Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

That seems a little harsh on the county clerk. I doubt the county clerk just happens to have $45mn in her pocket. (Estimated cost based on other counties) From the website, she rather wants to upgrade them.

You don't think, after all, county clerks might be politically biased in any degree when it comes to making decisions directly related to the provision and supply of electoral facilities and machinery to voters for enabling their voting?

spacecoyote

In yet more news of dodgy behaviour from Team Trump, Facebook pulled over 2000 ads posted by the Trump re-election campaign down because they were claiming to link to Official Census pages, but were actually taking you to a GOP fundraising site & requiring people to post personal information.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/05/facebook-removes-misleading-trump-ads

This kind of stuff would normally be seen as pretty dodgy you would think, but I imagine its barely a blip on peoples radars at this stage

Quin_Dub

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

All Trump said was the same thing other experts have said and that is that the 3.4% figure is likely higher than what the number will turn out to be when more testing is being carried out. He wasn't questioning the WHO's math skills and as he said, his opinion is informed by conversations he's had with experts he has been around over the last number of weeks.

So when he said that People could go to work and just get better , that was just quoting the experts was it?

Mr. Trump went on to say that in many cases, "They'll get better very rapidly, they don't even see a doctor, they don't even call a doctor."

"So if, you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work, some of them go to work, but they get better," he said.

Or was it more un-informed tripe in an attempt to minimise the seriousness of the situation?

He is physiologically incapable of telling fact from fiction..I genuinely think that a lot of the time he is not consciously lying. It's a reflexive thing for him , he says what he wants to be true , not what is actually true.

A few days back he had a meeting with various Pharma CEO's , He asked them if they could have a vaccine ready in 3-4 months. ALL of them told him repeatedly that whilst they each were at various stages of development for a vaccine it would be 12-18 months at least before it was ready for mass deployment.

He then announces to the press that a vaccine will be ready in 4 months..Why? because that's what he wanted to be true , not because it was true..

Up to now , most of his lies were largely inconsequential , school yard bragging stuff. "Largest Electoral college Victory" , "Biggest Crowd" , "Best Ever Economy" , "Biggest tax cut in History" etc. etc. ad infinitum.

But sometimes , like now , they can actually cause real material harm.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

For example he just donated this last quarter's salary of $100,000 to fighting the coronavirus and of course the leftist media found a way of spinning it so they'll really spin anything he does from now to November. Three years it's been nitpick city and so why stop now I guess.

How about he just stop charging the Secret Service huge sums for staying at his hotels instead?

The Trump Organization also billed the Secret Service when agents rented out a three-bedroom cottage at the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, NJ, to protect the president when he traveled there, according to the report. A receipt from 2017 showed that the Trump Organization charged the government $17,000 per month for the cottage, which is an unusually high rate for the area.

This despite Eric Trump , allegedly the person running the Trump organisation now, saying that they just charging them for "housekeeping , like $50 a night"

Trump’s son Eric Trump, who is helping to run the Trump Organization while his father is in the White House, suggested in an interview last year with Yahoo Finance that the company charges a very low rate to federal employees accompanying the president.

“If my father travels, they stay at our properties for free — meaning, like, cost for housekeeping,” said Eric Trump, the company’s executive vice president. Later in the interview, he said, “We charge them, like, 50 bucks.”

Igotadose

spacecoyote wrote: »

In yet more news of dodgy behaviour from Team Trump, Facebook pulled over 2000 ads posted by the Trump re-election campaign down because they were claiming to link to Official Census pages, but were actually taking you to a GOP fundraising site & requiring people to post personal information.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/05/facebook-removes-misleading-trump-ads

This kind of stuff would normally be seen as pretty dodgy you would think, but I imagine its barely a blip on peoples radars at this stage

How sad it is we live in a time when Facebook protects us from dishonesty by the #IMPOTUS. Like, what?

PropJoe10

Quin_Dub wrote: »

So when he said that People could go to work and just get better , that was just quoting the experts was it?



Or was it more un-informed tripe in an attempt to minimise the seriousness of the situation?

He is physiologically incapable of telling fact from fiction..I genuinely think that a lot of the time he is not consciously lying. It's a reflexive thing for him , he says what he wants to be true , not what is actually true.

A few days back he had a meeting with various Pharma CEO's , He asked them if they could have a vaccine ready in 3-4 months. ALL of them told him repeatedly that whilst they each were at various stages of development for a vaccine it would be 12-18 months at least before it was ready for mass deployment.

He then announces to the press that a vaccine will be ready in 4 months..Why? because that's what he wanted to be true , not because it was true..

Up to now , most of his lies were largely inconsequential , school yard bragging stuff. "Largest Electoral college Victory" , "Biggest Crowd" , "Best Ever Economy" , "Biggest tax cut in History" etc. etc. ad infinitum.

But sometimes , like now , they can actually cause real material harm.



How about he just stop charging the Secret Service huge sums for staying at his hotels instead?




This despite Eric Trump , allegedly the person running the Trump organisation now, saying that they just charging them for "housekeeping , like $50 a night"

Good points here. Would also be interested in Pete's thoughts on Trump saying at one of his rallies that he's hoping the virus will magically go away once it gets warmer. Suppose he got that from one of his "experts" as well.

Quin_Dub

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Good points here. Would also be interested in Pete's thoughts on Trump saying at one of his rallies that he's hoping the virus will magically go away once it gets warmer. Suppose he got that from one of his "experts" as well.

He's also taken to calling it " The Corona Flu"..

Why? , because he wants people to believe that it's just another strain of flu and that there's absolutely nothing to be even remotely concerned about..

He even tried to blame Obama for the fact that their testing regime is such a shambles.

sid waddell

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Would also be interested in Pete's thoughts on Trump saying at one of his rallies that he's hoping the virus will magically go away once it gets warmer. Suppose he got that from one of his "experts" as well.

I wouldn't. And neither should anybody else be. And they aren't thoughts - to have a thought you have to be able to think.

spacecoyote

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Good points here. Would also be interested in Pete's thoughts on Trump saying at one of his rallies that he's hoping the virus will magically go away once it gets warmer. Suppose he got that from one of his "experts" as well.

I think that he's basing that on the major flu epidemic from the early 20th Century. It did technically die off around April-May of the year it originally hit when the temperatures rose. But in October of the same year, it then came back & hit again even worse than it had early that year

He just happens to leave out the October piece from his thoughts

PropJoe10

Quin_Dub wrote: »

He's also taken to calling it " The Corona Flu"..

Why? , because he wants people to believe that it's just another strain of flu and that there's absolutely nothing to be even remotely concerned about..

He even tried to blame Obama for the fact that their testing regime is such a shambles.

He'll do anything now to spin this as either not a threat, or someone else's fault. As dumb as he is, I'm sure he realises that the stock market is the one positive thing he can rely on for re-election and if that tanks, he's in deep crap.

PropJoe10

sid waddell wrote: »

I wouldn't. And neither should anybody else be. And they aren't thoughts - to have a thought you have to be able to think.

I was being facetious. I quite agree with you

Toeuptony

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

If none of the matters to you (collective you, I know most regulars here endorse your views) then maybe it's not anything Trump is doing, or not doing, which is responsible for how you feel about him. Let's face it, no matter what he does the left will just find an angle to have a pop at him no matter. For example he just donated this last quarter's salary of $100,000 to fighting the coronavirus and of course the leftist media found a way of spinning it so they'll really spin anything he does from now to November. Three years it's been nitpick city and so why stop now I guess.

He had previously mentioned on many occasions (self praise is no praise) that he wasn't going to draw a salary, so I don't think he deserves extra recognition for donating this quarter's salary to coronavirus research (even if it is actually true, considering his track record).

I think that any praise he should get for donating his salary should be offset against the many grifts that he has been running during his time as president, including (off the top of my head):

• having foreign diplomats staying at his Washington hotel to curry favour
• him and Pence staying in Doonbeg when they visited
• having the Airforce refuel in Prestwick so they could stay in his Scottish hotel
• wanting to arrange the G7 conference in his Doral country club
• increasing membership fees in Maralago after he became won the election, to sell access to the president.

Manic Moran

aloyisious wrote: »

You don't think, after all, county clerks might be politically biased in any degree when it comes to making decisions directly related to the provision and supply of electoral facilities and machinery to voters for enabling their voting?

On a general level? Perhaps, though I don’t see why that should not apply to anyone in any position. And biased or not, unless the county board votes to allocate the money, the clerk’s hands are tied.

In the case of Harris County/Houston, it’s an elected position and she is a Democrat, so yes, I’m sure she is more likely to be biased. Six of her first ten arguments for re-election relate to her role in charge of the elections. [url]Http://dianetrautman.com/[/url]

Leroy42

What should be most concerning for every American is that Trump and the US found $50bn extra to spend on top of the already $700bn annual budget for the military to protect the country, but seemingly cannot afford to properly run the very thing the country is supposed to be the leader of!

Everyone agrees, to a greater of lessor degree, that the system is not working as it should. 4 hour queue's to vote. We would laugh at a third world country for that, but it seems totally acceptable in the US. Gerrymandering, lack of access to vote etc. No point pointing out how long the vote are etc, they are the system that exists, someone, somewhere, should be able to develop a countrywide solution.

The federal government should set minimum standards that each county much adhere to (maximum waiting times, % of voter enrolment) and that state is fined/sanctioned for failing to meet them. But that would require people to take the problem seriously, when in fact both parties and the general public seen largely ok with the mess.

Manic Moran

Leroy42 wrote: »

The federal government should set minimum standards that each county much adhere to (maximum waiting times, % of voter enrolment) and that state is fined/sanctioned for failing to meet them. But that would require people to take the problem seriously, when in fact both parties and the general public seen largely ok with the mess.

I don’t think the federal government is legally allowed to do that. There is nothing in the Constitution covering such an authority, it does not fall under the Interstate Commerce clause, which is what the Fed usually relies on to act on what goes on at the State level, and you will recall a recent SCOTUS case ruling that gerrymandering was a State level problem, not something for the federal court system.

Your last line seems quite accurate, but the solution needs to come from the bottom up (i.e. the general public you mention), not the Federal government.

Leroy42

Yeah, I assumed that 'federally' (is that a thing?!) they were stuck by what was going to be a state problem. It is strength, and in some cases a weakness, of the US system.

And as I understand it, although it is classed as a notional election, it is in fact 50 individual state elections which gives us the electoral college and then the result. But I guess a start would be more transparency on, as you posted, the different spending across each state/county. Then it is up to the locals to question why state X is spending Xm whilst ours is spending X-100m.

But 50bn annually!, could make sure that all voter registration issues are dealt with (need a driving licence then provide free Picture identity cards). It could be used to carry out a full review across all states to ascertain what works/doesn't work and compile a best in class process to try to move the states in the right direction.

AbusesToilets

Manic Moran wrote: »

I don’t think the federal government is legally allowed to do that. There is nothing in the Constitution covering such an authority, it does not fall under the Interstate Commerce clause, which is what the Fed usually relies on to act on what goes on at the State level, and you will recall a recent SCOTUS case ruling that gerrymandering was a State level problem, not something for the federal court system.

Your last line seems quite accurate, but the solution needs to come from the bottom up (i.e. the general public you mention), not the Federal government.

That opinion by the SCOTUS was a disgrace, damn near on par with the Citizen's United for how it undermined pillars of US democracy.

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

I don’t think the federal government is legally allowed to do that. There is nothing in the Constitution covering such an authority, it does not fall under the Interstate Commerce clause, which is what the Fed usually relies on to act on what goes on at the State level, and you will recall a recent SCOTUS case ruling that gerrymandering was a State level problem, not something for the federal court system.

Your last line seems quite accurate, but the solution needs to come from the bottom up (i.e. the general public you mention), not the Federal government.

That was the point of my asking you when you and others US citizens were going to kick up a fuss and force the people responsible for the voting system to make it fit for purpose. Its not really worth trying to pass the buck [pun] by raising the financing of the voting system with the inference that that was the reason for the closures. That is not the issue, the deliberate closing of voting centres causing the knock-on effect of long/er voter queues at the remaining centres is the issue. Stand up for your rights or lose them, by default, to people who aim to ensure you lose them.

aloyisious

The federal judge hearing a lawsuit taken by BuzzFeedNews to unredact the Mueller report has ordered the DOJ to provide him a copy of the unredacted report by March 30 so he can review it to determine what can be further released publicly.

Judge Reggie Walton also stated, in his ruling, that the AG William Barr had misrepresented the Mueller Report’s findings before handing it to Congress. He also wrote in his legal opinion "These circumstances generally, and Attorney General Barr’s lack of candour specifically, call into question Attorney General Barr’s credibility.”

According to Politioco the judgement says "The inconsistencies between Attorney General Barr’s statements, made at a time when the public did not have access to the redacted version of the Mueller Report to assess the veracity of his statements, and portions of the redacted version of the Mueller Report that conflict with those statements cause the Court to seriously question whether Attorney General Barr made a calculated attempt to influence public discourse about the Mueller Report in favour of President Trump, despite certain findings in the redacted version of the Mueller report to the contrary,”

The source of the above report is the "The Week" publication and a copy of it is carried on MSN under a photo image of Robert Mueller and the heading "What is in the Unredacted Mueller Report? over the "the week" logo

Manic Moran

aloyisious wrote: »

That was the point of my asking you when you and others US citizens were going to kick up a fuss and force the people responsible for the voting system to make it fit for purpose. Its not really worth trying to pass the buck [pun] by raising the financing of the voting system with the inference that that was the reason for the closures. That is not the issue, the deliberate closing of voting centres causing the knock-on effect of long/er voter queues at the remaining centres is the issue. Stand up for your rights or lose them to people who aim to ensure you lose them.

The fact that voting locations were closed doesn’t seem to have been the problem, given that obviously the voters were able to make it to vote centers in order to stand in line. According to the Harris clerk, half of voters don’t vote in their home precinct anyway, the “vote center” idea seems to be a suitable solution to the Harris county situation.

It’s the throughput capacity of the centers, not the number of locations which are proving to be the problem. 100 machines in one location can presumably process about as many voters as 50 machines in each of two locations. Plus similar with staffing numbers and the like. You’d just end up with two four hour lines instead of one, shorter, but moving more slowly. The county can’t magic up additional machines and people to man the additional stations, and I can’t imagine that the machines and people which had been manning the closed stations were left in storage and not reallocated to the active stations.

aloyisious

PropJoe10 wrote: »

He'll do anything now to spin this as either not a threat, or someone else's fault. As dumb as he is, I'm sure he realises that the stock market is the one positive thing he can rely on for re-election and if that tanks, he's in deep crap.

Its been reported by Politico that Alex Azar has been benched by the White House and removed from the US Health Dept team which is doing the White House public briefing with Mike Pence on the Coronavirus outbreak. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/05/white-house-alex-azar-coronavirus-122250

BonnieSituation

Manic Moran wrote: »

The fact that voting locations were closed doesn’t seem to have been the problem, given that obviously the voters were able to make it to vote centers in order to stand in line. According to the Harris clerk, half of voters don’t vote in their home precinct anyway, the “vote center” idea seems to be a suitable solution to the Harris county situation.

It’s the throughput capacity of the centers, not the number of locations which are proving to be the problem. 100 machines in one location can presumably process about as many voters as 50 machines in each of two locations. Plus similar with staffing numbers and the like. You’d just end up with two four hour lines instead of one, shorter, but moving more slowly. The county can’t magic up additional machines and people to man the additional stations, and I can’t imagine that the machines and people which had been manning the closed stations were left in storage and not reallocated to the active stations.

It doesn't help that as a nation you have "too much democracy". Some of the offices you vote for are insanely low down the pecking order. Thus, your ballots are huge and take a lot longer to complete. And then the queues form...

I mean, we can do a local election, a European election, both in PR-STV, and a constitutional referendum long before you can find the tiny circle to fill in for your president, never mind the other 50 offices you have to vote for. Madness.

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

The fact that voting locations were closed doesn’t seem to have been the problem, given that obviously the voters were able to make it to vote centers in order to stand in line. According to the Harris clerk, half of voters don’t vote in their home precinct anyway, the “vote center” idea seems to be a suitable solution to the Harris county situation.

It’s the throughput capacity of the centers, not the number of locations which are proving to be the problem. 100 machines in one location can presumably process about as many voters as 50 machines in each of two locations. Plus similar with staffing numbers and the like. You’d just end up with two four hour lines instead of one, shorter, but moving more slowly. The county can’t magic up additional machines and people to man the additional stations, and I can’t imagine that the machines and people which had been manning the closed stations were left in storage and not reallocated to the active stations.

Ref half of voters don't vote in their home precinct, what the hell! Maybe the US should make the voters vote in their home precincts then. It works well here.

Ref the throughput capacity of the centres being the cause of the queues, the answer to that is obvious. If the centres hired are too small to take the number of voters, that's a poor reflection on the people running the show as they obviously know the number of voters on the voting rolls. Having said that, I'll bow out of this particular part of the US election debate.

BonnieSituation

aloyisious wrote: »

Ref half of voters don't vote in their home precinct, what the hell! Maybe the US should make the voters vote in their home precincts then. It works well here.

Ref the throughput capacity of the centres being the cause of the queues, the answer to that is obvious. If the centres hired are too small to take the number of voters, that's a poor reflection on the people running the show as they obviously know the number of voters on the voting rolls. Having said that, I'll bow out of this particular part of the US election debate.

We always hear of bizarre venues being used for voting in the US.


Something wrong with schools, or is the case that they don't have enough so they have to use more bizarre venues?

Manic Moran

I voted in a school here. Come to think of it, I voted in a school in California as well.

The point about voting wherever is that sometimes it's easier to vote where your home isn't. For example, if you work odd hours, it might be far more practical for you to vote where your office is, not where your voting precinct is. Living 15-20 miles from work isn't unusual around here, we're sortof spread out a bit in Texas. My county is a diamond shape 40 miles across, my voting precinct (of which there are 728 in the county) is 1.5 miles by 2.5 miles, give or take. It's not unreasonable to consider I might spend most of the voting day outside of that little box and in one of the other 727.

BonnieSituation

Manic Moran wrote: »

I voted in a school here. Come to think of it, I voted in a school in California as well.

The point about voting wherever is that sometimes it's easier to vote where your home isn't. For example, if you work odd hours, it might be far more practical for you to vote where your office is, not where your voting precinct is. Living 15-20 miles from work isn't unusual around here, we're sortof spread out a bit in Texas. My county is a diamond shape 40 miles across, my voting precinct (of which there are 728 in the county) is 1.5 miles by 2.5 miles, give or take. It's not unreasonable to consider I might spend most of the voting day outside of that little box and in one of the other 727.

How does that work? How come you can't vote multiple times so? Is there a central database in which you are crossed off?

EltonJohn69

People are saying that Trump CDC press conference was on the level of his charlottesville one.....it was pretty insane.... he doesn't want to let the americans off the latest cruise ship because the numbers will go up. He really isn't trying to disguise his true feelings/motivations anymore.... not a good guy to have in a crisis like this.... he is making Pence look very presidential in comparison

BonnieSituation

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

People are saying that Trump CDC press conference was on the level of his charlottesville one.....it was pretty insane.... he doesn't want to let the americans off the latest cruise ship because the numbers will go up. He really isn't trying to disguise his true feelings/motivations anymore.... not a good guy to have in a crisis like this.... he is making Pence look very presidential in comparison

Any good links to that?

EDIT: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/mar/06/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-2020-presidential-election-trump-coronavirus-live-updates

amandstu

I understand Trump is thinking of creating a new position of acting Court Jester in the White House.

Mulvaney is believed to have given him the idea and with his departure to the post of NI envoy the need has become more apparent.

Until the post of CJ is confirmed the POTUS will be carrying out most of the role for now .

Manic Moran

BonnieSituation wrote: »

How does that work? How come you can't vote multiple times so? Is there a central database in which you are crossed off?

Central computer database. I'm not sure how it works if the computer system goes down.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1236069667657089030?s=19

I genuinely have no clue how this guy can be viewed as anything other than a delusional clown. I know we are not to call people names and i get that, but on what planet does this pass for credible? He's not even "good" at bull****ing. It's embarrassingly bad