Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

everlast75

RIGOLO wrote: »

Your points are just opinion that have no bearing in the reality of what has actually happened under the Trump administration as born out by the facts and the numbers.

Women have made up over 70% of new jobs in America. Women have recovered 70% of the decline in their participation rate from 2000 to 2015.
If you ask me thats doing ALOT for Women

Launching Space Force, return to the Moon, Made In America program , The 2017 Trump Executive order for improved Apprenticeship program, clampdown on China IP theft, rejection of non-US 5G technology, driving US companies to have US based/friendly supply chains ... just some of the many measures made to advance US technology

Debt is spiraling cos Obama spent 9Trillion getting 2% GDP, Trump has spent 1trillion getting over 3%. As soon as the non-discretionary spending controls they want kick in in the second term, things will balance a bit better. And now that the Fed is playing ball also.

Improved Tax credits for working people with children, increasing their allowance, and more importantly making it a refundable tax credit.

Tensions with China , have resulted in a more balanced US-China Trade Deficit it fell by over 50billion in 2019 and thats even with Boeings woes.

Tensions with Canada, not a problem, the USMCA Trade deal announced and signed

He undid crippling regulations - thats why buisness is booming . New Regulations were growing by some measures at 8% a year. Trumps EO that for every one new regulation, 3 had to be removed was instrumental in this.

Support for minority communities, well jobs are exploding in that demographic , you can goggle The Young Black Leadership Summit at White House, they seem happy.

The IEA announced that CO2 emmissions for the US were down in 2019 . Thats the international energy Agency The United States saw the largest decline in energy-related CO2 emissions in 2019 on a country basis – a fall of 140 Mt, or 2.9%, to 4.8 Gt. US emissions are now down almost 1 Gt from their peak in the year 2000, the largest absolute decline by any country over that period.

north Korea - They had 4 nuclear tests during OBAMAs reign and we had no summits, going from 5 to 25 kiloton.
Under Trump they had one , but have had 3-4 summits. Thats progress.
The list goes on and on ..

What Trump has done is a long term legacy that the Democrats and the left can never take away from him and his administration. The histroy has already been written on it, its too late. Its over Trump won round 1, lets see if the Dems can take Round 2 with Bernie Sanders .

I too can drive around in brand new cars and for all appearances, I am doing quite well. However, if I have 10 credit cars and am up to my neck in debt, then no - I am not doing well.

He added 3 trillion to the national debt.

C'mon Rigolo - you're a figures man apparently. Can't you see that this boasting about his economy is all smoke and mirrors?

kilns

It was not rocket science to see what was going to happen, he is not very intelligent and is not a very good businessman, he wracks up huge debt, restructures and puts up stuff as collateral. He cant continue to that with a country, someones going to have to pay and its the American people in a few years time who are going to be realising what deep sh1t they are actually in and the next presidents are going to be unpopular as they are going to have to raise taxes to try and clean up his mess.

However, you have to give him credit for being the greatest snake oil salesman alive currently

BorneTobyWilde

He'll win again easily, no one is stepping up that is capable of beating Trump. Harrison Ford would have beating him, but he's always on the sidelines of so many UN and political events but never throws his hat in the ring.

Penn

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

He'll win again easily, no one is stepping up that is capable of beating Trump. Harrison Ford would have beating him, but he's always on the sidelines of so many UN and political events but never throws his hat in the ring.

... Harrison Ford... ???

Is this really where we are now? Has Trump sunk the bar so low that even with the likes of Sanders and Warren running, we're at "Oh if only Harrison Ford put himself forward for it the Dems might be in with a shot..."

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's looking like none of them might beat Trump. But where the hell are you pulling Harrison Ford from?

If Trump has taught us anything (and it's a complete accident on his part if he has), it's that we need politicians in the highest political positions, not celebrities. At least even Ronald Reagan was a governor for a few years.

everlast75

Penn wrote: »

... Harrison Ford... ???

Is this really where we are now? Has Trump sunk the bar so low that even with the likes of Sanders and Warren running, we're at "Oh if only Harrison Ford put himself forward for it the Dems might be in with a shot..."

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's looking like none of them might beat Trump. But where the hell are you pulling Harrison Ford from?

If Trump has taught us anything (and it's a complete accident on his part if he has), it's that we need politicians in the highest political positions, not celebrities. At least even Ronald Reagan was a governor for a few years.

The key to beating Trump is the dems not eviscerating each other over who is and who isn't a socialist. The election for the campaign has to be whether people want 4 more years of Trump and an analyses of what he has done to the US both domestically and abroad.

Call Me Jimmy

everlast75 wrote: »

The key to beating Trump is the dems not eviscerating each other over who is and who isn't a socialist.

Why would they not do that? The party is splitting in two like Labour, so it makes sense that candidates split on similar lines. You could argue the dems have been doing themselves no favors papering over each other's cracks calling for unity. In the general election all the differences in values will be under the microscope and there will be no hiding. Bloomberg v Bernie is the question and I think there's going to be a lot of unofficial, announced and unannounced defection in 2020.

everlast75

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Why would they not do that? The party is splitting in two like Labour, so it makes sense that candidates split on similar lines. You could argue the dems have been doing themselves no favors papering over each other's cracks calling for unity. In the general election all the differences in values will be under the microscope and there will be no hiding. Bloomberg v Bernie is the question and I think there's going to be a lot of unofficial, announced and unannounced defection in 2020.

Trump supporters shouldn't be rubbing their hands together with glee. The Republican Party has been split in two by Trump. The amount of people that have left has been astonishing. That is why Trump, when polled amongst those that are still Republicans, has approval ratings so high.

The time is ripe for each of the two parties to be split in two being honest.

Call Me Jimmy

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump supporters shouldn't be rubbing their hands together with glee. The Republican Party has been split in two by Trump. The amount of people that have left has been astonishing. That is why Trump, when polled amongst those that are still Republicans, has approval ratings so high.

The time is ripe for each of the two parties to be split in two being honest.

Aye agree they have both split but I think Trump supporters should be rubbing their hands together because they have already split down establishment anti-establishment lines and the party has held together successfully. Yes there are losses but not game-ending ones.

The democrats are also splitting down similar establishment lines but it's more convoluted by the socialist vs capitalist dimension. I think when Trump and Bernie are gone (maybe even before then), a subset of their supporters will find more in common with each other than with those in their own party. However no republicans are socialist, while many democrats are capitalists (but want public healthcare). So there's a dovetail there in my opinion.

But importantly, and honestly, how do you see Bernie supporters supporting Bloomberg, or Bloomberg supporters (and Clinton supporters) throwing their weight behind Bernie when they've already tried to openly shaft him on multiple occasions? What way does that play out do you think?

kilns

I always have to laugh at how uneducated Americans are when it comes to socialism and their fear of it

kilns

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Aye agree they have both split but I think Trump supporters should be rubbing their hands together because they have already split down establishment anti-establishment lines and the party has held together successfully. Yes there are losses but not game-ending ones.

The democrats are also splitting down similar establishment lines but it's more convoluted by the socialist vs capitalist dimension. I think when Trump and Bernie are gone (maybe even before then), a subset of their supporters will find more in common with each other than with those in their own party. However no republicans are socialist, while many democrats are capitalists (but want public healthcare). So there's a dovetail there in my opinion.

But importantly, and honestly, how do you see Bernie supporters supporting Bloomberg, or Bloomberg supporters (and Clinton supporters) throwing their weight behind Bernie when they've already tried to openly shaft him on multiple occasions? What way does that play out do you think?

You dont have to actively go out and cnavass and support for them, its amazing how people can unite against a common enemy

everlast75

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Aye agree they have both split but I think Trump supporters should be rubbing their hands together because they have already split down establishment anti-establishment lines and the party has held together successfully. Yes there are losses but not game-ending ones.

The democrats are also splitting down similar establishment lines but it's more convoluted by the socialist vs capitalist dimension. I think when Trump and Bernie are gone (maybe even before then), a subset of their supporters will find more in common with each other than with those in their own party. However no republicans are socialist, while many democrats are capitalists (but want public healthcare). So there's a dovetail there in my opinion.

But importantly, and honestly, how do you see Bernie supporters supporting Bloomberg, or Bloomberg supporters (and Clinton supporters) throwing their weight behind Bernie when they've already tried to openly shaft him on multiple occasions? What way does that play out do you think?

I don't think Bloomberg will win the nomination. I think everyone, apart from Sanders, will support whoever does win the nomination.

I think Bloomberg has already pledged to support whoever wins, so I don't see a huge problem, save with Sanders and Bernie.

I think Bloomberg is causing far more problems for Trump with his adds, so I see him serving a purpose.

Full disclosure - I hope Warren gets it.

kilns

I think all the Dem candidates who get the nomination will beat Trump and beat him well except Sanders. That would be a 50/50 call, as Trump could paint him as the big scary communist that stupid Americans fear.

I personally hope its Warren

listermint

Tbh I can see Dems rowing in behind whomever he candidate is.

Trump has take it too far. There's huge distaste for him in any normal household over there.

Trump ain't winning again. You can hold me to that.

Leroy42

Most of the polls show that any of the current DNC probables will beat Trump. Some by many points.

And without HC to scare people Trump has lost one of his biggest assets. Drain the Swamp won't hold the same sway as he had had 4 years. Build the wall, again, he will continue to use it but people have seen it for what it is. It's not the simple answer he made it out to be, he is taking money from the military to try to get anything done. How will that go down in military areas away from the border?

He can no longer claim to be able to clear the debt, he has made a mess of that. He cannot claim to clean up DC, it is worse than ever (and you can argue that it is because of the DNC but it was something he said he could fix and clearly cannot).

He continues to hold a solid base, and there doesn't seem to be any DNC candidate that will easily beat him. But most of his advantages from 2016 are gone and he has done little to create new ones.

It is very possible he could win again, the incumbent carries an advantage, but it is far from a given and it should be very worrying to Trump and his supporters that despite him being basically wall to wall coverage, he has not been able to increase his standing. Once the DNC do select a candidate, the coverage will ramp up and people that are not paying much attention now will start to consider their options

Christy42

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump supporters shouldn't be rubbing their hands together with glee. The Republican Party has been split in two by Trump. The amount of people that have left has been astonishing. That is why Trump, when polled amongst those that are still Republicans, has approval ratings so high.

The time is ripe for each of the two parties to be split in two being honest.

The system stops that from happening. As soon as it splits it becomes 50% vs 25% vs 25% and they become irrelevant and so they need to conform to the louder section of the party or become irrelevant. Hence Trump. They have to support him or split the party and become irrelevant.

kilns

Leroy42 wrote: »

Most of the polls show that any of the current DNC probables will beat Trump. Some by many points.

And without HC to scare people Trump has lost one of his biggest assets. Drain the Swamp won't hold the same sway as he had had 4 years. Build the wall, again, he will continue to use it but people have seen it for what it is. It's not the simple answer he made it out to be, he is taking money from the military to try to get anything done. How will that go down in military areas away from the border?

He can no longer claim to be able to clear the debt, he has made a mess of that. He cannot claim to clean up DC, it is worse than ever (and you can argue that it is because of the DNC but it was something he said he could fix and clearly cannot).

He continues to hold a solid base, and there doesn't seem to be any DNC candidate that will easily beat him. But most of his advantages from 2016 are gone and he has done little to create new ones.

It is very possible he could win again, the incumbent carries an advantage, but it is far from a given and it should be very worrying to Trump and his supporters that despite him being basically wall to wall coverage, he has not been able to increase his standing. Once the DNC do select a candidate, the coverage will ramp up and people that are not paying much attention now will start to consider their options

Bernie is as close to Hillary as he can get and he desperate for him to win the nomination so he can paint him as the boogeyman, its is only hope

Leroy42

kilns wrote: »

Bernie is as close to Hillary as he can get and he desperate for him to win the nomination so he can paint him as the boogeyman, its is only hope

Very true, and it is clear that they will run with the "he is a socialist out to steal all your money" line.

And that is grand, as far as it goes. But he isn't close to being as divisive as HC. HC was not liked by some even within her own party. For many, even on here, when pressed how they had voted for Trump given all the shortfalls and, quite frankly, the usually excluding things about him, many would state that HC was far worse.

Bernie doesn't carry that same level and so I still cannot see where the extra votes come from. So again, we are back to a handfull (relatively) number of votes in 2 or 3 states.

Again, I am not saying he cannot win, of course he can, but the path looks difficult, and certainly far more difficult than it should be given that his supporters never tire of telling us how brilliant he is. It seems the people of the US are not so sure.

kilns

If Democrats were cynical about winning they need to be ruthless and identify what states do we need to win, forget California, New York, Alabama, Kentucky etc they are all decided. What are the key swing states and what candidate is most likely to win them. Sanders may be the most popular nationwide but to win the contest who cares about that, it only matters what places like Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio and Florida think

American democracy for you

Gbear

everlast75 wrote: »

I don't think Bloomberg will win the nomination. I think everyone, apart from Sanders, will support whoever does win the nomination.

I think Bloomberg has already pledged to support whoever wins, so I don't see a huge problem, save with Sanders and Bernie.

I think Bloomberg is causing far more problems for Trump with his adds, so I see him serving a purpose.

Full disclosure - I hope Warren gets it.

Sanders has been one of the most outspoken about pledging his support for whoever wins the nomination.

He has been running like a unity candidate, constantly trying to pull the corporate side of the Democratic party along, but they're not having any of it.

I ultimately don't support a lot of what Sanders is in favour of, but I would vote for him without any hesitation in a primary (if I had ranked choice, I'd give Warren 2nd), because you get the impression that he's actually genuine, that he's far more pragmatic than he gets credit for, and that he's running in good faith in a way you cannot be sure of almost any other candidate.

Biden doesn't even look like he wants to be President, I can't rightly tell you what Klobuchar actually believes in, Buttigieg is pretending to be offering something new while running stagnant old fashioned politics of the corporate right wing of the Democratic party, and Bloomberg is literally a Republican.

briany

Gbear wrote: »

Sanders has been one of the most outspoken about pledging his support for whoever wins the nomination.

He has been running like a unity candidate, constantly trying to pull the corporate side of the Democratic party along, but they're not having any of it.

I ultimately don't support a lot of what Sanders is in favour of, but I would vote for him without any hesitation in a primary (if I had ranked choice, I'd give Warren 2nd), because you get the impression that he's actually genuine, that he's far more pragmatic than he gets credit for, and that he's running in good faith in a way you cannot be sure of almost any other candidate.

Biden doesn't even look like he wants to be President, I can't rightly tell you what Klobuchar actually believes in, Buttigieg is pretending to be offering something new while running stagnant old fashioned politics of the corporate right wing of the Democratic party, and Bloomberg is literally a Republican.

I'm interested as to why there is such a thing as Corporate Democrats. You'd think anyone in America who's very wealthy would be more into the Republicans. After all, it's the Republicans who have been the more outspoken advocates of market deregulation and lower taxes.

Leroy42

Corporations can afford to b back both sides, thus insuring they win no matter what.

peddlelies

listermint wrote: »

Tbh I can see Dems rowing in behind whomever he candidate is.

Trump has take it too far. There's huge distaste for him in any normal household over there.

Trump ain't winning again. You can hold me to that.

Put up some money then oh wise one, because your words on an internet forum where you'll never be held accountable are meaningless.

If Sanders wins the nomination I would bet a good chunk of change that Trump will be re-elected.

Call Me Jimmy

Gbear wrote: »

Bloomberg is literally a Republican.

Don't mention the war!

Surprised by you all thinking there will be straightforward unity. Bernie may tell his people to support Bloomberg but that doesn't mean they will in enough numbers. My hot take is I don't think Bernie wants it that bad either.

Warren is toast and Buttigieg is passable, a less unpopular Hillary but he doesn't 'get the people going'. No need to even mention Biden.

In terms of messaging, I don't think a cynical power play with the promise of bringing down Trump will work against what he will be offering. His messaging will be positive, with some basis in reality (for example the economy is a paper tiger, but that is in large part due to FED and global money games, insane tech companies... but as long as the illusion doesn't break before 2020, it may as well be a great economy).
He also has master levels of presentation and spectacle that will add up.
People want to be proud of their country deep down and its very hard for the average person to have a positive emotions about someone who rarely seems to espouse its virtues. One of Jeremy Corbyn's problems was he seemed very negative about britain, didn't give the impression that he ever genuinely had good things to say about his own country.

Bloomberg will be a strong in messaging, narrative etc. because he can hire the best people who understand the fundamental problems and won't be distracted by ideological skirmishing. He wants votes, that's it.

But despite all the pluses of Bloomberg and my contention that Bernie won't win or even be allowed to win the nomination, it's looking like it will all be too openly cynical and fail to gain the enthusiasm to take out the incumbent, even if his name is Donald Trump.

briany

It don't think it matters much if Trump gets voted out. He'll still claim to be the real president of the USA, and his followers will hold him as such. Trump is very much unlike anything we've seen. Any former POTUS that I know of in the modern era has more or less retired to a (relatively) quiet life after their term, giving after dinner speeches for big money and doing humanitarian photo ops. Trump, on the other hand, you could well imagine leading the protest march through Washington D.C.

Trump's rise is really just a manifestation of the debasement in political thought that has gone on in the USA (or rather, the USA in particular). He's not the head of the snake, he's the fruiting body of the fungal system.

everlast75

briany wrote: »

It don't think it matters much if Trump gets voted out. He'll still claim to be the real president of the USA, and his followers will hold him as such. Trump is very much unlike anything we've seen. Any former POTUS that I know of in the modern era has more or less retired to a (relatively) quiet life after their term, giving after dinner speeches for big money and doing humanitarian photo ops. Trump, on the other hand, you could well imagine leading the protest march through Washington D.C.

Trump's rise is really just a manifestation of the debasement in political thought that has gone on in the USA (or rather, the USA in particular). He's not the head of the snake, he's the fruiting body of the fungal system.

Not being flippant, but he can't do much if he's in jail......

Nody

briany wrote: »

It don't think it matters much if Trump gets voted out. He'll still claim to be the real president of the USA, and his followers will hold him as such. Trump is very much unlike anything we've seen. Any former POTUS that I know of in the modern era has more or less retired to a (relatively) quiet life after their term, giving after dinner speeches for big money and doing humanitarian photo ops. Trump, on the other hand, you could well imagine leading the protest march through Washington D.C.

Trump's rise is really just a manifestation of the debasement in political thought that has gone on in the USA (or rather, the USA in particular). He's not the head of the snake, he's the fruiting body of the fungal system.

Would take to much time away from golfing, he'd ask others to walk for him. I'd expect him to keep holding rallies however to make sure he gets public worship he craves as well as make sure he gets in the headlines (while charging top dollars and hold them at Trump resorts etc.). I'd expect claims of being pushed out, hints of shoot my enemies etc. and of course the day he dies that the base will explode into conspiracy theories over who killed him no matter the circumstances. I'm sure his children will try and fail badly at making a run for congress or senate both after he gets out as president as well once he dies.

briany

Nody wrote: »

Would take to much time away from golfing, he'd ask others to walk for him. I'd expect him to keep holding rallies however to make sure he gets public worship he craves as well as make sure he gets in the headlines (while charging top dollars and hold them at Trump resorts etc.). I'd expect claims of being pushed out, hints of shoot my enemies etc. and of course the day he dies that the base will explode into conspiracy theories over who killed him no matter the circumstances. I'm sure his children will try and fail badly at making a run for congress or senate both after he gets out as president as well once he dies.

If he has the energy to do rallies (even ones after becoming POTUS), then he'd have the energy to lead a large conglomeration of his followers into Washington for a big headline-stealing Inauguration Day protest, and such a move would give him a fairly big shot of the adoration he craves, too.

I would expect that Trump's plan is to, as long as he's alive, either be president or be pulling the strings of whoever gets in after him. He'll basically tell his followers, "If you want 4 more years of me, vote for this guy". Hence we get the weird spectacle of a Don Jr. 2024 run where it's Sr. doing all the speeches.

everlast75

Trunp pardoning two white collar criminals.

Weird flex for someone who hates corruption...

aloyisious

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

But importantly, and honestly, how do you see Bernie supporters supporting Bloomberg, or Bloomberg supporters (and Clinton supporters) throwing their weight behind Bernie when they've already tried to openly shaft him on multiple occasions? What way does that play out do you think?

The answer to that more importantly would be given on the day of the vote. However one supporter might not like the other candidate, when the choice is solely Trump V Bernie or Mike, which way do you see the Dem supporter voting?

Water John

Trump is the biggest hope for the Dems of him losing the election. As the more Trump annoys and angers the general public, outside the GOP, the more will turn out to vote. Voter turnout will defeat Trump.