2 Year Old Won't Sleep - Afraid of the Wind

Pocos

Oregato so sorry to hear all the trouble you have had! Currently pregnant and waiting on baby number two so you have me nervous how baby number one will react!

Could you move her to a double bed? Get rid of the cot, then when she’s upset at night hop in beside her and reassure her! Then move to your own room again or if you fall asleep so be it? That way you may get more sleep! Even if you got a bed in the room for w week got a good weeks sleep yourself. You could start seeing things more clearly? The lack of sleep at this rate you couldn’t possible be thinking straight or responding best after a month plus!

I know no one wants their two year old in their bed but you need sleep.

As for cry it out I personally can’t do it! I don’t think toddlers are manipulative enough myself but each to their own! Also all children are different!

Best of luck with it

OREGATO

Hi folks,

So an update

Things have been rough the past few nights. She's waking around 11 or 12 each night and it's taking over an hour to settle her. She goes absolutely bonkers and is inconsolable. She keeps screaming at both of us to leave and then roars her head off in the room. We sometimes need to take her out into another room and show her outside and she asks what's this or what's that and then she calms a bit.

This has been the past few nights and we are both mentally and physically drained from it.

We pushed back bedtime to 730 as she wasn't settling at bed time, she'd jump around in the cot and would be disobeying us when we tell her to lie down, throwing her Dody out and trying to climb out asking to get down.

If anyone has any experience with sleep consultants or can recommend one, please post or pm me your experiences please. That's the only thing we can think of at this stage.

As for moving her into a room with a double bed, we have just moved her to the back box room and I don't know if moving her to a double bed will help as I feel she will just try to escape constantly.

Any help appreciated. I'm really run down from the last 2 months.

OctoberMammy

This may not help (and it might seem counter-intuitive), but is there any chance you could try to put her down even earlier than 7? Even if it's just for a few nights, to see if it makes a difference? I only say that because we had a bad period for about a month after Christmas when our fella was a NIGHTMARE to go down. He had been going to bed around 7 or just after (sometimes we pushed it closer to 7.30 to wait til he got more 'tired') and it was taking 40 mins to 1 hour to settle him most nights - he was just rolling around, banging the cot, sitting up, etc. And he was having quite a restless sleep when he did eventually go down.

We started putting him down around 6.30pm again and he goes down *touch wood* immediately most nights now, even if he hasn't seemed that tired beforehand. I think they reach a point of overtiredness and then a switch flips and their bodies flood with adrenaline, and they're all go-go-go again. If you can get to them before that happens it makes life a bit easier, at least in my experience. And it might make a difference to her being in a more restful/deeper sleep and not waking up as easily with the wind.

Some people would say 6.30pm is an early bedtime (and it is), but it's what works for us at the moment and he won't always go to bed at 6.30pm.

Not saying this will solve your problem but might be worth a shot for a few nights? Good luck, it's not easy.

Skybirdjb

My fella has been going earlier too these days and it seems to work for us touch wood . He’s in bed by 6:45 and asleep by 7 . Just adding something to the mix here my fella had lots of trouble with his poos . He was waking every night screaming and had a hard time going for a poo . We brought him to gp and he has been on movicol for 2 months now and no waking screaming since .
I recon he had cramps that’s were waking him cause of the poo . Might seem silly but does she have any troubles going for a poo ??

OREGATO

OctoberMammy wrote: »

This may not help (and it might seem counter-intuitive), but is there any chance you could try to put her down even earlier than 7? Even if it's just for a few nights, to see if it makes a difference? I only say that because we had a bad period for about a month after Christmas when our fella was a NIGHTMARE to go down. He had been going to bed around 7 or just after (sometimes we pushed it closer to 7.30 to wait til he got more 'tired') and it was taking 40 mins to 1 hour to settle him most nights - he was just rolling around, banging the cot, sitting up, etc. And he was having quite a restless sleep when he did eventually go down.

We started putting him down around 6.30pm again and he goes down *touch wood* immediately most nights now, even if he hasn't seemed that tired beforehand. I think they reach a point of overtiredness and then a switch flips and their bodies flood with adrenaline, and they're all go-go-go again. If you can get to them before that happens it makes life a bit easier, at least in my experience. And it might make a difference to her being in a more restful/deeper sleep and not waking up as easily with the wind.

Some people would say 6.30pm is an early bedtime (and it is), but it's what works for us at the moment and he won't always go to bed at 6.30pm.

Not saying this will solve your problem but might be worth a shot for a few nights? Good luck, it's not easy.

Good advice, we heard of this before and at this point we have nothing to lose. I might try bring her up for 630 tomorrow and see how we go. Thing is, before all this happened, her bedtime was 640 and she was really easy going down, I'd be back downstairs for 7 to make dinner or do other bits but the past two months as you can see from this thread have been a disaster.

Skybirdjb wrote: »

My fella has been going earlier too these days and it seems to work for us touch wood . He’s in bed by 6:45 and asleep by 7 . Just adding something to the mix here my fella had lots of trouble with his poos . He was waking every night screaming and had a hard time going for a poo . We brought him to gp and he has been on movicol for 2 months now and no waking screaming since .
I recon he had cramps that’s were waking him cause of the poo . Might seem silly but does she have any troubles going for a poo ??

She had issues back in June last year where she would poop maybe an hour or two after going down to bed, kept happening for weeks and it was hell. Thankfully she does her business in the early evening after creche, anywhere from 5 to 6pm. She does say her belly is sore before she goes but we're not sure if it's pain or if it's just a sensation she doesn't understand yet if that makes sense.

Pocos

She had issues back in June last year where she would poop maybe an hour or two after going down to bed, kept happening for weeks and it was hell. Thankfully she does her business in the early evening after creche, anywhere from 5 to 6pm. She does say her belly is sore before she goes but we're not sure if it's pain or if it's just a sensation she doesn't understand yet if that makes sense.[/quote]

We have been getting the same complaint from our little one about pain in the back or tummy too! And usually around a poo or when she breaks wind! Never thought it but the sensation might be the reason!

Any idea why she wakes? Like does she like her cot? Does she fall asleep with ye at bedtime or can you leave her?
I think the biggest thing with night waking with kids is if something has changed since they fell asleep and now woken up! Example fall asleep in your arms then wake up in cot!
Rocked to sleep then rocking not there when she wakes
So If ye are in the room when she falls asleep is it she’s upset to wake up alone??
Would you try her in your own bed for a night and see? Any improvement?

I honestly feel so bad for ye it’s just torture and so hard to enjoy your children when you are so tired and 2 year olds have SOOOO much energy when they are awake! It’s very draining

Pocos

Regarding sleep consultants I know a girl in work swears by Lucy Wolfe she got one on one help with her! Another friend the same thought she was brilliant

Another girl in work swears by the book she has!

Now I think it’s something like €500 thought which is madness but look anything for sleep! Ye can’t continue this much longer

OREGATO

Another disastrous night is looming. An absolute nightmare to put down. I tried to put her down at 640 and she seemed to settle but got up at 705 and roared the house down. Wife got her settled and she woke 5 minutes ago just screaming her head off. It's not night terrors. She's fully awake. Screaming mammy go away and daddy go away. Complete disaster. I just wish we cod settle or calm her but nothing and I mean nothing will.

My wife spoke to a sleep consultant today and her first availability is end of March. Lucy Wolfe was later and we don't feel we can wait. She said it sounds like she's playing us and running rings around us which she obviously is and we've no idea how to deal with it right now.

shesty

I admit Oregato, I have started and stopped this post a few times since you last posted.But look, here goes.The first thing is just be aware a sleep consultant will focus mainly on you and your wife and what you are doing.Their focus will mostly be on changing your behaviour, and in doing so, it should help your daughter out.

The second thing is just one word that jumped out a couple of posts ago ...'disobeying you' by not lying down.Let her.Pick your battles and that isn't one of them.She isn't disobeying, she is just being 2.I have said earlier I have a 21 mth old....every night his method of going to sleep is throwing soothers out, throwing himself around the cot, doing some shouting.Tonight it went on until...well I am not sure, but certainly around 8.30 I think.We let him at it.Went in to replace his soothers a couple of times, and unbundle his blanket,but that was it.I just straightened him out there, he fell asleep upside down on top of everything with bears everywhere.So don't take it personally that she won't lie down, and let her at it.It doesn't matter how long it takes.You can't make her go to sleep, she has to do that herself.And it takes as long as it takes.Honestly, if I were you, I would pay no heed to the "no mammy, no daddy" thing either.One of you goes in, sorts her out, and either go out for another few mins and come back, or sit with her.Don't try swapping around to appease her, because frankly, she will know you don't know what to do and she has the power...and it will make it worse.She needs you to be in charge here, even if you feel like you haven't a clue what you are at.

I appreciate I probably sound like it's all very simple, and I know it's not.I know lots of people won't agree.But you sound like you have tried sleeping with her too, and it isn't working for any of you either, including her. She sounds like she is going through a big developmental thing here, and it can be really hard to deal with.Hopefully the sleep consultant will help you out because when you are tired, and in the middle of it, you can't see the wood from the trees and outside eyes are always good.

OREGATO

Thanks for the reply Shesty.

She's still screaming her head off and my wife has gone in and refused to let her out of the cot. She's the patience of a saint, I couldn't do it.

I probably worded things badly in previous posts as some were written in the middle of the night or while I had very bad or little sleep. We understand she's two and she's not disobeying, it's just what kids that age do I suppose. I don't take offence to it, I was feeling bad about the no daddy/no mammy thing but have come to realize she's just playing us or acting out.

Leaving her to thrash around the cot doesn't seem to work for us, she gets unconsolable and hysterical if we leave the room and end up with nights like tonight. If she was in her cot and bouncing around happy out to wear herself out I wouldn't care! Like, when either of us go into her, there is no sorting her out without lifting her out to the other bedroom to look out the window or bringing her to the stairs to look downstairs at the dark.

Trying to settle her and not giving in to lifting her out is fine before midnight but when it's the middle of the night and we are both exhausted and don't want our 4 month old to get woken, I end up giving in and sleeping on the floor or taking her out to the other room to look out the window to calm down.

I've a lot of guilt built up thinking it's my fault as I've had to do a lot more night care with her since our 4 month old was born, like I feel it's my fault she's like this, whatever I've been doing for the past 4 or 5 months has made her worse

Since I started writing this my wife has managed to calm her. But given the patterns from the last 2 months, when she is this hysterical early on in the night it means at least 2 or 3 more unconsolable tantrums/screaming fits for the rest of the night.

Pocos

Oregato YOU HAVE DONe NOTHING WRONG!!! No one knows how to handle kids we are all just learning on the job there’s no manual no two kids are the same! It’s so so so so hard! There are days I feel like pulling up on the side of the road and throwing herself out and driving off! 2 year olds are tough! Anyone who says otherwise has been lucky and has a placid child, that is nature and it’s the luck of the draw!

I would really find it hard to think a two year old is “playing” ye against each other! I just think it’s a development thing or the new baby has affected your little one! It sounds like your little one has no idea what she wants, and is frustrated as she can’t tell you how she is feeling! Imagine not having the language skills to explain when you are annoyed!!!

Have ye tried letting her lead? So literally letting her make all the decisions? Just for one night let’s say tomorrow as it’s Friday! And the weekend is coming! What pjs she wants? What book? Who to bring her to bed? Are you ready now? When do you want to go to bed? I know it could be 12 by the time she wants to go but you can observe her and her queues when she is tired! Because you are second guessing everything at the moment, bringing too early, bringing too late it’s a minefield!
Maybe If the process is calm and relaxed she might be more inclined to go to sleep and relaxed to go into a deep sleep! It’s sounds hippy and I know loads would say 2 years olds can’t make these decisions you need to be in charge! Yes I get that but I def know when our little one thinks it’s her idea regarding anything she’s far more placid and it’s far easier than making her do something she doesn’t want to

Because the whole thing sounds very stressful and imagine if someone sent you to bed at 3 in the day and expected you to sleep all night and you not tired??? Look it’s just another option!

Sleep consultant is a great idea and as someone said they can help you see the wood from the trees! Because sleep deprivation is a form of torture and ye are def in the middle of it!

Honestly my heart goes out to you and your wife and it’s so hard not to think it’s something ye have done but it’s not! It’s just your child’s personality and ye dealt with the situation best ye could at that given time! No one else in the world could have done anything differently so don’t feel it’s ye! As it could be any of us with a 2 year old! They are unpredictable and they aren’t called the “terrible twos” for nothin

Pocos

Sorry now I’m no expert and haven’t a clue! So sorry about another post but I just was thinking!

What exactly does your little girl want? Like In what scenario does she sleep the longest?

You mentioned you’ve had to sleep on the floor beside the cot! Does she just want ye in the room? Could you move her cot into your bedroom for a little bit? Then she’s knows ye are there all night and it might settle her into sleeping deeper or longer!

Like I know you and your wife are exhausted but I can only imagine your little girl must be beyond tired! Good sleep brings on good sleep.. so even if you got a few good nights for her and yourselves ye may be better at tackling problems next week!

You mentioned ye don’t want to give bad habits like sharing beds or what ever but what you are doing is doing no one any favours! A few nights rest and at least you might be able to think a little bit clearer!

Anyway I do wish ye the best of luck sounds like a very tough situation

OREGATO

We don't know what she wants to be honest. She's just in her cot screaming her head off saying no daddy or no mammy or screaming for one of us. She wants to get down out of her cot which is something we can't keep giving into. We are not sure she knows what she wants herself.

She sleeps longest when we give into her demands during her bedtime routine like taking her into the room next to hers to look out the window. Some nights she doesn't ask for this and stays calm in her cot, over the past two months we've almost stayed in the room with her until she's asleep at bed time. If we don't pander to her and run in she gets worked up and the night ends up really really hard, like tonight.

We've tried to be consistent but nothing works. Admittedly, we've tried different things throughout the last two months and nothing has seemed to work. When we get her down, she will wake at some point from 1130 to 2 or 3am screaming and inconsolable, some nights she'll wake once and take an hour to settle, other nights it's several times a night.

Moving her cot into our room isn't an option and we don't want that to become the norm. Moving her cot also involves disassembling her cot and reassembling it so it's not an easy thing to try for a night or two. I'm not sure if she wants us in the room or not, when she's screaming like this we are not sure if she wants us there or not.

The comment about playing us off each other was made by the sleep consultant, I didn't speak to her, my wife did and I think what she meant was that she is playing us in general as opposed to playing us off each other. Like she knows what to do to get our attention, the whole scared of the wind or airplanes or noises is just her way of grabbing our attention.

She's started screaming 20 minutes ago and I've had to get my wife to go in as I really am finding the night tough as is my poor wife.

I'm not sure if we can let her lead and determine her own bedtime, i think if we did that, she would just get over tired and we would still have a bad night. We are both out of ideas and it's nearly three weeks until the sleep consultant is free. I don't know how I'll cope with another night like this let alone a few weeks.

fits

You are overly hung up on her being in her room. To everyone’s detriment. You just need to get through this phase. Think of it as supporting her rather than pandering to her.

I’ve said it before but I’ll say once again. If I were you I’d ditch the cot , get a mattress on the floor and stay with her. You can move out when she settles then. And a later bedtime. 8 pm is perfect here.

fits

^ Im sorry if that was abrupt, I just think you need to stop focussing on a hypothetical problem that you dont have and deal with the problem that you do have.

Pocos

fits wrote: »

You are overly hung up on her being in her room. To everyone’s detriment. You just need to get through this phase. Think of it as supporting her rather than pandering to her.

I’ve said it before but I’ll say once again. If I were you I’d ditch the cot , get a mattress on the floor and stay with her. You can move out when she settles then. And a later bedtime. 8 pm is perfect here.

Oregato I have to 100% agree with what fits says!!! You are trying to avoid a problem you don’t have ie having her in your room for the future!

Fits idea of a mattress on the floor and sleep beside her! Two years aren’t clever enough to manipulate you! I genuinely think she’s waking up and is scared as she’s in a cot in the room on her own! When she fell asleep ye were there and now you aren’t.

Also didn’t you mention ye have moved her room recently to a back room! So that’s new and can throw them! Your insistence on her sleeping in the cot in a room on her own seems to me to be the problem?

As fits says support her it’s not pandering! Ye have been strict and it’s not working!

As for her getting over tired with a later bedtime there’s no way after 3 weeks she isn’t overtired at this point!

Why the insistence on the cot? She’s 2 she will be out of it in the next few months (assuming you will need it for 4 month old!) it sounds like you are listening or thinking that she SHOULD sleep all night in a cot and she SHOULD be able to self soothe! Listen to your little girl she is struggling to do those things! Try and help her rather than fight her!

But I don’t have all the answers! But sometimes it’s easier to see the problem clearer as I’m getting sleep you aren’t!

I would do what ever I had to get give everyone sleep for the next 3 weeks and then take advice of sleep consultant!

shesty

Yeah Oregato, please know you have done nothing wrong.She is 2.Their sleep goes haywire at 2.They practiclaly have to re-learn all over again how to sleep, what to do.You have a 4 month old.I mean, you are mid-chaos here, even without the sleep deprivation.There is no manual for babies.

None of us are sitting there every night with you so we cannot make other suggestions.Hopefully that is where the sleep consultant will help.
She is not doing.anything with malice, she is just 2.New power, interestingly she can get mammy and daddy to hang around and maybe do what she wants, she is just trying that out.Don't worry about it, it is totally natural.There is a reason that sleep consultant is not available til end March...you are far from the only parent to have these problems.Don't apologise for what works for your family as regards sleeping...here, all 3 sleep in their beds in their rooms, and that's what works for us.I know plenty other people doing different things, to get sleep for themselves.It is just survival, especially with 2 smallies, you do what you have to.

Just get through the next few weeks, and hopefully she will help you find a solution that works for you all.

OctoberMammy

How have things been lately, OP?

Pocos

Hey oregatto,

Any improvement on the sleep situation?

OREGATO

Sorry for the radio silence, between Covid 19 etc etc I haven't had a chance to come back and respond.

Over the past month we've worked with a sleep consultant. We tried the chair method to no avail then moved to timed intervals (max 10 minutes) and had some success for 10 nights or so - she was easily settled when she woke and went down much easier at bed and nap times. We were thinking we were over the worst of this..

However, over the past two nights, out of nowhere, she's a disaster again, absolute disaster, same as before and the methods we've been using the past 2 weeks have just stopped working, so feels like we're back to square one and our time with the sleep consultant has officially ended.

She woke tonight at 11pm and it's been 45 minutes of going in and out like a yo yo to her but nothing calms her, she stands in the cot, taking off her trousers, throwing everything out of the cot, screaming her head off.

So disheartened, so drained, so fed up. I don't know any more. We are both absolute drained.

drunkmonkey

I'd up the 10 minute intervals, your back doing what you were at the start because of one or two bad nights. Stick to the plan. You can't keep going in and out like a yoyo.

OREGATO

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd up the 10 minute intervals, your back doing what you were at the start because of one or two bad nights. Stick to the plan. You can't keep going in and out like a yoyo.

We are sticking to the plan of up to 10 minute intervals but she's not calming. She still goes mad and never settles herself, ever since we started the intervals, she still needs us to go in after the elapsed time and then she'll settle when we bow down and put everything back into her cot etc. I feel if we leave it even longer, she'll get more and more hysterical.... So I'm completely lost.

shesty

Keep at it.
Sorry.I know its disheartening.Toddlers are very relentless though.I remember 3 weeks of relentlessly using a consistent approach over and over and over again every night before I saw light at the end of a tunnel....and it is tougher when they are older and have more opinions.

Pocos

Sorry to hear this oregato!

Must be very disheartening any improvement? Did the sleep consultant give any reason why your toddler behaves this way?

drunkmonkey

Just a thought, do either of you let her use a phone or tablet, our just gone 2yrd has had use of one a couple of times over lockdown and she's an absolute nightmare to get to bed if she's used it. She won't be getting it again, it's literally only happened on the days she had it. Saying that she does sleep all night. Her bed time is now close to 9.30 and she sleeps between 2 to 4 every day, she probably wakes up around 8.30, she's fast asleep now and the birds are chirping like mad outside her window.

fits

Theres lots of good advice earlier in this thread. Maybe read through it again.