Flight 752 brought down by Iran - mod warning in |OP

notobtuse

Fonny122 wrote: »

You look forward to the day middle easterners express that they want the US to stop meddling in their affairs? Have you been living under a rock for 40 years or are you just being wilfully ignorant?

Oh, come on. You knew I was referring to US money. Or are you that obtuse? I'm fully aware they would say stop meddling in our affairs, but still show us the money!

Fonny122

notobtuse wrote: »

Oh, come on. You knew I was referring to US money. Or are you that obtuse? I'm fully aware they would say stop meddling in our affairs, but still show us the money!

Give them the choice of going back in time to undo all the damage the US has done, and in return not receive aid, and the overwhelming majority would go with that option. You know that, even if you won't admit it.

You might as well claim Ireland had no right to want independence as the British gave us some money and pretty buildings which we didn't uniformally turn down.

They would probably be a lot better off financially too, since they wouldn't be having their resources effectively stolen from them for so long either. Just like in Iran where the US and Brits overthrew the government for taking control of its own gas and oil... less than 20 years later, we had the Iranian Revolution.

notobtuse

Fonny122 wrote: »

Give them the choice of going back in time to undo all the damage the US has done, and in return not receive aid, and the overwhelming majority would go with that option. You know that, even if you won't admit it.

You might as well claim Ireland had no right to want independence as the British gave us some money and pretty buildings which we didn't uniformally turn down.

They would probably be a lot better off financially too, since they wouldn't be having their resources effectively stolen from them for so long either. Just like in Iran where the US and Brits overthrew the government for taking control of its own gas and oil... less than 20 years later, we had the Iranian Revolution.

Go back in time? That would apply to pretty much everything. Unfortunately life doesn't provide Mulligans.

Fonny122

notobtuse wrote: »

Go back in time? That would apply to pretty much everything. Unfortunately life doesn't provide Mulligans.

And that's the point, the US cannot (and given the hypothetical choice, would not) go back to return the stolen goods, nor do they seem to show any remorse for it - in no small part thanks to the toxic take many of them have of the 'American Exceptionalism' con elt they hold so dear. Which is why Iranians want them to stop meddling in their affairs by killing their national leaders in a terrorist manner on another nation soil, because we all know its not and never has been the Iranians best interests that the US have at heart.

Like I said, you already knew all of this which is why your initial response to my post was little more than reflexive and defensive virtue signalling on your end that failed to even pretend to attempt to address the point.

notobtuse

Fonny122 wrote: »

And that's the point, the US cannot (and given the hypothetical choice, would not) go back to return the stolen goods, nor do they seem to show any remorse for it - in no small part thanks to the toxic take many of them have of the 'American Exceptionalism' con elt they hold so dear. Which is why Iranians want them to stop meddling in their affairs by killing their national leaders in a terrorist manner on another nation soil, because we all know its not and never has been the Iranians best interests that the US have at heart.

Like I said, you already knew all of this which is why your initial response to my post was little more than reflexive and defensive virtue signalling on your end that failed to even pretend to attempt to address the point.

So nothing about their general's involvement with the death of some 600 American soldiers, I see.

Fonny122

Like I said, you already knew all of this which is why your initial response to my post was little more than reflexive and defensive virtue signalling on your end that failed to even pretend to attempt to address the point.

notobtuse wrote: »

So nothing about their general's involvement with the death of some 600 American soldiers, I see.

Actually I addressed that in the very first post you responded to, and it was part of my initial point that many of the people were likely marching in protest of US meddling in their affairs under the idea of American Exceptionalism than actively supporting this guy or mourning his death.

So once again, you already knew the answer to your own question but had nothing else and so just reverted to the usual reflexive and defensive virtue signalling rather than addressing the issue.

Thanks for continuously proving my point for me.

Timberrrrrrrr

notobtuse wrote: »

So nothing about their general's ALLEGED involvement with the death of some 600 American soldiers, I see.

Fixed that for you, the truth matters even if you don't think so.

MadYaker

Gatling wrote: »

Probably explains the supposed loss of contact earlier than claimed .
I do believe it was claimed 2 were fired at flights 752 ,I noticed on the damage especially the way the upper fuselage looks to have been separated from the rest of the aircraft,
I just hope all on board were already dead before the decent and impact

Unlikely as the plane was at a low altitude thus there would have been plenty of oxygen.

notobtuse

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Fixed that for you, the truth matters even if you don't think so.

I take it you think Hitler was only an alleged bad guy because he didn't sign any of orders to commit those terrible crimes.

Gatling

Iran's revolutionary guard arrested and detained the two people who videoed missiles hitting flight 752 ,
I'd imagine we may not see or hear from the two men (open to correction ) again ,

Timberrrrrrrr

notobtuse wrote: »

I take it you think Hitler was only an alleged bad guy because he didn't sign any of orders to commit those terrible crimes.

We have seen proof of Hitlers crimes, yet to see anything other than allegations by Trump for the alleged 600 deaths.

By the way, nice Godwin :rolleyes:

notobtuse

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

We have seen proof of Hitlers crimes, yet to see anything other than allegations by Trump for the alleged 600 deaths.

By the way, nice Godwin :rolleyes:

What proof? I don't think you will find any written proof linking him to the crimes. He made sure of it. Or is the kind of proof you're speaking of the same type as that Iranian general?

tuxy

Gatling wrote: »

Iran's revolutionary guard arrested and detained the two people who videoed missiles hitting flight 752 ,
I'd imagine we may not see or hear from the two men (open to correction ) again ,

What were their names so I can check up on it?

Timberrrrrrrr

notobtuse wrote: »

What proof? I don't think you will find any written proof linking him to the crimes. He made sure of it. Or is the kind of proof you're speaking of the same type as that Iranian general?

:rolleyes:

charlie14

notobtuse wrote: »

What proof? I don't think you will find any written proof linking him to the crimes. He made sure of it. Or is the kind of proof you're speaking of the same type as that Iranian general?

Speech by Adolf Hitler 31st. January 1939.
"Today I will once more be a prophet : If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, the the result will not be the bolshevisation of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe"


Adolf Hitler. Sports Plaza Berlin 30th January 1942.
"And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it will,namely wit the uprooting of the Aryans,but this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews"
Text as monitored by the Foreign Broadcast Monitoring Service.


Excerpts from the meeting between Adolf Hitler and the Mufti, Haj Amin Husseini 28th November 1941. Notes taken by Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt.


He (the Fuhrer) would carry on the fight until the last traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been obliterated.
As soon as this breakthrough was made, the Fuhrer would offer the Arab world his personal assurance that the hour of liberation had struck. Thereafter, Germany`s only remaining objective in the region would be limited to the annihilation of the Jews living under British protection in Arab lands

notobtuse

charlie14 wrote: »

Speech by Adolf Hitler 31st. January 1939.
"Today I will once more be a prophet : If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, the the result will not be the bolshevisation of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe"


Adolf Hitler. Sports Plaza Berlin 30th January 1942.
"And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it will,namely wit the uprooting of the Aryans,but this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews"
Text as monitored by the Foreign Broadcast Monitoring Service.


Excerpts from the meeting between Adolf Hitler and the Mufti, Haj Amin Husseini 28th November 1941. Notes taken by Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt.


He (the Fuhrer) would carry on the fight until the last traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been obliterated.
As soon as this breakthrough was made, the Fuhrer would offer the Arab world his personal assurance that the hour of liberation had struck. Thereafter, Germany`s only remaining objective in the region would be limited to the annihilation of the Jews living under British protection in Arab lands

But does any of that prove his direct involvement in the terrible crimes committed? I agree he is guilty of involvement, but I don't think any of that you posted is much different that the involvement in the attacks against US troops and civilians by Soleimani.

charlie14

notobtuse wrote: »

But does any of that prove his direct involvement in the terrible crimes committed? I agree he is guilty of involvement, but I don't think any of that you posted is much different that the involvement in the attacks against US troops and civilians by Soleimani.

I have posted transcripts of speeches he made plus notes taken at meeting where he made it plain his intention was the annihilation of all Jews in Europe and in the Arab world.
Where is your documented proof that Soleimani was involved in these attacks against US troops and civilians. ?

notobtuse

charlie14 wrote: »

I have posted transcripts of speeches he made plus notes taken at meeting where he made it plain his intention was the annihilation of all Jews in Europe and in the Arab world.
Where is your documented proof that Soleimani was involved in these attacks against US troops and civilians. ?

Enjoy reading...

https://ctc.usma.edu/qassem-soleimani-irans-unique-regional-strategy/

charlie14

notobtuse wrote: »

Enjoy reading...

https://ctc.usma.edu/qassem-soleimani-irans-unique-regional-strategy/

West Point. LOL.

notobtuse

charlie14 wrote: »

West Point. LOL.

Yes, one of the finest institutions there is!

charlie14

notobtuse wrote: »

Yes, one of the finest institutions there is!

So no independent documentation or verification.



Grand so.

notobtuse

charlie14 wrote: »

So no independent documentation or verification.



Grand so.

I've seen your type... You'll be asking for a pound of flesh and my first born next.

charlie14

notobtuse wrote: »

I've seen your type... You'll be asking for a pound of flesh and my first born next.

No, just independent documentation or verification of your claims.


I`ve seen your type as well unfortunately.



Swallows whatever the US military throws out and regurgitates without question.

notobtuse

charlie14 wrote: »

No, just independent documentation or verification of your claims.


I`ve seen your type as well unfortunately.



Swallows whatever the US military throws out and regurgitates without question.

Take the exceptional analysis and data gathering as evidence, or not... makes no never mind to me. Somehow I don't think you'd ever be satisfied. Now if MI6 decides to provide me with their classified intel, I'll be sure to pass it onto you. I'll tell them you asked. :rolleyes:

tuxy

Does the USMA have any history of being dishonest?

notobtuse

tuxy wrote: »

Does the USMA have any history of being dishonest?

They have a history of honesty and morality. That's what makes them the best in the world at what they do. But no one institution is completely perfect and there always are a few bad eggs.

Moral and ethical training

Class of '57 honor memorial on which the honor code is inscribed
Moral and ethical development occurs throughout the entirety of the cadet experience by living under the honor code and through formal leadership programs available at the academy. These include instruction in the values of the military profession through Professional Military Ethics Education (PME2), voluntary religious programs, interaction with staff and faculty role models, and an extensive guest-speaker program. The foundation of the ethical code at West Point is found in the academy's motto, "Duty, Honor, Country."

West Point's Cadet Honor Code reads simply that: "A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do." Cadets accused of violating the Honor Code face an investigative and hearing process. If they are found guilty by a jury of their peers, they face severe consequences ranging from being "turned back" (repeating an academic year) to separation from the academy.

charlie14

notobtuse wrote: »

Take the exceptional analysis and data gathering as evidence, or not... makes no never mind to me. Somehow I don't think you'd ever be satisfied. Now if MI6 decides to provide me with their classified intel, I'll be sure to pass it onto you. I'll tell them you asked. :rolleyes:

Would that be the same exceptional analysis and evidential data gathering by US and British intelligence that gave us the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction that 17 years later they have yet to find ?


If you are making claims based solely on either of those two sources, then I`m afraid after that little glitch, their credibility is very questionable.

notobtuse

charlie14 wrote: »

Would that be the same exceptional analysis and evidential data gathering by US and British intelligence that gave us the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction that 17 years later they have yet to find ?


If you are making claims based solely on either of those two sources, then I`m afraid after that little glitch, their credibility is very questionable.

Sorry to disappoint you amigo, but that wasn't West Point.

charlie14

notobtuse wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint you amigo, but that wasn't West Point.

You post up a link to a US Military Academy West Point puff piece on combating terrorism as verification for your claims, and you believe US military intelligence had nothing to do with it.


Are you really that naive or just an unquestioning believer of everything US intelligence services say.

Do you still believe they will find those WMDs in Iraq even after 17 years ?

Gatling

Maybe take the Hitler discussion to a WW2 thread