political (and theatrical) speech. Conservatives (and Trump allies) seized on the moment as a sign of the petulance and childishness of both Pelosi and her party, still unable to come to grips with the fact that Trump is president.

Not only do the two parties disagree on the correct policy prescriptions to fix what ails the country -- nothing new there! -- but they also now simply detest one another. They struggle to spend time in the same room or even be cordial to one another

What I have found interesting about my various twitter, FB and forum feeds this morning has been the silence from one particular demographic. I have seen the above reactions from the folks on both sides. My ardent conservative friends are there going "She has shot herself in the foot with that embarassing move", whilst my strident progressive friends are all going "With that one move, she undermined the entire speech". The crowd I've noticed who are keeping their own counsel are the ones I find tend not to be particularly disposed towards partisanship. It's not being mentioned at all. It may not be as definitive and conclusive a gesture as either side claims.

The other is whether or not these people are paying any attention to it at all in the first place. For example, the below from CNN, but the BBC caught this play as well. https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/opinions/trump-state-of-the-union-iowa-caucus-jones/index.html

On the flip side, the comments Trump was clearly addressing to African-Americans can be effective -- and are a huge warning for Democrats, even if they do not want to hear it.

[...]

There is this liberal bubble that believes that 98% of black women and 81% of black men will always vote for the Democrat, as they did for Hillary Clinton in 2016, according to Pew. But what Trump said Tuesday night to black voters was this: look at my record and what I am doing for black people. He is going to narrowcast that message, and it only takes small margins to shatter the Democratic winning coalition.

On the one hand, you have Pelosi ripping his speech. The same speech in which he (accurately enough) observed a bunch of things that are going better for african-americans in the US.

serfboard

StringerBell wrote: »

the media will report on the shoes that drop

To be followed by: "And now for reaction on that we go to John Doe for the Republicans and Jane Doe for the Democrats", who will talk over each other such that the facts get lost.

StringerBell

serfboard wrote: »

To be followed by: "And now for reaction on that we go to John Doe for the Republicans and Jane Doe for the Democrats", who will talk over each other such that the facts get lost.

That's not important though. I think your trying to read something in to my post that isn't there the more I think about it.

AbusesToilets

Manic Moran wrote: »

Two articles on CNN worth looking at this morning, difficult to argue with either of them.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/politics/nancy-pelosi-rip-2020-state-of-the-union/index.html

Liberals celebrated Pelosi's move as an act of defiance -- a demonstration of the frustration, annoyance and contempt with which she (and they) viewed Trump's heavily political (and theatrical) speech. Conservatives (and Trump allies) seized on the moment as a sign of the petulance and childishness of both Pelosi and her party, still unable to come to grips with the fact that Trump is president.

Not only do the two parties disagree on the correct policy prescriptions to fix what ails the country -- nothing new there! -- but they also now simply detest one another. They struggle to spend time in the same room or even be cordial to one another

What I have found interesting about my various twitter, FB and forum feeds this morning has been the silence from one particular demographic. I have seen the above reactions from the folks on both sides. My ardent conservative friends are there going "She has shot herself in the foot with that embarassing move", whilst my strident progressive friends are all going "With that one move, she undermined the entire speech". The crowd I've noticed who are keeping their own counsel are the ones I find tend not to be particularly disposed towards partisanship. It's not being mentioned at all. It may not be as definitive and conclusive a gesture as either side claims.

The other is whether or not these people are paying any attention to it at all in the first place. For example, the below from CNN, but the BBC caught this play as well. https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/opinions/trump-state-of-the-union-iowa-caucus-jones/index.html

On the flip side, the comments Trump was clearly addressing to African-Americans can be effective -- and are a huge warning for Democrats, even if they do not want to hear it.

[...]

There is this liberal bubble that believes that 98% of black women and 81% of black men will always vote for the Democrat, as they did for Hillary Clinton in 2016, according to Pew. But what Trump said Tuesday night to black voters was this: look at my record and what I am doing for black people. He is going to narrowcast that message, and it only takes small margins to shatter the Democratic winning coalition.

On the one hand, you have Pelosi ripping his speech. The same speech in which he (accurately enough) observed a bunch of things that are going better for african-americans in the US.

I should think the Democrats would be able to effectively counter such messaging, both nationally and locally, by pointing to the many examples of Trump undermining not just black communities but poor communities as a whole. That allied to his continued support and endorsement of bigoted, and supremacist institutions should be a stark reminder of exactly where his and the Republican party's true feelings lie. I hope that the Democratic party will widely publicize and highlight Republicans continued efforts at state levels to disenfranchise and deny black and other minority communities the opportunity to participate in the upcoming election.

valoren

Pelosi tearing up her copy was beautiful. Her action spoke a thousand words, needed no translation and was the political equivalent of the My Cousin Vinny quote: "Everything that guy just said...is BS"

Stallingrad

Mitt Romney has just reminded the world that there is hope for America.

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Two articles on CNN worth looking at this morning, difficult to argue with either of them.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/politics/nancy-pelosi-rip-2020-state-of-the-union/index.html

Liberals celebrated Pelosi's move as an act of defiance -- a demonstration of the frustration, annoyance and contempt with which she (and they) viewed Trump's heavily political (and theatrical) speech. Conservatives (and Trump allies) seized on the moment as a sign of the petulance and childishness of both Pelosi and her party, still unable to come to grips with the fact that Trump is president.

Not only do the two parties disagree on the correct policy prescriptions to fix what ails the country -- nothing new there! -- but they also now simply detest one another. They struggle to spend time in the same room or even be cordial to one another

What I have found interesting about my various twitter, FB and forum feeds this morning has been the silence from one particular demographic. I have seen the above reactions from the folks on both sides. My ardent conservative friends are there going "She has shot herself in the foot with that embarassing move", whilst my strident progressive friends are all going "With that one move, she undermined the entire speech". The crowd I've noticed who are keeping their own counsel are the ones I find tend not to be particularly disposed towards partisanship. It's not being mentioned at all. It may not be as definitive and conclusive a gesture as either side claims.

The other is whether or not these people are paying any attention to it at all in the first place. For example, the below from CNN, but the BBC caught this play as well. https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/opinions/trump-state-of-the-union-iowa-caucus-jones/index.html

On the flip side, the comments Trump was clearly addressing to African-Americans can be effective -- and are a huge warning for Democrats, even if they do not want to hear it.

[...]

There is this liberal bubble that believes that 98% of black women and 81% of black men will always vote for the Democrat, as they did for Hillary Clinton in 2016, according to Pew. But what Trump said Tuesday night to black voters was this: look at my record and what I am doing for black people. He is going to narrowcast that message, and it only takes small margins to shatter the Democratic winning coalition.

On the one hand, you have Pelosi ripping his speech. The same speech in which he (accurately enough) observed a bunch of things that are going better for african-americans in the US.

And claimed credit for the several health policies which he has been fighting with Democrats to actively stop. The ripping up the speech is a small piece of symbolism. I imagine most non partisan people simply don't care. Or if they really cared have been equally annoyed at Trump ignoring the handshake gesture.

Democrats are amused by it but I doubt anyone thinks it will end Trump so you seem to overstating that one. The state of the union address rarely matters that much. Especially to Trump given how polarising he has been. Pelosi has taken the wind out of Trump's state of the union address which is a minor win but a win nonetheless. Most people have already forgotten the content of the speech.

Trump doesn't have the intelligence to narrowcast such a message. There is a reason his previous ones were limited to 3 single syllable words.

I would argue that the only reason things have gotten any better for black people is that he failed when he tried to remove their healthcare.