Meghan & Harry: WE QUIT

Stateofyou

Neyite wrote: »

In Ireland this year, women who've began to bleed, had to attend their appointment without their partner due to covid. They've had to undergo scans alone, be told their baby is dead alone, and get sent home to bleed. You'd need to have miscarriage complications get a bed in Ireland, let alone one with your loving husband by your side. You are lucky if you even get an appointment. I'm guessing MM wasn't told that they won't look at you in the EPU until after your third miscarriage. Or that they won't refer you to Gynae. She probably didn't have to stand in a packed Boots arguing with the sales assistant that she needed Neurofen plus and have to explain to them exactly why a miscarriage warrants more than paracetamol. And I'm fairly sure sure that MM didn't have to get up and get on with looking after her toddler alone in the house because her husband couldn't miss work.

So really, her experience is worlds away from mine or my friends. Mother to mother, she has my utmost sympathy for her loss but I can't really identify with her experience as it bears little resemblance to my own ones.

Although a very kind midwife let me out a side door rather than walk the gauntlet of a waiting room full of happy pregnant women, and MM likely gets smuggled out side doors all the time so I guess we had that in common that time?

What are you saying? In light of all those assumptions you've made, the loss of their baby and future with that child is not as big a deal as it would be to someone who might have struggled more in the course of that experience? You don't know what compounds their personal lives and grief, Neyite. Once again, here's an example of a rubbish viewpoint that if you didn't struggle the most, in someone else's uniformed opinion, then you have no right to speak up at all. This is more harmful to people's mental health. And I'm sure someone struggled more than you, too. So do you deserve kindness in light of that? Someone always has it worse, but we're all still entitled to our feelings in our experiences. She doesn't seem to have your utmost sympathy at all.

meeeeh

I had three miscarriages, I never felt like I needed to suffer in silence. I know everyone reacts to this differently but frankly her reaction was a lot more emotional and devastating than mine. Yes I believe her description of her emotions is genuine but does it in any way reflect my experience? No. And maybe it's time to point out some of us don't suffer unbearable grief and maybe that's the reason some of us don't feel the need to talk about our grief.

I hope she got some solace from writing about miscarriage but it doesn't have much relevance for me and many other cold hearted bitches.

Stateofyou

bitofabind wrote: »

I feel bad saying this but she has a way of making it seem like she's acting no matter what it is she does or says. There's just something that smacks of inauthenticity about her and seems to be backed up by the trail of broken relationships and lost family members in her wake.

I have nothing but sympathy for mothers and families that have suffered this type of loss and I'm not immune to it myself. I have sympathy for MM and Harry for going through this, after a year of crazy turbulence. And I also do see the value in truth telling and raising awareness to break down taboos. But MM's words feel hollow, flowery, dramatic, like a scene out of a movie, and then the bizarre turn of tying her baby loss to political rhetoric, like a PR opportunity. What happened to the need for privacy?

Lovely. What happened to if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all? They relocated to the US for more control over their own lives, personally and professionally. They didn't pledge a lifetime of muteness. :rolleyes:

ILoveYourVibes

Stateofyou wrote: »

Lovely. What happened to if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all? They relocated to the US for more control over their own lives, personally and professionally. They didn't pledge a lifetime of muteness. :rolleyes:

You don't move to L.A to get away from the control of the press.

You move there because you are not getting enough of it.

Loveinapril

Loveinapril wrote: »

The subject of pregnancy loss is such a personal thing that not many women share it. It was only when I had a miscarriage that I realised how many women in my life had experienced them. There is still a lot of shame around it.

Shame? Really? I don't think there is anything to be ashamed of. It's just a tragic twist of fate, nothing to be shameful about.

Any woman universally receives nothing but sympathy and well wishes when something like that happens. It's not exactly "brave" like it's being made out to be.

I just can't help but be sceptical around the timing of the article's release these months later. It seems like the Meghan media dumps seem to always happen when they are trying to divert attention away from something else.

eviltwin

Neyite wrote: »

In Ireland this year, women who've began to bleed, had to attend their appointment without their partner due to covid. They've had to undergo scans alone, be told their baby is dead alone, and get sent home to bleed. You'd need to have miscarriage complications get a bed in Ireland, let alone one with your loving husband by your side. You are lucky if you even get an appointment. I'm guessing MM wasn't told that they won't look at you in the EPU until after your third miscarriage. Or that they won't refer you to Gynae. She probably didn't have to stand in a packed Boots arguing with the sales assistant that she needed Neurofen plus and have to explain to them exactly why a miscarriage warrants more than paracetamol. And I'm fairly sure sure that MM didn't have to get up and get on with looking after her toddler alone in the house because her husband couldn't miss work.

So really, her experience is worlds away from mine or my friends. Mother to mother, she has my utmost sympathy for her loss but I can't really identify with her experience as it bears little resemblance to my own ones.

Although a very kind midwife let me out a side door rather than walk the gauntlet of a waiting room full of happy pregnant women, and MM likely gets smuggled out side doors all the time so I guess we had that in common that time?

Well that's hardly her fault, I wouldn't hold that against her.

Sardonicat

Stateofyou wrote: »

We don't require anything. But it helps due to their large following/platform. But as I said ordinary people speak out too.

How does it help? In what way has Megan sharing her experience helped someone like Neyite deal with hers? (Apologies, Neyite, I hope it's ok to refer to your post?)

This is a genuine question, by the way. Please help me understand how a famous person sharing a tragedy publicly helps others who have gone through similar? What am I missing, here,?
It doesn't stop insensitive people from being insensitive. It doesn't improve the services for women in countries (like ours) that are just about fit for purpose. If it helps people to talk about it, then that is worrying, IMO. Why couldn't you discuss it before? What magic wand has now been waved by a famous, privileged hand that has removed all barriers that hitherto kept you silent? Why do these people have a platform? Surely, it's precisely stories like those shared on this thread, stories of a broken hearted man having to scaffold on a professional face and go to work instead of being at home to grieve his loss with his partner, who had to beg for adequate pain relief and had to mind a toddler alone while in physical pain and grieving. These are the stories we should be paying attention to and using to highlight the need for support and understanding (practical as well as emotional)around miscarriage. What the hell is wrong with people that we place so much emphasis on celebrity?

Wibbs

Sardonicat wrote: »

Now Wibbsy told a bit of truth in his post. A hard one and one that has done me good to read today. Its done way more for me than some famous individual sharing a diagnosis of a mood disorder. I don't often agree with you, Wibbs but you actually really helped me today. Thanks.

Ah thanks S. Goddammit! What are these feelz I'm feelin.

The other curse I've noticed with the illness is there is often that moment when perspective does come back for people and that can make them feel guilty for feeling the way they do, when others are worse off, which in turn makes it worse for them.

cnocbui wrote: »

That would all be beacuase she doesn't live in this lovely country. Another black mark against her, no doubt. How dare she not have to suffer Ireland's 2nd world health system.

Eh... not more of this Irish self critical ballsology. Ireland is one of the safest nations on the planet to go through pregnancy and give birth in and is slightly ahead of the UK and not far off half the risk of mortality of the US with its much vaunted and overpriced health system. We saw similar Irish hairshirt nonsense around the tragedy of that Indian woman who died in childbirth here. Ireland has a rate of around 8 deaths per 100,000, India has a rate of around 180. And we've since changed the law and procedures that will further reduce tragedies like that happening again. There is always room for improvement, but to suggest Ireland's health system is 2nd world is beyond idiotic.

Though maybe notions like that are a further example of people being pessimistic and seeing bad where it doesn't exist or to the degree they think?

Stateofyou wrote: »

What is your observation based off of, Wibbs? Are you a therapist, or have you collected some other kind of data that backs your opinion up?

Basic human observation of people I've known down the years who have suffered from that illness.

eviltwin

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah thanks S. Goddammit! What are these feelz I'm feelin.

The other curse I've noticed with the illness is there is often that moment when perspective does come back for people and that can make them feel guilty for feeling the way they do, when others are worse off, which in turn makes it worse for them.

Eh... not more of this Irish self critical ballsology. Ireland is one of the safest nations on the planet to go through pregnancy and give birth in and is slightly ahead of the UK and not far off half the risk of mortality of the US with its much vaunted and overpriced health system. We saw similar Irish hairshirt nonsense around the tragedy of that Indian woman who died in childbirth here. Ireland has a rate of around 8 deaths per 100,000, India has a rate of around 180. And we've since changed the law and procedures that will further reduce tragedies like that happening again. There is always room for improvement, but to suggest Ireland's health system is 2nd world is beyond idiotic.

Though maybe notions like that are a further example of people being pessimistic and seeing bad where it doesn't exist or to the degree they think?

Basic human observation of people I've known down the years who have suffered from that illness.

No offence Wibbs but I'm going to guess you haven't been through the Irish maternity system. Yes, the outcomes are largely very positive but you have a whole nine months to get through before you reach that outcome and most women will tell you that the system is not great. Its not just things like waiting lists, over crowded hospitals etc. Often its the attitudes of staff who can be very dismissive and downright nasty. I've experienced it myself. There is a lot more to maternity care than a healthy mother and baby and we need to remember that.

Sardonicat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any woman universally receives nothing but sympathy and well wishes when something like that happens. It's not exactly "brave" like it's being made out to be.

/quote]

Woah, there! Amongst the 'sympathy' I've witnessed women receive has been 'you're young, you can try again soon' 'at least you know your bits are working' and 'sure, you have two already, so not that bad'. Offered up by women, mother's even. I just remember being opened mouthed at the complete lack of sensitivity and dismissal of a loss. And I don't think I've ever witnessed a man receive sympathy or even had one disclose to me they'd experienced a pregnancy loss. These are the kind of things that need to change. But celebrity culture isn't going to do it.

MoonUnit75

Deleted User wrote: »

Shame? Really? I don't think there is anything to be ashamed of. It's just a tragic twist of fate, nothing to be shameful about.

Any woman universally receives nothing but sympathy and well wishes when something like that happens. It's not exactly "brave" like it's being made out to be.

I just can't help but be sceptical around the timing of the article's release these months later. It seems like the Meghan media dumps seem to always happen when they are trying to divert attention away from something else.

Yes, I don't think there's an element of shame, more of a taboo. It's not like a relative dying, we all go through that. I suppose the taboo has something to do with the fact that friends and relatives of the same age are having babies and aren't sure how to celebrate this around friends who have miscarried. I think this, and the pressure to have children in general, makes many feel like it is a personal thing to be dealt with in the family rather than in public.

The timing of this is, to me, very cynical. The election mayhem has just tailed off, her case against the papers is falling apart at the seams and they hired some of the best in the PR business very recently. Their popularity and visibility has been waning yet they have taken on a massive deal with Netflix. I personally think it has less to do with reducing the stigma for other women and more to do with 'leveraging' surefire sympathy.

Sardonicat

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah thanks S. Goddammit! What are these feelz I'm feelin.

The other curse I've noticed with the illness is there is often that moment when perspective does come back for people and that can make them feel guilty for feeling the way they do, when others are worse off, which in turn makes it worse for them.

/quote]

The merry-go-round. That's the most dangerous phase, IMO. If you see that happening, that's the time to keep repeating 'Its not your fault you get sick. I'm your friend and I love you, no matter what'.

A bit if free, non-celebrity sharing, there. It might help someone today.

MoonUnit75

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

The timing of this is, to me, very cynical. The election mayhem has just tailed off, her case against the papers is falling apart at the seams and they hired some of the best in the PR business very recently. Their popularity and visibility has been waning yet they have taken on a massive deal with Netflix. I personally think it has less to do with reducing the stigma for other women and more to do with 'leveraging' surefire sympathy.

They must be running out of ideas for garnering public sympathy. They already used press intrusion, sexism and racism. After this what will be next?

valoren

Having read the article it struck me as narcissistic “We could have sailed home from the hospital, such were the tears shed by Harry and I” purple prose. It is a play for relevance via the invocation of sympathy. It is akin to a shield from criticism i.e. she can divulge a personal tragedy and then segue into the real meat of the article which is banal opining on current affairs while continuing to play the victim of the “not being asked if she is ok” narrative. The idea being that were you, like this post, to call out her “we want privacy/will litigate to get it/yet will detail private grief in the NYT” hypocrisy then you are less likely to do so considering she has expressed her personal experience about a sad and sensitive miscarriage. You would be deemed to be attacking someone who has experienced a personal ordeal and grief. There was a time when news of such personal tragedies were made public via official matter-of-fact statements and weren’t divulged via preening essays in the New York Times containing irksome passages likes this grating prose;

“I lay in a hospital bed, holding my husband’s hand. I felt the clamminess of his palm and kissed his knuckles, wet from both our tears. Staring at the cold white walls, my eyes glazed over. I tried to imagine how we’d heal…Sitting in a hospital bed, watching my husband’s heart break as he tried to hold the shattered pieces of mine”

We can all empathize with the heartbreak, the grief, any couple, including the Sussex's, goes through after suffering miscarriage. A formal statement would have been more than sufficient and would have elicited sympathy as a matter of course. We don’t need to have such grief expressed in a purple prose essay by a public figure who on the one hand is demanding privacy but, in a post-Covid world, is concurrently seeking relevance and attention by writing an article in a high profile publication about a very private matter.

screamer

im sorry for them, the same way as i feel sorry for any couple who have to face that devastation.
the one thing that sits badly with me, is their constant use of the media for their own ends, for two people who just wanted to walk away from it all, their actions don't reflect that, and so it smacks of insincerity.

Stateofyou

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You don't move to L.A to get away from the control of the press.

You move there because you are not getting enough of it.

Lol. Their rules are much more strict, especially in regards to children.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

They must be running out of ideas for garnering public sympathy. They already used press intrusion, sexism and racism. After this what will be next?

So there's no such thing as (extreme) press intrusion, sexism and racism? And they've never experienced any of that?

ILoveYourVibes

Stateofyou wrote: »

Lol. Their rules are much more strict, especially in regards to children.

Not at all ...if you want strong privacy laws ..move to Switzerland.

ILoveYourVibes

Stateofyou wrote: »

So there's no such thing as (extreme) press intrusion, sexism and racism? And they've never experienced any of that?

They are still experiencing it. What makes you think it has gone away because they moved to the showbiz paparazzi hub of the world?

Stateofyou

Sardonicat wrote: »

How does it help? In what way has Megan sharing her experience helped someone like Neyite deal with hers? (Apologies, Neyite, I hope it's ok to refer to your post?)

This is a genuine question, by the way. Please help me understand how a famous person sharing a tragedy publicly helps others who have gone through similar? What am I missing, here,?
It doesn't stop insensitive people from being insensitive. It doesn't improve the services for women in countries (like ours) that are just about fit for purpose. If it helps people to talk about it, then that is worrying, IMO. Why couldn't you discuss it before? What magic wand has now been waved by a famous, privileged hand that has removed all barriers that hitherto kept you silent? Why do these people have a platform? Surely, it's precisely stories like those shared on this thread, stories of a broken hearted man having to scaffold on a professional face and go to work instead of being at home to grieve his loss with his partner, who had to beg for adequate pain relief and had to mind a toddler alone while in physical pain and grieving. These are the stories we should be paying attention to and using to highlight the need for support and understanding (practical as well as emotional)around miscarriage. What the hell is wrong with people that we place so much emphasis on celebrity?

Well due to Meghan and Harry having one of the world's largest platforms, the related organisations and charities who have come forward to applaud her for speaking up probably have the best grasp of the help it has done for the people using their services. There are conversations about it all over social media and while some are as bitter and begrudging and unkind as the posts here, the overwhelming majority of them seem grateful and supportive and expressing sympathy. Many are sharing their own stories.
This announcement was just recently made, so I don't see how you can say with any certainty it won't change anything in regards to services for women (and fathers). No one except you has claimed a magic wand was waived and now everything is all better. However based off of public feedback so far, it seems clear to me that many have already benefited from the public discourse and maybe feel a bit more understood and less alone in their experience. And that counts for a lot.
Because of Meghan speaking out, others are now sharing their stories which are important to be told and to be read. Meghan spoke up, now here we are talking about it and some are sharing their stories. I read dozens of them online after the story broke. That's the point at the end of the day. It's not that her story is more important than anyone else's, but it encouraged others to speak up about their own. All people's stories and pain deserved to be told and heard.

Stateofyou

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Not at all ...if you want strong privacy laws ..move to Switzerland.

That's a very arrogant position to take- that they or anyone can just immigrate to any country they want to live in because they want to? What an attitude.
They're strong enough where they are, and her mother and their network are based in CA. Most couples who are of different cultures usually gravitate towards one of their own. :rolleyes:

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They are still experiencing it. What makes you think it has gone away because they moved to the showbiz paparazzi hub of the world?

What makes you think I said it has gone away?

eviltwin

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well due to Meghan and Harry having one of the world's largest platforms, the related organisations and charities who have come forward to applaud her for speaking up probably have the best grasp of the help it has done for the people using their services. There are conversations about it all over social media and while some are as bitter and begrudging and unkind as the posts here, the overwhelming majority of them seem grateful and supportive and expressing sympathy. Many are sharing their own stories.
This announcement was just recently made, so I don't see how you can say with any certainty it won't change anything in regards to services for women (and fathers). No one except you has claimed a magic wand was waived and now everything is all better. However based off of public feedback so far, it seems clear to me that many have already benefited from the public discourse and maybe feel a bit more understood and less alone in their experience. And that counts for a lot.
Because of Meghan speaking out, others are now sharing their stories which are important to be told and to be read. Meghan spoke up, now here we are talking about it and some are sharing their stories. I read dozens of them online after the story broke. That's the point at the end of the day. It's not that her story is more important than anyone else's, but it encouraged others to speak up about their own. All people's stories and pain deserved to be told and heard.

There's been a few high profile pregnancy loss stories this year and going back years and what, if anything have they achieved? Nothing apart from a few column inches for the celebrity.

Look at Rosanna Davidson talking about her 14 miscarriages, Chrissy Teigan had a late term pregnancy loss, Kate Beckinsale another one this year and a few others. I'm sure it does help those going through it on a personal level feel less alone, it might generate an article in a paper with a helpline attached but it doesn't really change anything. Most women I know have had at least one miscarriage, its really not that unusual or special or unspoken about. Most of us just do it in private.

MoonUnit75

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well due to Meghan and Harry having one of the world's largest platforms, the related organisations and charities who have come forward to applaud her for speaking up probably have the best grasp of the help it has done for the people using their services. There are conversations about it all over social media and while some are as bitter and begrudging and unkind as the posts here, the overwhelming majority of them seem grateful and supportive and expressing sympathy. Many are sharing their own stories.
This announcement was just recently made, so I don't see how you can say with any certainty it won't change anything in regards to services for women (and fathers). No one except you has claimed a magic wand was waived and now everything is all better. However based off of public feedback so far, it seems clear to me that many have already benefited from the public discourse and maybe feel a bit more understood and less alone in their experience. And that counts for a lot.
Because of Meghan speaking out, others are now sharing their stories which are important to be told and to be read. Meghan spoke up, now here we are talking about it and some are sharing their stories. I read dozens of them online after the story broke. That's the point at the end of the day. It's not that her story is more important than anyone else's, but it encouraged others to speak up about their own. All people's stories and pain deserved to be told and heard.

It's not just restricted to these kinds of charities, but, if you have a charity based around 'issue x' and there's a big media story about it every charity in the world will applaud it while reminding people where they can send their money. Many have celebrity ambassadors for a reason.

Neyite

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well due to Meghan and Harry having one of the world's largest platforms, the related organisations and charities who have come forward to applaud her for speaking up probably have the best grasp of the help it has done for the people using their services. There are conversations about it all over social media and while some are as bitter and begrudging and unkind as the posts here, the overwhelming majority of them seem grateful and supportive and expressing sympathy. Many are sharing their own stories.
This announcement was just recently made, so I don't see how you can say with any certainty it won't change anything in regards to services for women (and fathers). No one except you has claimed a magic wand was waived and now everything is all better. However based off of public feedback so far, it seems clear to me that many have already benefited from the public discourse and maybe feel a bit more understood and less alone in their experience. And that counts for a lot.
Because of Meghan speaking out, others are now sharing their stories which are important to be told and to be read. Meghan spoke up, now here we are talking about it and some are sharing their stories. I read dozens of them online after the story broke. That's the point at the end of the day. It's not that her story is more important than anyone else's, but it encouraged others to speak up about their own. All people's stories and pain deserved to be told and heard.

I shared a little bit of my direct personal experience of five miscarriages and you replied:

Stateofyou wrote: »

What are you saying? In light of all those assumptions you've made, the loss of their baby and future with that child is not as big a deal as it would be to someone who might have struggled more in the course of that experience? You don't know what compounds their personal lives and grief, Neyite. Once again, here's an example of a rubbish viewpoint that if you didn't struggle the most, in someone else's uniformed opinion, then you have no right to speak up at all. This is more harmful to people's mental health. And I'm sure someone struggled more than you, too. So do you deserve kindness in light of that? Someone always has it worse, but we're all still entitled to our feelings in our experiences. She doesn't seem to have your utmost sympathy at all.

Sardonicat

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well due to Meghan and Harry having one of the world's largest platforms, the related organisations and charities who have come forward to applaud her for speaking up probably have the best grasp of the help it has done for the people using their services. There are conversations about it all over social media and while some are as bitter and begrudging and unkind as the posts here, the overwhelming majority of them seem grateful and supportive and expressing sympathy. Many are sharing their own stories.
This announcement was just recently made, so I don't see how you can say with any certainty it won't change anything in regards to services for women (and fathers). No one except you has claimed a magic wand was waived and now everything is all better. However based off of public feedback so far, it seems clear to me that many have already benefited from the public discourse and maybe feel a bit more understood and less alone in their experience. And that counts for a lot.
Because of Meghan speaking out, others are now sharing their stories which are important to be told and to be read. Meghan spoke up, now here we are talking about it and some are sharing their stories. I read dozens of them online after the story broke. That's the point at the end of the day. It's not that her story is more important than anyone else's, but it encouraged others to speak up about their own. All people's stories and pain deserved to be told and heard.

I'm sorry, I still do not understand how or why ordinary people follow famous people or why their personal experiences help anyone and you have failed to demonstrate that. Why should it take Meghan's story and not Neyite's, and the thousands, millions if other couples? Why do these people have a following? What 'work' do they do? Talking is not work. What is wrong with a society, indeed, an individual, who needs a famous person to highlight a social issue for it to become something worth doing something about?

And I have expressed sympathy. I am not unsympathetic to any couple going through this. I'd be inclined to ask them personally what I can do to support them and what they would like me to do and say and not do and not say before I went looking for the celebrity gold plated standard. Meghan's experience is no more real or valid or heartbreaking than anyone else's and is not in any way less. But she hasn't done anything. When did talking about stuff equate to doing something? Why do we give a sh1t about celebrities?

Stateofyou

Neyite wrote: »

I shared a little bit of my direct personal experience of five miscarriages and you replied:

I'm not sure what point you are making here. Your statement here has nothing to do with my replies you have quoted.

Stateofyou

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm sorry, I still do not understand how or why ordinary people follow famous people or why their personal experiences help anyone and you have failed to demonstrate that. Why should it take Meghan's story and not Neyite's, and the thousands, millions if other couples? Why do these people have a following? What 'work' do they do? Talking is not work. What is wrong with a society, indeed, an individual, who needs a famous person to highlight a social issue for it to become something worth doing something about?

And I have expressed sympathy. I am not unsympathetic to any couple going through this. I'd be inclined to ask them personally what I can do to support them and what they would like me to do and say and not do and not say before I went looking for the celebrity gold plated standard. Meghan's experience is no more real or valid or heartbreaking than anyone else's and is not in any way less. But she hasn't done anything. When did talking about stuff equate to doing something? Why do we give a sh1t about celebrities?

Oh good Jesus... there have been famous people that other's follow and listen to going back thousands of years to well, even the time of Jesus. I didn't fail anything, I did in fact demonstrably show with examples how their public story helped others. Their story alone isn't what's changing conversation. It can help bring more awareness on a very large scale but it's everyone's stories together that is eventually going to change the "put up and shut up - others have it worse" culture. When did talking about stuff equate to doing something?" Wow. People need to talk. We don't always need them to "do something." In fact we usually just want to be heard and validated. And some want to be a part of change for better. Shame on her for trying her best!

I find your whole first paragraph very disingenuous. "Why do they have a following?" Ok................ :rolleyes:

Sardonicat

Stateofyou wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you are making here. Your statement here has nothing to do with my replies you have quoted.

You followed a spiel about how Meghan's bravery in sharing her story has encouraged thousands of women to share theirs with an heartless, dismissive and insensitive response to someone's shared story of a very harrowing and lonely experience of miscarriage. Perhaps Meghan needs to re-write her article because you're clearly missing something of her profound message.

Wibbs

Stateofyou wrote: »

All people's stories and pain deserved to be told and heard.

Among good friends and family sure, splashed across social media and the Daily Mail, meh, not so much. There is or should be the concept of over sharing. Though of late it certainly seems like the attention olympics and/or PR with celebrity "culture".

Wibbs

Stateofyou wrote: »

Oh good Jesus... there have been famous people that other's follow and listen to going back thousands of years to well, even the time of Jesus.

It goes well before that. There was an ancient Greek writer(whose name embarrassingly escapes) who was mobbed by fans when he rocked up to one of their colonies in Italy. However what tended to be consistently present in the above was being known for actually doing something of note and usually doing it notably well.

Sardonicat

Stateofyou wrote: »

Oh good Jesus... there have been famous people that other's follow and listen to going back thousands of years to well, even the time of Jesus. I didn't fail anything, I did in fact demonstrably show with examples how their public story helped others. Their story alone isn't what's changing conversation. It can help bring more awareness on a very large scale but it's everyone's stories together that is eventually going to change the "put up and shut up - others have it worse" culture. When did talking about stuff equate to doing something?" Wow. People need to talk. We don't always need them to "do something." In fact we usually just want to be heard and validated. And some want to be a part of change for better. Shame on her for trying her best!

I find your whole first paragraph very disingenuous. "Why do they have a following?" Ok................ :rolleyes:

Oh Sweet Jesus indeed. Intelligent people don't need famous fairytale princesses to tell them how to feel. They never have. Emotionally healthy people learn from their personal experiences and those of their loved ones how to react and respond. Empathetic people dont need a celebrity to tell them 'this thing that's happening in x country causing people to die is bad, please do y to help alleviate the problem'. But some people are just a bit thick, a bit narcissistic and need to feel they are somehow as special as the fairytale pwincesses if they can relate to them and not boring Mary down the road who has gone through the exact same thing but with less support. It sad and frightening how prevalent this has become. 'Oh wow, she sh1ts, I'm just like the pwincess. I'm special too!'

Stateofyou

Sardonicat wrote: »

You followed a spiel about how Meghan's bravery in sharing her story has encouraged thousands of women to share theirs with an heartless, dismissive and insensitive response to someone's shared story of a very harrowing and lonely experience of miscarriage. Perhaps Meghan needs to re-write her article because you're clearly missing something of her profound message.

That isn't at all what happened. You posted a heartless dismissive and insensitive post about her experience and my reply was to that.

Stateofyou

Wibbs wrote: »

Among good friends and family sure, splashed across social media and the Daily Mail, meh, not so much. There is or should be the concept of over sharing. Though of late it certainly seems like the attention olympics and/or PR with celebrity "culture".

That is NOT for you to say. You don't get to tell people when, where and to who they can share their stories.

Sardonicat

Stateofyou wrote: »

That is NOT for you to say. You don't get to tell people when, where and to who they can share their stories.

'I wanna talk about ME! I want everyone to know all about ME! I have a RIGHT to be indulged, listened to and validated by clicks from a like button. Without that I'm not real! '

That's what we've become?

Stateofyou

Sardonicat wrote: »

Oh Sweet Jesus indeed. Intelligent people don't need famous fairytale princesses to tell them how to feel. They never have. Emotionally healthy people learn from their personal experiences and those of their loved ones how to react and respond. Empathetic people dont need a celebrity to tell them 'this thing that's happening in x country causing people to die is bad, please do y to help alleviate the problem'. But some people are just a bit thick, a bit narcissistic and need to feel they are somehow as special as the fairytale pwincesses if they can relate to them and not boring Mary down the road who has gone through the exact same thing but with less support. It sad and frightening how prevalent this has become. 'Oh wow, she sh1ts, I'm just like the pwincess. I'm special too!'

What exactly is your problem here?

Meghan sharing her story in the hopes of it helping alleviate the pain and sorrow for others around a certain experience is wrong because you're bitter about her being a "famous fairytale princess?" Just a few posts back it was said that ordinary people should tell their stories. So now she's too famous to be a real human going through a real and painful experience?

This whole posts comes across as very bitter and begrudging and insulting to the no doubt thousands of people who are grateful and found comfort in her words because of their shared experience. Her words and speaking up helped many as evidenced by social media conversations and related organisations applauding her. But according to you, they're just" thick, a bit narcissistic and need to feel they are somehow as special as the fairytale pwincesses."

Sardonicat

Stateofyou wrote: »

That isn't at all what happened. You posted a heartless dismissive and insensitive post about her experience and my reply was to that.

Please show me where I was insensitive to Meghan. Who won't be reading this. Neyite, however, did read your post, and it was shockinglyinsensistive, especially in light of your spiel about how women have now been given the freedom to share their miscarriage stories because if Meghan's bravery.

Sardonicat

Stateofyou wrote: »

What exactly is your problem here?

Meghan sharing her story in the hopes of it helping alleviate the pain and sorrow for others around a certain experience is wrong because you're bitter about her being a "famous fairytale princess?" Just a few posts back it was said that ordinary people should tell their stories. So now she's too famous to be a real human going through a real and painful experience?

This whole posts comes across as very bitter and begrudging and insulting to the no doubt thousands of people who are grateful and found comfort in her words because of their shared experience. Her words and speaking up helped many as evidenced by social media conversations and related organisations applauding her. But according to you, they're just" thick, a bit narcissistic and need to feel they are somehow as special as the fairytale pwincesses."

I'm despairing at idiots who look to celebrities to validate their existence. I'm despairing that sharing a tragedy equates to doing something. I despair for the future. I genuinely do. FFS, I'm agreeing with Wibbs! What the hell will become if us?

cnocbui

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah thanks S. Goddammit! What are these feelz I'm feelin.

...
Eh... not more of this Irish self critical ballsology. Ireland is one of the safest nations on the planet to go through pregnancy and give birth in and is slightly ahead of the UK and not far off half the risk of mortality of the US with its much vaunted and overpriced health system. We saw similar Irish hairshirt nonsense around the tragedy of that Indian woman who died in childbirth here. Ireland has a rate of around 8 deaths per 100,000, India has a rate of around 180. And we've since changed the law and procedures that will further reduce tragedies like that happening again. There is always room for improvement, but to suggest Ireland's health system is 2nd world is beyond idiotic.

Though maybe notions like that are a further example of people being pessimistic and seeing bad where it doesn't exist or to the degree they think?

Basic human observation of people I've known down the years who have suffered from that illness.

Not self critical, I'm a foreigner being critical of the Irish health system, having experience of it and having come from far better.

Stateofyou

Sardonicat wrote: »

'I wanna talk about ME! I want everyone to know all about ME! I have a RIGHT to be indulged, listened to and validated by clicks from a like button. Without that I'm not real! '

That's what we've become?

So according to you, Meghan and Harry are horrible people and absolutely selfish and narcissistic and have no real need (unlike anyone else) to share their story and hope that it helps themselves and others. According to you, no one is better off from it, and no one has been helped. She's not brave whatsoever sharing her story anyway knowing you and others like you will tear her down for it in an inhumane way. The conversation and stigma felt by many hasn't been lifted one bit and has done absolutely no good whatsoever.

Thousands of other women and men and loss organisations disagree.

Stateofyou

Sardonicat wrote: »

Please show me where I was insensitive to Meghan. Who won't be reading this. Neyite, however, did read your post, and it was shockinglyinsensistive, especially in light of your spiel about how women have now been given the freedom to share their miscarriage stories because if Meghan's bravery.

I can see you are trying very hard to twist up my words to fit your bitter agenda. That doesn't make it true.

Stateofyou

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm despairing at idiots who look to celebrities to validate their existence. I'm despairing that sharing a tragedy equates to doing something. I despair for the future. I genuinely do. FFS, I'm agreeing with Wibbs! What the hell will become if us?

So women (and men) who have found comfort in their words of a shared experience and are grateful are now idiots? Nice.

As I said before, not everything demands action. It's being listened to, validated, and supported that most people need. It's awareness and shared experiences that change conversations and culture. Change takes time. Not sure what you're looking for here.

meeeeh

I guess our reaction to this story will always reflect a bit of what we already think about Megan. For me at this stage is just another story about personal suffering and Hary or her opening up about their feelings for the good of others. Yes I know celebrities sharing their grief might help some but there is so much sharing lately from all sides that I just wish they would find a good shrink and deal with it.

Sardonicat

Stateofyou wrote: »

So according to you, Meghan and Harry are horrible people and absolutely selfish and narcissistic and have no real need (unlike anyone else) to share their story and hope that it helps themselves and others. According to you, no one is better off from it, and no one has been helped. She's not brave whatsoever sharing her story anyway knowing you and others like you will tear her down for it in an inhumane way. The conversation and stigma felt by many hasn't been lifted one bit and has done absolutely no good whatsoever.

Thousands of other women and men and loss organisations disagree.

I haven't uttered one word if criticism about either. I have uttered criticism at the platform they are given by the dopes who lap up their every word as if, by merely being famous, what they have to say is profound. I criticise people who look up to and idolise people for no reason beyond their celebrity and I absolutely abhor the culture that attaches significance to experiences only once they have been validated by celebrities. Meghan and Harry? Couldn't give a sh1t about them. I've never met either and never will. I dont have an opinion about why Meghan wrote what she did beyond it being a symptom of the sick culture we live in. I have nothing against them, hope they and their kid are happy but beyond that I couldn't care less about them. Why do you?

Sardonicat

Stateofyou wrote: »

I can see you are trying very hard to twist up my words to fit your bitter agenda. That doesn't make it true.

Your words are there for all to read and draw their own conclusions

bitofabind

Meghan and Harry hired a bigwig PR guru a few weeks ago. Press hasn't been great lately around the court case and Frogmore Cottage. I'd not discount this being a public image "reset" to catapult them favourably into public discourse.

No-one can touch sensitive subjects like miscarriage and bereavement. "Are you OK" and being kind is very on-brand for 2020. Has Meghan ever asked her own family if they are ok though?

cnocbui

Sardonicat wrote: »

Your words are there for all to read and draw their own conclusions

So are yours.

Sardonicat

cnocbui wrote: »

So are yours.

I'm aware of that.

Stateofyou

Sardonicat wrote: »

I haven't uttered one word if criticism about either. I have uttered criticism at the platform they are given by the dopes who lap up their every word as if, by merely being famous, what they have to say is profound. I criticise people who look up to and idolise people for no reason beyond their celebrity and I absolutely abhor the culture that attaches significance to experiences only once they have been validated by celebrities. Meghan and Harry? Couldn't give a sh1t about them. I've never met either and never will. I dont have an opinion about why Meghan wrote what she did beyond it being a symptom of the sick culture we live in. I have nothing against them, hope they and their kid are happy but beyond that I couldn't care less about them. Why do you?

Not true.

So why are you posting on this thread?

JustAThought

I’d say Harry is fairly sick at having abandoned his family and ‘the throne’ -
him being so far down the pecking order he was irrelevant - for a media free life - to find his wife is a genuine twenty carat media whore and his voluntarily abandoned father, and brother (who lives with the next 2 in line to inherit above him) have all been diagnosed with the highly infectious covid which has killed 200,000 or so in the states alone. Sounds like he should have held fast where he was. I’d say Megan is livid and desperately doing anything & clamouring to stay in the media eye in a sympathetic way. People have long tired of her and her media antics - their feet stamping for attention on armistice day was particularly cheep and distasteful - particularly as millions swore an oath to fight and die for Harrys own family and living granny - something that could hardly have slipped even his attention.

Harry seems to have followed in his fathers footsteps in choosing a wife - one that does exactly whatever she wants to get what she wants regardless of the price and cost to those around them. Camilla 2.0. The insensitive egomaniac apple dosn’t fall far from the family tree in that family line.

Wibbs

Stateofyou wrote: »

That is NOT for you to say. You don't get to tell people when, where and to who they can share their stories.

I can say what I damned well please actually and so can you. It's how this works.

Neyite wrote: »

I shared a little bit of my direct personal experience of five miscarriages and you replied:

You're not famous N.