Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

briany

pixelburp wrote: »

a deeply unintelligent man contradicting both his own administrations pronouncements as well as the WHOs.

I don't think Donald Trump is unintelligent at all, and also think it's dangerous to think of him as such as it naturally leads to underestimating him. I do think he is deeply ignorant of politics compared to a traditional politician and is largely unconcerned with matters beyond his own self-aggrandisement, but not unintelligent. If he's just unintelligent, then that must make all the rivals he beat out in 2016 geniuses.

It has to be remembered that when Trump speaks about almost anything, he's not speaking to people who read the Huffington Post or the Guardian, or just have an ounce of perspective. He's speaking to the minority of the American electorate who voted him in. It doesn't really matter to him how he's perceived by the rest and how obvious his nonsense is to them. His voter base and the rest of America live in two parallel realities, politically speaking.

Cookie_Monster

everlast75 wrote: »

Each and every day this administration slips closer and closer towards a North Korea level of propaganda and obsequiousness....

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1236669894747398144?s=19

just laying the ground work to highlight the separation from "sleepy" Joe

aloyisious

briany wrote: »

It has to be remembered that when Trump speaks about almost anything, he's not speaking to people who read the Huffington Post or the Guardian, or just have an ounce of perspective. He's speaking to the minority of the American electorate who voted him in. It doesn't really matter to him how he's perceived by the rest and how obvious his nonsense is to them. His voter base and the rest of America live in two parallel realities, politically speaking.

The horrible reality of that would be that if he get's re-elected this year, it would mean that the rest of America would have been "living" in a variety of parallel realities, all lesser in voting power than his voter base due to an unwillingness to work together and create a greater voting base even though they oppose him for the damage he's doing to them and their nation.

looksee

briany wrote: »

I don't think Donald Trump is unintelligent at all, and also think it's dangerous to think of him as such as it naturally leads to underestimating him. I do think he is deeply ignorant of politics compared to a traditional politician and is largely unconcerned with matters beyond his own self-aggrandisement, but not unintelligent. If he's just unintelligent, then that must make all the rivals he beat out in 2016 geniuses.

It has to be remembered that when Trump speaks about almost anything, he's not speaking to people who read the Huffington Post or the Guardian, or just have an ounce of perspective. He's speaking to the minority of the American electorate who voted him in. It doesn't really matter to him how he's perceived by the rest and how obvious his nonsense is to them. His voter base and the rest of America live in two parallel realities, politically speaking.

'deeply ignorant of politics compared to a traditional politician and is largely unconcerned with matters beyond his own self-aggrandisement,' so what else are you measuring his intelligence on? How are you defining intelligence?

He is unable to assemble a coherent sentence, his knowledge of pretty much anything is so profoundly lacking that he does not even realise how little he knows. You do need some degree of intelligence to appreciate how unintelligent you may be in a particular area.

Its not so much that he is intentionally speaking to the section of the American public that you describe, it is that there is a section of the American public that identifies with his personality. 'It takes one to know one'. The end result may apparently be the same, but there is a vital difference.

If he were putting on this unintelligence to appeal to this voter base it would suggest that there is a level of competence and ability that could be produced to deal with situations as needed. His incompetence and inability is genuine; even the most superficial look at any of his pronouncements or actions of recent days demonstrates that. It is genuinely alarming.

briany

looksee wrote: »

'deeply ignorant of politics compared to a traditional politician and is largely unconcerned with matters beyond his own self-aggrandisement,' so what else are you measuring his intelligence on? How are you defining intelligence?

When Trump was competing in the 2016 Republican primary, he made the rest of the field look completely ineffectual, cutting them down with zingers, nicknames that stuck like glue and bringing a message that really energised a section of the Republican electorate. Not to mention his reported penchant for just riffing at his rallies and in his set speeches. He has shown a very high degree of being able to think on his feet and therefore intelligence. The problem is that he's channeling this through his ego and pettiness most of the time rather than what's best for the USA and so he's all about hitting back at celebrities who make fun of him rather than balancing the budget.

everlast75

When discussing Trump's intelligence, can we remember that he suggested nuking a ****ing Hurricane?

Thanks.

Igotadose

briany wrote: »

The problem is that he's channeling this through his ego and pettiness most of the time rather than what's best for the USA and so he's all about hitting back at celebrities who make fun of him rather than balancing the budget.

Or, boycotting St. Patrick's day lunch because Speaker Pelosi will be there: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-nancy-pelosi-st-patricks-day-lunch-speaker-state-of-the-union-a9385726.html

Not just celebrities - anyone that publicly criticizes him. Anyone.

Oh, even right-wing tools like the Washington Examiner are dogging Trump's inept Covid-19 'response.' https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/coronavirus-is-exposing-trumps-unsuitability-to-handle-a-crisis
From the editorial: "If anybody was hoping that Trump had the ability to rise to the moment, his comments upon touring the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention should disabuse them of that notion."


Expect a response to that via twitter.

robinph

briany wrote: »

When Trump was competing in the 2016 Republican primary, he made the rest of the field look completely ineffectual, cutting them down with zingers, nicknames that stuck like glue and bringing a message that really energised a section of the Republican electorate. Not to mention his reported penchant for just riffing at his rallies and in his set speeches. He has shown a very high degree of being able to think on his feet and therefore intelligence. The problem is that he's channeling this through his ego and pettiness most of the time rather than what's best for the USA and so he's all about hitting back at celebrities who make fun of him rather than balancing the budget.

He's a good salesman, and he sold the idea that something was wrong and someone needed to fix it. But no better than any used car salesman could do in selling you a piece of junk. Being good at telling people that buying something (voting for him as president/ buying a shiny new car) will make their life better does not equate to intelligence though.

And there is nothing intelligent about then trying to convince us that the broken thing is working great if we just bought a nice red hat, rather than getting in an expert who knows what they are doing to actually fix whatever is broken. If he was intelligent then he would know what it is that he doesn't know and find someone who does. Instead he sticks his fingers in his ears, goes lalalala and then says how great he is at everything.

Leroy42

The Covid-19 issue is a completely new type of problem for Trump. Up till now he has been relatively lucky. Most problems have either been directly his fault ( the numerous scandals and staffing issues) and or he could directly blame others or at least shift the narrative to one where he threw muck oat HC, Pelosi, Cohen or whomever.

But this is a completely external issue. He is not to blame, and neither are the DNC or the media or any one of his normal targets. But how he responds is purely down to him, purely his responsibility (As GWB found out in New Orleans). So far he is failing miserably to get a handle on it. Mixed messages, lying, bravado, failure to know the facts (whether a man or woman had died!).

Sure, to his supporters if probably seems like a great laugh, but to anyone who is hoping for an actual leader then it is terrible. The problem Trump has, always had, is that he needs to be seen to be in charge, to be the smartest in the room. But on this particular issue, nobody expects any politician to be the smartest, leave that to the professionals.

But he has created a rod for his own back now. He stated, a number of times, that his administration had shut it down, that it would be over quickly and it wouldn't have a big impact. As such, he has taken on the responsibility for it. Any negative outcomes are thus on him.

Cody montana

He’s losing the plot on Twitter.

“The Obama/Biden Administration is the most corrupt Administration in the history of our Country!“

everlast75

Stock Market halted.

Sh1t getting serious

everlast75

Cody montana wrote: »

He’s losing the plot on Twitter.

“The Obama/Biden Administration is the most corrupt Administration in the history of our Country!“

There is truly, always a tweet....


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/446461592029630464?s=20

pixelburp

everlast75 wrote: »

Stock Market halted.

Sh1t getting serious

Could someone with some financial nous explain the ramifications here in real-terms, or indeed how (un)precedented this is?

The stock market just seem like numbers to me, and often lack any real link with the working economy - be it in the US or indeed the EU. The broken-down production workflow in China I get, that is a demonstrable problem. The stock markets though seem like abstracts

Stallingrad

pixelburp wrote: »

Could someone with some financial nous explain the ramifications here in real-terms, or indeed how (un)precedented this is?

The stock market just seem like numbers to me, and often lack any real link with the working economy - be it in the US or indeed the EU. The broken-down production workflow in China I get, that is a demonstrable problem. The stock markets though seem like abstracts

Don't mean to moderate a Moderator but I'm sure there is a thread on this in somewhere?

Quin_Dub

pixelburp wrote: »

Could someone with some financial nous explain the ramifications here in real-terms, or indeed how (un)precedented this is?

The stock market just seem like numbers to me, and often lack any real link with the working economy - be it in the US or indeed the EU. The broken-down production workflow in China I get, that is a demonstrable problem. The stock markets though seem like abstracts

They are interconnected..

China stops making stuff
People stop travelling/spending money
Oil Consumption drops sharply

In response

Oil price drops rapidly , Saudi starts a price war
Investors looks to get out of stocks that they think will be negatively impacted by the issues above.
People see others getting out of certain stocks so they follow suit.

Result - Stock market drops like a stone partly driven by contagion as investors don't want to be the left holding the bag.

And of course the distinct lack of clear leadership and trust in the US Administration in this time of crisis does not help one bit..

Quin_Dub

Good lord , his latest tweets are just incredible

It's not the potential Global Pandemic that is impacting Oil Prices - It's Saudi and Russia arguing over price?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1237024551294382081

But hey, great news for the consumer!!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1237024549046288385

And , just to reassure everyone

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1237027356314869761

It's ok , it's not as bad as the flu!!

So , instead of some reassurances about the efforts to fix this stuff , we get a bunch of tweets blaming everybody else with a bit of Large scale whataboutery thrown in.

Stallingrad

^ He's trying to steer sentiment about everything via Twitter. The above would be tolerable by a random poster on boards.ie, still hard to believe that is the President talking. is anyone telling him to STFU for a few days?

The Nal

Stallingrad wrote: »

^ He's trying to steer sentiment about everything via Twitter. The above would be tolerable by a random poster on boards.ie, still hard to believe that is the President talking. is anyone telling him to STFU for a few days?

Nope. This is the sort of nonsense that got him elected and will get him re-elected.

People will have forgotten about those tweets in an hour.

briany

The Nal wrote: »

Nope. This is the sort of nonsense that got him elected and will get him re-elected.

People will have forgotten about those tweets in an hour.

People need to stop reading Trump's twitter, especially his critics. It's part of his smokescreen tactic - say dumb/crazy stuff on Twitter, and the media/public flock around that like moths to a flame. Trump knows exactly what he's doing by writing this stuff. It fires up his voters, and repels everyone else. Divide the population and divert from what stuff he and his administration are actually doing. People call Trump a moron, and yet they're the ones falling for this.

Foxtrol

The Nal wrote: »

Nope. This is the sort of nonsense that got him elected and will get him re-elected.

People will have forgotten about those tweets in an hour.

Not when Bloomberg spends $500m in the autumn highlighting every mistake, and attempt to downplay the situation by Trump which led to deaths. This thing will have impact on voter's lives, it wont be easily forgotten.

The Nal

briany wrote: »

People need to stop reading Trump's twitter, especially his critics. It's part of his smokescreen tactic - say dumb/crazy stuff on Twitter, and the media/public flock around that like moths to a flame. Trump knows exactly what he's doing by writing this stuff. It fires up his voters, and repels everyone else. Divide the population and divert from what stuff he and his administration are actually doing. People call Trump a moron, and yet they're the ones falling for this.

Meanwhile all people see is "Trump".

Oh look what Trump said now.

Can't believe Trump said this.

Roger Stones rule: "It's better to be infamous than never be famous at all."

everlast75

The Nal wrote: »

Roger Stones rule: "It's better to be infamous than never be famous at all."

And how is he doing these days?

eire4

everlast75 wrote: »

And how is he doing these days?

Not as bad unfortunately as your hinting as IMHO it is a certainty that he will get a pardon from his partner in crime.

one armed dwarf

This is where Trump's wonderful tax plans and trade wars will really come home to roost, no cash to stimulate the economy during this tough period ahead.

Manic Moran

eire4 wrote: »

Not as bad unfortunately as your hinting as IMHO it is a certainty that he will get a pardon from his partner in crime.

You want to go back to Oscar Wilde for the original statement.
"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about"

I seem to recall a derivation attributed to Churchill along the lines of "The only thing worse than being talked about badly is not being talked about", but that may be apocryphal.

Quin_Dub

briany wrote: »

People need to stop reading Trump's twitter, especially his critics. It's part of his smokescreen tactic - say dumb/crazy stuff on Twitter, and the media/public flock around that like moths to a flame. Trump knows exactly what he's doing by writing this stuff. It fires up his voters, and repels everyone else. Divide the population and divert from what stuff he and his administration are actually doing. People call Trump a moron, and yet they're the ones falling for this.

I'm not sure the Twitter deflection will work so well in this case.

This is not a policy/trade dispute where he can blame someone else.

If this goes badly ( and it's not looking great right now) there's absolutely nowhere he can point the finger.

Even the Conservative media are starting to go in on him for the handling of the issue. See this article from the Washington Examiner

If Trump keeps up his current approach of minimizing the problem, it’s only going to shred his credibility by making people dismiss his future reassurances.

His approach of downplaying coronavirus may be aimed at minimizing political blowback and calming markets, but unrealistic statements will only make matters worse on both fronts.

The Nal

everlast75 wrote: »

And how is he doing these days?

A rather childishly predictable response which completely ignores the point.

eire4 wrote: »

Not as bad unfortunately as your hinting as IMHO it is a certainty that he will get a pardon from his partner in crime.

Indeed. His partner in crime who he helped massively to get elected and who lives by that rule.

I'd imagine Stone is surprised that he hasn't gone to jail sooner. Hes been at this dodgy craic for decades.

salmocab

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'm not sure the Twitter deflection will work so well in this case.

This is not a policy/trade dispute where he can blame someone else.

If this goes badly ( and it's not looking great right now) there's absolutely nowhere he can point the finger.

Even the Conservative media are starting to go in on him for the handling of the issue. See this article from the Washington Examiner

I understand why because of who he is but as this is not of his or America’s doing all he had to do was appoint someone who knows what they’re at to take charge, divert the necessary funding and stay on point to make this a success for himself, whilst saving lives but he just couldn’t do the most obvious thing.

PropJoe10

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Good lord , his latest tweets are just incredible

It's not the potential Global Pandemic that is impacting Oil Prices - It's Saudi and Russia arguing over price?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1237024551294382081

But hey, great news for the consumer!!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1237024549046288385

And , just to reassure everyone

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1237027356314869761

It's ok , it's not as bad as the flu!!

So , instead of some reassurances about the efforts to fix this stuff , we get a bunch of tweets blaming everybody else with a bit of Large scale whataboutery thrown in.

Unfortunately, this stuff is no surprise. Trump is an ego-centric narcissistic 74 year old man who has never had to answer to anyone, or be questioned by anyone, in his entire life. He's hidden behind a veneer of nonsense regarding pretty much everything he's done in his life for the entirety of that period.

At this point, he is what he is and there's no point in even being surprised by the nonsense he comes out with anymore. Sad, but it's a fact.

everlast75

The Nal wrote: »

A rather childishly predictable response which completely ignores the point.

It doesn't ignore the point, childishly or otherwise.

Stone was a loud mouth who tinkered with politics, had zero ethics and got way in over his head. Sound familiar?

It has gotten Stone in serious f'n trouble.

It could be said Trump has done likewise, albeit on a grander scale.