Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

everlast75

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Can’t decide if 40 months is in the soft side ?

It's roughly half the sentence guidelines.

I think it's a good call. With the recommendation being 7-9 years, less than half that means Trump can't say that the proverbial book was thrown at Stone and use that to excuse a pardon.

Mind you - i don't think he cares too much about perception.

Igotadose

everlast75 wrote: »

It's roughly half the sentence guidelines.

I think it's a good call. With the recommendation being 7-9 years, less than half that means Trump can't say that the proverbial book was thrown at Stone and use that to excuse a pardon.

Mind you - i don't think he cares too much about perception.

Seems that the 7 - 9 year recommendation were due to changes to DoJ sentencing policy instituted by ...AG Jeff Sessions. Under the previous administration, recommended sentencing would have been less.

So, Trump complaining about the proposed 7 - 9 year sentence, was him undercutting his own changes to DoJ regs. Can't make this stuff up.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/19/opinions/stone-barr-doj-opinion-zeldin/index.html

woohoo!!!

Igotadose wrote: »

Seems that the 7 - 9 year recommendation were due to changes to DoJ sentencing policy instituted by ...AG Jeff Sessions. Under the previous administration, recommended sentencing would have been less.

So, Trump complaining about the proposed 7 - 9 year sentence, was him undercutting his own changes to DoJ regs. Can't make this stuff up.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/19/opinions/stone-barr-doj-opinion-zeldin/index.html

The harder on crime trope, except when (insert exceptions here)

Caquas

SeamusFX wrote: »

Not illegal, but as you said immoral, as they are all serious criminals, so totally wrong and disgusting and far from draining the swamp! That’s why this type of power never should have been given to someone that who’s such a low-life criminal scumbag!

Almost everything people posting here say about the Blagojevich case is wrong because they are relying on Irish media who just rehash the NYT or CNN.

Blagojevich has served eight years of a 14 year sentence yet he never personally profited from any of the things he was charged with. More importantly, he won an important case in the US Supreme Court which quashed his convictions in respect of some of the most serious charges. Yet, when the question of sentencing was remitted to the lower court, the judge simply reaffirmed the 14 year sentence! This is blatantly unjust but the political establishment hadn’t the guts to condemn it. Justice was done in commuting his sentence.

He never tried to sell Obama’s Senate seat. He simply wasn’t giving it away to Obama’s nominee. Now consider the farrago of democracy by which we fill almost all our Senate seats. Do you think the County Councillors give their precious votes to the first candidate who asks. If we had the FBI running things here, every politician who looked sideways at them would be in jail. Which might sound great until they come after you.

Do you think Watergate was just chance? Mark Felt.

This is his lawyer, a prominent left-wing defender of unpopular cases.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/8/12/20802161/blagojevich-donald-trump-commute-prison-sentence-barack-obama-sentate-seat-valerie-jarrett

The sentence was excessive even by cruel US standards and the behaviour of the FBI and the justice system was egregious.

Who in Ireland has actually spent 8 years in jail for any offence other than murder?

Water John

Well one guy here got 6 years for importing garlic and avoiding excise duty on it.

aloyisious

Mick Mulvaney's statement yesterday on the deficit and how the GOP views it must have some meaning in Washington - GOP is hypocritical about the deficit depending on which party the president belongs to. Don and Mitch must have a take on what Mick stated.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/trumps-chief-of-staff-says-republicans-only-care-about-deficits-when-a-democrat-is-president.

mcmoustache

Caquas wrote: »

Almost everything people posting here say about the Blagojevich case is wrong because they are relying on Irish media who just rehash the NYT or CNN.

Skipping past that nonsense that I've quoted, I presume that you were defending Blago for the 8 years before Trump stuck his oar in and that this wasn't just one of those instinctive reactions that compel Trump supporters to justify whatever action Trump takes regardless of how stupid it makes them look?

FrostyJack

Caquas wrote: »

Blagojevich has served eight years of a 14 year sentence yet he never personally profited from any of the things he was charged with. More importantly, he won an important case in the US Supreme Court which quashed his convictions in respect of some of the most serious charges. Yet, when the question of sentencing was remitted to the lower court, the judge simply reaffirmed the 14 year sentence! This is blatantly unjust but the political establishment hadn’t the guts to condemn it. Justice was done in commuting his sentence.

He never tried to sell Obama’s Senate seat. He simply wasn’t giving it away to Obama’s nominee. Now consider the farrago of democracy by which we fill almost all our Senate seats. Do you think the County Councillors give their precious votes to the first candidate who asks. If we had the FBI running things here, every politician who looked sideways at them would be in jail. Which might sound great until they come after you.

Nearly everything you said is wrong or misleading starting with your opening sentence. A 2 second wiki search explains why he was charged and why some were dropped (14 days of Jury deliberation for some charges). He is on tape saying he wasn't giving it up for free, he had a list of demands or he would take the seat himself. 14 years maybe excessive here but non violent crimes like drug possession in some states, for poor people are excessive too. Among his other crimes was demanding 50k from a CEO of Children's hospital because it got state sponsored funding. A real classy guy, no wonder Trump likes him, birds of a feather and all that.

Caquas

Water John wrote: »

Well one guy here got 6 years for importing garlic and avoiding excise duty on it.

Of which he served one year!

The sentence shocked Irish people although he stood to make €1.6 M. by his tax-dodging.

[URL="ttps://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garlic-man-begley-released-early-from-prison-29156388.html"]ttps://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garlic-man-begley-released-early-from-prison-29156388.html[/URL]

Caquas

FrostyJack wrote: »

Nearly everything you said is wrong or misleading starting with your opening sentence. A 2 second wiki search explains why he was charged and why some were dropped (14 days of Jury deliberation for some charges). He is on tape saying he wasn't giving it up for free, he had a list of demands or he would take the seat himself. 14 years maybe excessive here but non violent crimes like drug possession in some states, for poor people are excessive too. Among his other crimes was demanding 50k from a CEO of Children's hospital because it got state sponsored funding. A real classy guy, no wonder Trump likes him, birds of a feather and all that.

Not a classy guy but our jails would be filled if that was a crime..

What crime if he took the seat himself or if he wanted his nominee to do his political bidding? Think about all the political jobs here that are filled on that basis. Are you saying that’s criminal?

A wiki search will show you how long and complex this case was and e.g. how the jury was originally unable to reach a verdict. If you take a couple of weeks you might understand or at least learn some law.

Yes, he asked the hospital CEO for a campaign contribution. That’s American politics.

Ultimately, even if you think he got a fair trial and wasn’t railroaded by the FBI, his sentence was severe and justice requires that it be reduced once important counts were quashed.Trump made up for the failure of the justice system which is the purpose of his clemency power.

aloyisious

This, if factual and true, might explain why Don replaced his acting DNI with a person who has no experience in the Intelligence world and is a member of his fan-base. A member of the US intelligence community, part of a briefing to both Dem and GOP members of the House Intelligence committee, told them that the Russians are again trying to assist Don to get elected to the presidency. Both UK and US media are covering the story. Awkward truths spoken publicly terminate careers.

aloyisious

Caquas wrote: »

Not a classy guy but our jails would be filled if that was a crime..

What crime if he took the seat himself or if he wanted his nominee to do his political bidding? Think about all the political jobs here that are filled on that basis. Are you saying that’s criminal?

A wiki search will show you how long and complex this case was and e.g. how the jury was originally unable to reach a verdict. If you take a couple of weeks you might understand or at least learn some law.

Yes, he asked the hospital CEO for a campaign contribution. That’s American politics.

Ultimately, even if you think he got a fair trial and wasn’t railroaded by the FBI, his sentence was severe and justice requires that it be reduced once important counts were quashed.Trump made up for the failure of the justice system which is the purpose of his clemency power.

The fact that the actual prison term given was made up of concurrent sentences for the convictions might help people understand the "severity" of the sentence awarded by the judge. Trial 1 [the mistrial] was for 24 charges, of which he was convicted of 1 before the mistrial [due to the jury being unable to decide on the other 23] was declared, trial 2 was for fewer charges, 17 of which were found proven by its jury.

Your mention of "What crime if he took the seat himself or if he wanted his nominee to do his political bidding?" is reminiscent of the ultimate "so what" position taken by Don's defence team at his senate trial when they eventually owned up to the fact that Don did try to use his office to make a Quid Pro Quo deal with Ukraine's president.

FrostyJack

Caquas wrote: »

Not a classy guy but our jails would be filled if that was a crime..

What crime if he took the seat himself or if he wanted his nominee to do his political bidding? Think about all the political jobs here that are filled on that basis. Are you saying that’s criminal?

A wiki search will show you how long and complex this case was and e.g. how the jury was originally unable to reach a verdict. If you take a couple of weeks you might understand or at least learn some law.

Yes, he asked the hospital CEO for a campaign contribution. That’s American politics.

Ultimately, even if you think he got a fair trial and wasn’t railroaded by the FBI, his sentence was severe and justice requires that it be reduced once important counts were quashed.Trump made up for the failure of the justice system which is the purpose of his clemency power.

Aside from the obvious whataboutry, for some reason you keep bringing up. In Saudi Arabia or Iran, for example he could have been executed for his crimes. Is that severe enough for you? Then we have "everyone is doing it" or "that is politics" defense. Politics can be a dirty business but blatantly breaking the law deserves to be punished. If Trump pardoned Jimmy Saville you would probably say "sure everyone was doing it in the BBC back then", "was he ever actually prosecuted", "he was railroaded by people trying make themselves famous" etc etc. Trump is a failure of the justice system as he is still walking free, he should be no where near the office and definitely not getting involved in other criminal cases.

FrostyJack

Caquas wrote: »

Yes, he asked the hospital CEO for a campaign contribution. That’s American politics.

As an extra bit with your whitewashing of his crimes, this sounds exactly the kind of quid pro quo arrangement Trump loves to crime with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich_controversies

According to U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, Blagojevich threatened to revoke funds to Children's Memorial Hospital after its chief executive officer did not give a $50,000 contribution to the governor's campaign.[77]

On October 8, 2008, Blagojevich told a person described only as "Individual A" that he was willing to provide $8 million to Children's Memorial Hospital but only on the condition that he "get [Hospital Executive 1] for 50." Individual A thought Blagojevich was referring to a $50,000 campaign contribution from the hospital's chief executive officer and that the $8 million referred to a recent commitment by Blagojevich to secure state funds via "some type of pediatric care reimbursement." According to an affidavit regarding Blagojevich's corruption charges:

"Intercepted phone conversations between Rod Blagojevich and others indicate that Rod Blagojevich is contemplating revoking his state funds to Children's Memorial Hospital because Hospital Executive 1 has not made a recent campaign contribution".[78]
Other allegations included in the 78-page criminal complaint[75] include several of the schemes outlined during Rezko's trial. Patrick Fitzgerald, the United States Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois, described the corruption as "the most staggering crime spree in office I have ever seen."

TomOnBoard

aloyisious wrote: »

This, if factual and true, might explain why Don replaced his acting DNI with a person who has no experience in the Intelligence world and is a member of his fan-base. A member of the US intelligence community, part of a briefing to both Dem and GOP members of the House Intelligence committee, told them that the Russians are again trying to assist Don to get elected to the presidency. Both UK and US media are covering the story. Awkward truths spoken publicly terminate careers.

In 2018, the then DNI, Dan Coats, created a position within the DNI hierarchy of "Election Threats Executive ". This ro!e was intended to serve Coats as his "principal adviser on the issue as well as coordinating activities and initiatives across the intelligence community.

So, Shelby Pierson was de man! Appointed by Coats (Trump's choice as DNI) to deal with the issue laid out by him as follows:.?

"(CNN)Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats has created a new role to coordinate the US intelligence community's efforts to counter threats to election security amid rampant criticism that the various agencies' efforts are not coordinated well enough.

Shelby Pierson will be the first Election Threats Executive and serve as Coats's principal adviser on the issue as well as coordinating activities and initiatives across the intelligence community.

"Election security is an enduring challenge and a top priority for the IC," Coats said in a statement. "In order to build on our successful approach to the 2018 elections, the IC must properly align its resources to bring the strongest level of support to this critical issue. There is no one more qualified to serve as the very first Election Threats Executive than Shelby Pierson, whose knowledge and experience make her the right person to lead this critical mission."

Aaaand then, Sheldon does his job and, following months of research and analysis, tells the House Intelligence Committee that, YES, INDEED!, Russia continues to interfere in this 2020 US election process, and does so, ENTIRELY in favour of Putin plant-in -chief, Donald J Trump!
And what happens then?

Sheldon's boss gets reamed out by Trump and his cultish followers, and is fired for allowing the briefing to the House to take place! He is then replaced by an even more pliant stooge...

Oh, dear Adolf and Benito...... Ye were only in the ha' penny p!ace!!!

And, Susan Collins, what do you think about Presidents learning lessons now?

everlast75

You have to laugh at trump and how he screws over his own supporters.

He complained about the severity of the sentence Stone was looking at.

His supporters rush online to agree.

But trump being trump also has his AG touring complaining about prosecutors being too lenient with their sentencing recommendations, thus highlighting the hypocrisy of his interference.

God bless his supporters. You have to be quick on your toes to keep changing the goalposts every time he opens his mouth.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1230659670873911297

Taking aim at Parasite now...

The response from the distributor in the U.S is pretty good.

https://twitter.com/neonrated/status/1230660039028789248?s=20

everlast75

Exhibit "A" of "how trump truly has learned his lesson" from being impeached...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1230500719041687553.html

Since the Senate dismissed charges of "Abuse of Power" against @realDonaldTrump (in no particular order and I know I've missed some):

THREAD

1. Named a loyalist w no intel experience to the most senior intelligence/spy role in the nation, overseeing 17 intel agencies
mentions 2. Commended as his "warriors" lawmakers who fanned Russia propaganda during impeachment proceedings in defending him.

3. Decorated lt colonel & brother escorted out of White House in retaliation for A. Vindman's decision to take an oath and testify truthfully to Congress.
mentions 4. NY's Global Entry program was suspended

5. EU ambassador who testified to Congress that there was a quid pro quo over Ukraine was fired.

6. AG Barr moves to reduce the sentence rec. of longtime Trump associate Stone hours after Trump complained on Twitter.
mentions In response to the unprecedented action, all 4 line prosecutors quit the case.

7. Trump is attacking the federal judge, Amy Jackson Berman, presiding over the Stone case.

8. John Rood, Pentagon undersec, latest official to be pushed out. He certified in May of 2019 Ukraine ...
mentions met all anti-corruption standards and was eligible to receive U.S. aid.

9. Pardoned campaign donors and white-collar criminals w connections to his allies and donors.
mentions 10. Firing the Director of National Intelligence, Joseph Maguire, over a briefing given to members of Congress on foreign interference and election security in the upcoming 2020 election.

aloyisious

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Oh, dear Adolf and Benito...... Ye were only in the ha' penny p!ace!!!

And, Susan Collins, what do you think about Presidents learning lessons now?

Seriously speaking, if Don gets re-elected this Nov, the Senate GOP members had better expect the knock on the door if they were in any way disloyal to Don, for his goon squads will be cleaning house in the way he's shown by firing people "disloyal" to him but loyal to the US. His order last week to Bill Barr to clean house is the precedent [as he wants his personal rule enforced in the DOJ first] and followed it up with his claim that he is the Top Law Enforcement Officer in the US, the AG being the person usually accorded that title. Seizing control of the apparatus of law is the forewarning the US is on the road to tyranny.

Don, despite his public persona, is no buffoon, he knows an enemy when he sees one and his years in TV shows honed his skills in getting crowds to eat from his hands to the extent when they get home, they've forgotten what he just told them but still admire him "he's my kind of guy".

PropJoe10

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1230659670873911297

Taking aim at Parasite now...

The response from the distributor in the U.S is pretty good.

https://twitter.com/neonrated/status/1230660039028789248?s=20

You'd actually have to wonder what is wrong with the guy. His childishnes and general stupidity apparently know no boundaries at all.

valoren

The dig at Parasite is a dog whistle. A documentary produced by the Obama's company won an Oscar and it got some positive coverage ie the Academy voters are idiots, they don't know what they're doing, they give awards to the wrong movies even ones involving Obama.

duploelabs

PropJoe10 wrote: »

You'd actually have to wonder what is wrong with the guy. His childishnes and general stupidity apparently know no boundaries at all.

It's those qualities he likes to push as it's what his supporters best empathise with

Hockney

everlast75 wrote: »

Exhibit "A" of "how trump truly has learned his lesson" from being impeached...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1230500719041687553.html

Since the Senate dismissed charges of "Abuse of Power" against @realDonaldTrump (in no particular order and I know I've missed some):

THREAD

1. Named a loyalist w no intel experience to the most senior intelligence/spy role in the nation, overseeing 17 intel agencies
mentions 2. Commended as his "warriors" lawmakers who fanned Russia propaganda during impeachment proceedings in defending him.

3. Decorated lt colonel & brother escorted out of White House in retaliation for A. Vindman's decision to take an oath and testify truthfully to Congress.
mentions 4. NY's Global Entry program was suspended

5. EU ambassador who testified to Congress that there was a quid pro quo over Ukraine was fired.

6. AG Barr moves to reduce the sentence rec. of longtime Trump associate Stone hours after Trump complained on Twitter.
mentions In response to the unprecedented action, all 4 line prosecutors quit the case.

7. Trump is attacking the federal judge, Amy Jackson Berman, presiding over the Stone case.

8. John Rood, Pentagon undersec, latest official to be pushed out. He certified in May of 2019 Ukraine ...
mentions met all anti-corruption standards and was eligible to receive U.S. aid.

9. Pardoned campaign donors and white-collar criminals w connections to his allies and donors.
mentions 10. Firing the Director of National Intelligence, Joseph Maguire, over a briefing given to members of Congress on foreign interference and election security in the upcoming 2020 election.

If he gets back in, I shudder to think what this guy will be capable of when he doesn't have an upcoming election to worry about.

That's the only thing even remotely holding him back. He now considers himself about the law and unimpeachable, and you couldn't really blame him for thinking as much, given the fact that 99% of senate Reps are silent with all of this going on.

serfboard

I think it might have been on this thread recently, that someone questioned the relevance of George Orwell's 1984. Bear in mind if it's relevant, when, in thinking about something like this:

everlast75 wrote: »

God bless his supporters. You have to be quick on your toes to keep changing the goalposts every time he opens his mouth.

Orwell wrote this:

1984 wrote:

On the sixth day of Hate Week, after the processions, the speeches, the shouting ... after six days of this, when the great orgasm was quivering to its climax and the general hatred of Eurasia had boiled up into such delirium that if the crowd could have got their hands on the 2,000 Eurasian war-criminals who were to be publicly hanged on the last day of the proceedings, they would unquestionably have torn them to pieces — at just this moment it had been announced that Oceania was not after all at war with Eurasia. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Eurasia was an ally. There was, of course, no admission that any change had taken place. Merely it became known, with extreme suddenness and everywhere at once, that Eastasia and not Eurasia was the enemy.

1984 wrote:

The speech had been proceeding for perhaps twenty minutes when a messenger hurried on to the platform and a scrap of paper was slipped into the speaker's hand. He unrolled and read it without pausing in his speech. Nothing altered in his voice or manner, or in the content of what he was saying, but suddenly the names were different. Without words said, a wave of understanding rippled through the crowd. Oceania was at war with Eastasia! ... The thing that impressed Winston in looking back was that the speaker had switched from one line to the other actually in midsentence, not only without a pause, but without even breaking the syntax.

amandstu

Originally Posted by 1984
The speech had been proceeding for perhaps twenty minutes when a messenger hurried on to the platform and a scrap of paper was slipped into the speaker's hand. He unrolled and read it without pausing in his speech. Nothing altered in his voice or manner, or in the content of what he was saying, but suddenly the names were different. Without words said, a wave of understanding rippled through the crowd. Oceania was at war with Eastasia! ... The thing that impressed Winston in looking back was that the speaker had switched from one line to the other actually in midsentence, not only without a pause, but without even breaking the syntax.

I the Dems pick Bloomberg ,would this be an example of this phenomenon.

Is Trump the great corrupter,his contagion spreading like a miasma ...?

serfboard

amandstu wrote: »

I the Dems pick Bloomberg

I don't think that the Democrats will pick Bloomberg. Here is what Elizabeth Warren said about him the other night in the debate:

Elizabeth Warren wrote:

I’d like to talk about who we’re running against: a billionaire who calls women ‘fat broads’ and ‘horse-faced lesbians.’ And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump — I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg
...
Democrats are not going to win if we have a nominee who has a history of hiding his tax returns, of harassing women, and of supporting racist policies like redlining and stop and frisk. Look, I’ll support whoever the Democratic nominee is, but understand this: Democrats take a huge risk if we just substitute one arrogant billionaire for another.”

I think that takes care of the Bloomberg candidacy.

My worry would be if, having lost the Democrat nomination, he takes an independent run at the Presidency, and thereby hands the election to Trump.

kilns

serfboard wrote: »

I don't think that the Democrats will pick Bloomberg. Here is what Elizabeth Warren said about him the other night in the debate:

I think that takes care of the Bloomberg candidacy.

My worry would be if, having lost the Democrat nomination, he takes an independent run at the Presidency, and thereby hands the election to Trump.

He knows that would hand the Presidency to Trump and he hates him too much for that

amandstu

He has said he would use his resources to support the Dem candidate ,I think.

Stallingrad

Early days and Bernie looking strong, whatever about the popular vote can he win enough electoral votes to beat Trump?

EltonJohn69

Stallingrad wrote: »

Early days and Bernie looking strong, whatever about the popular vote can he win enough electoral votes to beat Trump?

The insurance companies won’t allow him to be president... he puts their 100 billion profits at risk....