Flight 752 brought down by Iran - mod warning in |OP

markodaly

alastair wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/france-to-analyze-ethiopian-airlines-fli-idUSKCN1QU2T7

What is that supposed to tell me. It does not tell me whether the investigation team completed their ground investigation before that picture was taken.

What we do know is that Iran cleared the site, before an international team even arrived into Iran.

Beasty

It's quite clear that posters currently dominating this thread fall into one of two camps with each side claiming they are right and the other side wrong

None of you can know for sure, so please stop all of these accusations of lying or getting it wrong. You are entitled to express your own views and opinions. Please, going forward, once you have stated your position just move on rather than getting into all this tit for tat stuff (which, frankly, you should be ashamed of). If necessary I'll issue threadbans to bring an end to all this bickering

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread

alastair

markodaly wrote: »

What is that supposed to tell me. It does not tell me whether the investigation team completed their ground investigation before that picture was taken.

What we do know is that Iran cleared the site, before an international team even arrived into Iran.

Well - the Ethiopian Airlines investigators found evidence in the wreckage on the 15th, and that photo was taken on the 13th, so it’s pretty clear the wreckage investigation wasn’t completed.

charlie14

markodaly wrote: »

What is that supposed to tell me. It does not tell me whether the investigation team completed their ground investigation before that picture was taken.

What we do know is that Iran cleared the site, before an international team even arrived into Iran.

If you are genuinely interested I have posted on the international proper protocols and procedures. #205 and #220.


If you just want to speculate and theorise then work away.

Woodsie1

alastair wrote: »

Well - the Ethiopian Airlines investigators found evidence in the wreckage on the 15th, and that photo was taken on the 13th, so it’s pretty clear the wreckage investigation wasn’t completed.

Sounds like they were lucky to find something after an accident scene had been disturbed before investigators completed a thorough investigation.

Might not get so lucky in this instance.

Timberrrrrrrr

Spook_ie wrote: »

Start of conspiracy theory....

Suppose USA had a black ops team in Iran with orders to embarrass the regime in anyway that could bring about more civil strife aimed at regime change if they could, far fetched, maybe. Plausible, maybe.

This wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, shoot down a plane that has many Canadian citizens on it (Trump hates Treadue) and accuse Iran of it. Get worldwide support for further actions against Iran. Classic US deflection/distraction tactics (see WMD lies) to garner support for another invasion.

pearcider

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

This wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, shoot down a plane that has many Canadian citizens on it (Trump hates Treadue) and accuse Iran of it. Get worldwide support for further actions against Iran. Classic US deflection/distraction tactics (see WMD lies) to garner support for another invasion.

You’re nuts.

charlie14

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Sounds like they were lucky to find something after an accident scene had been disturbed before investigators completed a thorough investigation.

Might not get so lucky in this instance.

The first priority for crash investigators is to locate the flight recorders.
After that it is to preserve as much of the wreckage as is found.
It is very common to do this, in fact recommended, to do this by moving it to a secure location as crash wreckage can be spread over a very large area and impossible to secure otherwise.

Woodsie1

charlie14 wrote: »

The first priority for crash investigators is to locate the flight recorders.
After that it is to preserve as much of the wreckage as is found.
It is very common to do this, in fact recommended, to do this by moving it to a secure location as crash wreckage can be spread over a very large area and impossible to secure otherwise.

Problem is there was only Iranian crash investigators making the call to move the debris so its more "secure"

alastair

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Problem is there was only Iranian crash investigators making the call to move the debris so its more "secure"

Why is that a problem?

Gatling

charlie14 wrote: »

in fact recommended, to do this by moving it to a secure location as crash wreckage can be spread over a very large area and impossible to secure otherwise.

According to who.

So just let someone with.heavy construction equipment start removing evidence from the scene no documentation of any kind , before investors can forensically examine the scene.

That's not how any kind of investigation is carried out

alastair

Gatling wrote: »

According to who.

So just let someone with.heavy construction equipment start removing evidence from the scene no documentation of any kind , before investors can forensically examine the scene.

That's not how any kind of investigation is carried out

You’ve no idea what documentation or forensic investigation had been undertaken. You couldn’t manage to look at the photos taken on site.

Timberrrrrrrr

pearcider wrote: »

You’re nuts.

Yet you just accept the version you are fed :rolleyes:

Timberrrrrrrr

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Problem is there was only Iranian crash investigators making the call to move the debris so its more "secure"

There only US "crash investigators" involved in making the call to move the debris so its more secure.

Does that make 9-11 a cover up?

charlie14

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Problem is there was only Iranian crash investigators making the call to move the debris so its more "secure"

From my understanding Ukraine had crash scene investigators on site as well.
I have not heard Ukraine, Boeing or Canada having a problem with it so I do not know what the big deal here is for following internationally agreed procedures.


Btw, the fact that the flight recorders recovery are the primary objective shows where the wreckage comes in the investigation

alastair

https://theconversation.com/heres-how-airplane-crash-investigations-work-according-to-an-aviation-safety-expert-113602

Woodsie1

alastair wrote: »

, so it’s pretty clear the wreckage investigation wasn’t completed.

alastair wrote: »

Why is that a problem?

You said it yourself.

Woodsie1

charlie14 wrote: »

From my understanding Ukraine had crash scene investigators on site as well.
I have not heard Ukraine, Boeing or Canada having a problem with it so I do not know what the big deal here is for following internationally agreed procedures.


Btw, the fact that the flight recorders recovery are the primary objective shows where the wreckage comes in the investigation

You know the Ukrainians were there before the bulldozers,do you?

Never said it was a big deal,said it could be a problem.

BTW that point has nothing to do with what I said.

alastair

Woodsie1 wrote: »

You said it yourself.

I said what? The Ethiopian Airlines investigation resulted in establishing the cause of the crash. There wasn’t any problem with that investigation. The norm is to move the debris to a hanger and piece a jigsaw reconstruction back together. That’s what happened in the Ethiopian Airlines investigation, and with most of them.

charlie14

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Problem is there was only Iranian crash investigators making the call to move the debris so its more "secure"

Of course it was the call of the Iranian Aviation Authority, the protocols are very clear that securing the wreckage is their responsibility.
Same as any other Aviation Authority in any country that has signed up to follow the procedures and protocols of the ICAO.
Again, why is it a problem here ?
It is internationally recognised best practice that none of the countries, or even the manufacturer, involved appear to have a problem with.

Woodsie1

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There only US "crash investigators" involved in making the call to move the debris so its more secure.

Does that make 9-11 a cover up?

American planes from American airports crashing in America
Its not the same situation.

charlie14

Woodsie1 wrote: »

You know the Ukrainians were there before the bulldozers,do you?

Never said it was a big deal,said it could be a problem.

BTW that point has nothing to do with what I said.

Do you know the Ukrainians were not, or that they have express anything that indicates they had a problem with it ?

Woodsie1

alastair wrote: »

, so it’s pretty clear the wreckage investigation wasn’t completed.

You said this.
cant make it any clearer for you

smurfjed

The Iranian Aviation Authority have followed proper procedure to the letter.
Anyone here suggesting they have not does not know what they are talking about.

they might have followed ICAO ANNEX 13, but what about the other requirements relating to actually conducting the investigation ?

Removing the aircraft parts in such a rapid manner has given them the opportunity to sterilize the crash scene by removing any other aerial vehicle parts.

Woodsie1

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yet you just accept the version you are fed :rolleyes:

I think the idea that Iran shot the plane down on mistake is the most plausible explanation

Timberrrrrrrr

Woodsie1 wrote: »

American planes from American airports crashing in America
Its not the same situation.

Yeah, no issue there at all at all :rolleyes:

alastair

Woodsie1 wrote: »

You said this.
cant make it any clearer for you

Yes I did say that. And what of it?

Woodsie1

charlie14 wrote: »

Do you know the Ukrainians were not, or that they have express anything that indicates they had a problem with it ?

Picture of the dozers on site surfaced same time as reports of invitation of Ukrainians to investigate

Timberrrrrrrr

Woodsie1 wrote: »

I think the idea that Iran shot the plane down on mistake is the most plausible explanation

Not denying this, but until a conclusion is arrived at I won't believe either sides spin.

alastair

smurfjed wrote: »

they might have followed ICAO ANNEX 13, but what about the other requirements relating to actually conducting the investigation ?

Removing the aircraft parts in such a rapid manner has given them the opportunity to sterilize the crash scene by removing any other aerial vehicle parts.

There wouldn’t be any other aerial vehicle parts there. The pic of the missile head was not at the crash site. If it was hit by a missile the fragment holes in the skin if the plane will be sufficient to determine if it was hit by one.