Flight 752 brought down by Iran - mod warning in |OP

MeMen2_MoRi_

"The newspaper reported that that message was forwarded to Washington within five minutes, and convinced Trump to stand down"

https://www.insider.com/us-swiss-intermediaries-backchannel-communicate-iran-2020-1

What's the time line on things, from the last missile fired at the bases to the plane being shot down?

MeMen2_MoRi_

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Iran/ IRGC showed this image during their press conference.

Green- is the location the missile was launched from
Red blast- is location the plane got hit.
Iran tracks the plane from the airport to where the missile hit on the map.

Is the green also where the sensitive base is?

the_syco

markodaly wrote: »

This is looking bad for the regime.

Losing face both at home and abroad.

Iran will shut off the internet, and shoot any protesters. They don't care how it looks internally. And as other countries are the ones dropping sanctions on them, I doubt they'll care what they say either.

markodaly wrote: »

A real pity because Iran itself could be a very open, liberal country if given the right leadership and chance.

That sort of leadership would just get whacked :pac:

MadYaker wrote: »

He set in motion a train of events that led to that plane being shot down and although it was the iranians who are resposible he shares a small portion of the blame.

Will you blame MH17 on Obama?

LillySV wrote: »

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=TrYV_1578828004

More proof that Iran isnt as fantastic as some think

No surprise.
Dorsa Derakhshaniand Shohreh Bayat have also decided not to play for Iran.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Iran air-defences were on high alertness awareness because of Trump threats to strike Iran. The plane would not have got shot down otherwise. Iran was awaiting a possible response from the US military, that night

America has only hit Iran down south. The plane was hit up north.

the_syco

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Iran/ IRGC showed this image during their press conference.

Green- is the location the missile was launched from
Red blast- is location the plane got hit.
Iran tracks the plane from the airport to where the missile hit on the map.
Red dot to the left where the general pointing to- Iran claims the plane when got hit turned to the right to go back to airport, but never made it.

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/flight-ps-752-deliberately-shot/
The plane has flown that way multiple times before. As has other planes.

Cheerful Spring2

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Is the green also where the sensitive base is?

He just says green is where anti air unit is deployed, and unit fired the missiles from there. Belllingcat I believe said there was an IRGC base there.

Gatling

the_syco wrote: »

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/flight-ps-752-deliberately-shot/
The plane has flown that way multiple times before. As has other planes.

The plane never turned ,

I said they would claim the aircraft falling to the right after it was apparently hit with two missiles would be used to claim flight 752 had changed course .

If you shoot down an aircraft flying straight and it's wreckage lands off to one side its not proof it turned intentionally.

Cheerful Spring2

the_syco wrote: »

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/flight-ps-752-deliberately-shot/
The plane has flown that way multiple times before. As has other planes.

Iran accepting the blame. The report states the mobile air unit had technical difficulties and identified, it as a cruise missile and operator tried to make contact with command and control, communications broke down. The operator had to react fast, and believing they were under attack; he launched missiles at the approaching object. 

cosybeach

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Iranian people genuinely wanted change people would fill the streets and cause chaos. You have thousands of Iranian individuals turning up and not a higher number the west claims it to be. The 1500 murdered is a US figure, there is no evidence that truly occurred. If Iran truly killed 1500 people the Iranian people would riot that too high of a number for the Iranian people to tolerate.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/shot-killed-protests-iran-admits-time-191203072043278.html
Above t says 100 if that happened any where in the world it would be considered a mass state killing, reuters suggest it was many hundreds you can give your number killed with link to back up.... or just keep throw clown posts here "anti american dumb-ass"

Cheerful Spring2

cosybeach wrote: »

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/shot-killed-protests-iran-admits-time-191203072043278.html
Above t says 100 if that happened any where in the world it would be considered a mass state killing, reuters suggest it was many hundreds you can give your number killed with link to back up.... or just keep throw clown posts here "anti american dumb-ass"

You said 1500 people. Now it 100 or 100s. I don't condone murder. Iran is a country of 80 million people and a country in middle east where this happens a lot. If millions come out and demand change that something.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

. The report states

Of course Iran state, but well Iran are not telling the truth

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

Of course Iran state, but well Iran are not telling the truth

Iran admitted, the shot it down. They're not blaming the plane pilot. Do you know what self blame is?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Iran admitted, the shot it down.

And yet and still telling more lies to pass the blame .


Iran's claims have all being dunked and yet you repeat verbatim as its spouted out

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

And yet and still telling more lies to pass the blame .


Iran's claims have all being dunked and yet you repeat verbatim as its spouted out

The report clearly states it was Iranian errors that caused the crash. There nobody else to blame. 

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The report clearly states it was Iranian errors that caused the crash

Shooting down - it was not a crash

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

Shooting down - it was not a crash

Iran taken the blame, so they're not much to talk about. Iran hopefully will not make this mistake again.  

Discodog

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Iran reports there were communication transmissions problems between the mobile anti-air system and control and command elsewhere. Iran blaming the operator and saying technical difficulties was why the plane got shot down.

Iran Army also partially blamed the Iranian Aviation board for not cancelling civilian flights. The requested all civilian aircraft to not fly after the attack in Iraq, and were turned down. Iran to blame for allowing commercial planes to fly!

Trump is also to blame, his stupid activities, lead to this event. 

IRGC also maintains some leaders did not know one of their missiles hit the plane. IRGC was still carrying out an internal investigation. When it finished the report and review and learned one of their missiles hit the plane, they informed the Iranian leadership and news was broke on Friday.

Iran claim, you can believe or not?

Trump killed a murderer to prevent even more murders. I can't stand the man but, in this case he was right. Iran chose to start lobbing missiles around & have paid a huge price.

Manic Moran

Cruise missiles don’t normally fly at 7,000 ft. I’m not even sure if it’s possible to program an American cruise missile to fly at that altitude. One may also inquire as to the size of the return, but it’s possible the SAM acquisition system doesn’t distinguish that sort of thing. One might be surprised how basic even American equipment can be.

There seems to have been a failure in basic critical thinking by the operator.

tuxy

I think this incident is probably most similar to what happened to Iran Air Flight 655.

Can we expect Iran to be as professional about it as the US was back then?
Iran could take what the US did about it and use it as a guideline.

Timberrrrrrrr

Manic Moran wrote: »

Cruise missiles don’t normally fly at 7,000 ft. I’m not even sure if it’s possible to program an American cruise missile to fly at that altitude. One may also inquire as to the size of the return, but it’s possible the SAM acquisition system doesn’t distinguish that sort of thing. One might be surprised how basic even American equipment can be.

There seems to have been a failure in basic critical thinking by the operator.

https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-threat-and-proliferation/missile-basics/cruise-missile-basics/

Cruise missiles can fly to their targets at varying altitudes as long as they remain within the atmosphere. The trajectory of most remains close to the Earth’s surface, sometimes skimming just meters above the ground. Their low flight path makes it much harder for most radar and sensor systems to detect the missile, unless the radar or sensor system is airborne and directed towards the ground. [13] Some cruise missiles will fly only at high altitudes and dive sharply down once they reach their target. Flying at high altitude can extend the range of the missile because it’s more fuel-efficient than flying at lower altitudes. However, this also makes the missile more susceptible to missile defense systems since today’s radars and sensors are typically positioned to detect and track high altitude threats. [14] Cruise missiles can also mix their flight trajectory between high and low altitude in order to get the benefits of both. In this instance, cruise missiles will typically fly at a high altitude early in their flight to help extend their range, but as they approach their target, or missile defenses, they will fly down to a lower sea skimming/terrain hugging altitude to help it evade detection and defenses. [15]

Gatling

Tomahawk cruise missiles flight altitude

Flight altitude
98–164 ft (30–50 m) AGL[4]

suicide_circus

wonder how long the protests will go on for?

Timberrrrrrrr

Gatling wrote: »

Tomahawk cruise missiles flight altitude

Flight altitude
98–164 ft (30–50 m) AGL[4]

Some cruise missiles will fly only at high altitudes and dive sharply down once they reach their target. Flying at high altitude can extend the range of the missile because it’s more fuel-efficient than flying at lower altitudes. However, this also makes the missile more susceptible to missile defense systems since today’s radars and sensors are typically positioned to detect and track high altitude threats. [14] Cruise missiles can also mix their flight trajectory between high and low altitude in order to get the benefits of both.

They can fly at both high and low altitude.

skallywag

Gatling wrote: »

And yet and still telling more lies to pass the blame .

It was shot down because it was perceived (incorrectly) as a threat from an incoming aircraft or missile.

What difference does it make to you whether it was a missile or an aircraft?

Gatling

skallywag wrote: »

It was shot down because it was perceived (incorrectly) as a threat from an incoming aircraft or missile.

Claimed .

They ****ed up and shot down a civilian airliner , they have lied all the way through this and still are ,

Oh It turned towards a sensitive military site ,oh it was a cruise missile ,the man who pressed the button said there was a fault ,the plane did this and then we did that but it's everyone's else's fault.

The truth matters yes

skallywag

Gatling wrote: »

The truth matters yes

Which truth? What more do you need?

It was perceived as a threat, in error, and was shot down.

Or do you think there is more to this?

tuxy

Gatling wrote: »

Claimed .

They ****ed up and shot down a civilian airliner , they have lied all the way through this and still are ,

Oh It turned towards a sensitive military site ,oh it was a cruise missile ,the man who pressed the button said there was a fault ,the plane did this and then we did that but it's everyone's else's fault.

The truth matters yes

The Iranian Commander of the Aerospace Force said in the video there was no pilot error and the plane did not deviate from course until it was hit. Blame was held entirely with the missile operator and by extension the Iranian Aerospace Force.
Has he released another statement today contradicting that?

Why can't they follow standard protocol like Russia and the US and just move on from this? Once they don't give out any medals to the missile operators for at least 5 years then it should work out ok as it always does.

cameramonkey

tuxy wrote: »

I think this incident is probably most similar to what happened to Iran Air Flight 655.

Can we expect Iran to be as professional about it as the US was back then?
Iran could take what the US did about it and use it as a guideline.

I think the professional approach wold be to admit and explain waht happened and then apologise. The US I believe never apologised for shooting down Flight 655. Do you think that is the right and professional response.

Boggles

tuxy wrote: »

Can we expect Iran to be as professional about it as the US was back then?

Medals for all involved?

Hopefully not.

tuxy

cameramonkey wrote: »

I think the professional approach wold be to admit and explain waht happened and then apologise. The US I believe never apologised for shooting down Flight 655. Do you think that is the right and professional response.

I do think it is the correct response however a precedent has been set by the US and other countries on situations very similar to this.
Iran has deviated from this by apologising and now there is unrest amongst their citizens.

Boggles wrote: »

Medals for all involved?

Hopefully not.

That's why I said they should wait before handing out the medals so as not to anger the international community.

Gatling

Boggles wrote: »

Medals for all involved?

First Iranians to shoot down an aircraft since the Iran /Iraq war .


It's quite possible.



What medals did the US navy give out