Flight 752 brought down by Iran - mod warning in |OP

alastair

Gatling wrote: »

Staged photographs from the Iranians ,

Why would they be interfering with the crash site before the international investigation team got there

Iran is lying about it's activities for the last few days (why would anyone believe anything they are currently saying)

Russia tried the same thing when they shotdown flight MH-17 , multiple delays followed multiple attempts at blocking and hampering the investigation ,

Won't expect anything but the same here

https://www.mehrnews.com/photo/4820004/سقوط-بوئینگ-۷۳۷-اوکراینی;

The ‘cover-up’ taking place under the eyes of the media.

Gatling

alastair wrote: »

https://www.mehrnews.com/photo/4820004/سقوط-بوئینگ-۷۳۷-اوکراینی[/url]

Iranian Islamic news


Won't be clicking on that I take it it's the Iranian sputnik or rt

charlie14

Gatling wrote: »

Most if not all air crash investigation teams are international due to the the different interested parties involved ,

What are staged photographs - propaganda Iran's leadership posts a few select images to allow the media to use to further their agenda , Iran's military and leadership have spent the last few days telling lie after lie which is apparently an apps fault (Microsoft translator) !!!

They are is protocol as to who is involved and a timeline.
Iran have followed this to the letter.


Do you know so little about aircraft accident or incident investigations under ICAO procedures that you somehow believe if there were staged photos it would make the slightest difference

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

No I said the Iranians publicly stated that they would not be sending the FDRs to Boeing,

I did say flight 752 was shotdown days ago

Boeing is an American corporation. Iran fears there be shenanigans!. They not restricting anyone from coming to Iran to inspect the crash site and black box That's a good sign for an open investigation. They are investigators from other countries going there, if Iran hiding something we know.

Gatling

charlie14 wrote: »

They are ,

under ICAO procedures that you somehow believe if there were staged photos it would make the slightest difference

Thought so .

Would driving bulldozers through a crash site along with removing parts of the aircraft before any Investigators could examine the site in detail,as well as document everything as it was at the impact site

Make a difference ?

Surely preservation of the scene is key in any investigation.?

alastair

Gatling wrote: »

Iranian Islamic news


Won't be clicking on that I take it it's the Iranian sputnik or rt

The remarkable gift of being able to discern a cover up while burying head in the sand.

charlie14

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Boeing is an American corporation. Iran fears there be shenanigans!. They not restricting anyone from coming to Iran to inspect the crash site and black box That's a good sign for an open investigation. They are investigators from other countries going there, if Iran hiding something we know.

The Iranian Aviation Authority have followed proper procedure to the letter.
Anyone here suggesting they have not does not know what they are talking about.

alastair

If that Tor missile is actually photographed in Tehran, then it might well be the case that the Iranian government is in the dark about it. The government is pretty much operating in parallel to a lot of a Revolutionary Guards activities, and it’s not unusual to find them at loggerheads. If a missile were launched in the belief there was US aircraft attacking, then someone would know pretty quickly, but not necessarily the executive there.

charlie14

Gatling wrote: »

Thought so .

Would driving bulldozers through a crash site along with removing parts of the aircraft before any Investigators could examine the site in detail,as well as document everything as it was at the impact site

Make a difference ?

Surely preservation of the scene is key in any investigation.?

You will learn very little from an aircraft crash site. Debris from a crash can be spread over miles.

The procedure is to gather everything you can as soon as possible to preserve it and move it to a secure location rather than leave it where anyone can walk in and take ghoulish souvenirs. Or even add items.
Naturally moving large pieces requires large machines such as bulldozers.

Btw. If you are genuine in asking questions on areas you know nothing about, repost the entire post you are referring to in your question.

alastair

Stop the presses! Another bulldozer ‘cover-up’ - this time involving the Ethiopian Airlines crash: https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/france-to-analyze-ethiopian-airlines-fli-idUSKCN1QU2T7

ChikiChiki

charlie14 wrote: »

The Iranian Aviation Authority have followed proper procedure to the letter.
Anyone here suggesting they have not does not know what they are talking about.

They have not. The site should have been cordoned off and preserved until all relevant investigating teams arrive.

Not invited in after debris has been moved.

charlie14

alastair wrote: »

If that Tor missile is actually photographed in Tehran, then it might well be the case that the Iranian government is in the dark about it. The government is pretty much operating in parallel to a lot of a Revolutionary Guards activities, and it’s not unusual to find them at loggerheads. If a missile were launched in the belief there was US aircraft attacking, then someone would know pretty quickly, but not necessarily the executive there.

What i find a bit strange about those rocket head pictures, at least those I have seen here, is that they are in isolation.
I would have thought if you were showing they were the cause you would include as much of the debris from the crash as possible.

tuxy

charlie14 wrote: »

What i find a bit strange about those rocket head pictures, at least those I have seen here, is that they are in isolation.
I would have thought if you were showing they were the cause you would include as much of the debris from the crash as possible.

The image is obviously cropped isn't it?

Gatling

charlie14 wrote: »

You will learn very little from an aircraft crash site.

Really,

Would have thought investigators learn an awful lot about a crash scene,in some spending weeks at a crash site and locating all wreckage even if it's spread over miles ,

Removing wreckage supposedly to preserve some evidence doesn't make sense at all ,

You examine the site thoroughly and locate all wreckage and document , photograph , video,take exact measurements first and foremost ,and then carefully remove any wreckage so not to damage any evidence or worse damage human remains .

alastair

charlie14 wrote: »

What i find a bit strange about those rocket head pictures, at least those I have seen here, is that they are in isolation.
I would have thought if you were showing they were the cause you would include as much of the debris from the crash as possible.

If it was a missile fired at the plane it’s likely to fall far from the plane though, unless it got lodged within the plane. That missile head doesn’t seem to have suffered much of an impact though - the fins are pretty much in one piece.

charlie14

ChikiChiki wrote: »

They have not. The site should have been cordoned off and preserved until all relevant investigating teams arrive.

Not invited in after debris has been moved.

I have explained already what the situation is for preserving evidence and why.
If, as some here are saying, that aircraft did come apart in mid-air then te debris field would be scattered over a wide area.
There is no way you can cordon that area off.
Even a break up at impact can scatter debris over a large area.

alastair

Gatling wrote: »

Really,

Would have thought investigators learn an awful lot about a crash scene,in some spending weeks at a crash site and locating all wreckage even if it's spread over miles ,

Removing wreckage supposedly to preserve some evidence doesn't make sense at all ,

You examine the site thoroughly and locate all wreckage and document , photograph , video,take exact measurements first and foremost ,and then carefully remove any wreckage so not to damage any evidence or worse damage human remains .

Graham Braithwaite said: “Where you have flight recorders that tell you what has happened you can move quickly to clearing the site. But if the recorders are damaged [as the Iranians have said] then all you have is the forensic evidence at the site to tell you the story.”

We now know that the black boxes are not damaged, so it would appear the site could be cleared quickly according to Graham Braithwaite, professor of safety and accident investigation at Cranfield University.

Gatling

alastair wrote: »

If it was a missile fired at the plane it’s likely to fall far from the plane though, unless it got lodged within the plane.

You don't know how anti aircraft missiles work .


They don't lodge or actually hit the aircraft it's not how they are designed to work

alastair

Gatling wrote: »

You don't know how anti aircraft missiles work .


They don't lodge or actually hit the aircraft it's not how they are designed to work

While you’re tripping over yourself there you fail to notice I said it wouldn’t fall near the plane - unless it got lodged.

charlie14

alastair wrote: »

If it was a missile fired at the plane it’s likely to fall far from the plane though, unless it got lodged within the plane. That missile head doesn’t seem to have suffered much of an impact though - the fins are pretty much in one piece.

Agreed on both.

Thought the same, but with some of the rubbish that has been posted here I didn`t see it leading to a genuine discussion.

alastair

charlie14 wrote: »

Agreed on both.

Thought the same, but with some of the rubbish that has been posted here I didn`t see it leading to a genuine discussion.

You were probably right.

Gatling

alastair wrote: »

If it was a missile fired at the plane it’s likely to fall far from the plane though, unless it got lodged within the plane. That missile head doesn’t seem to have suffered much of an impact though - the fins are pretty much in one piece.

alastair wrote: »

While you’re tripping over yourself there you fail to notice I said it wouldn’t fall near the plane - unless it got lodged.

That's what you said .

And no it would not get lodged because anti aircraft missiles don't actually hit an aircraft

charlie14

alastair wrote: »

We now know that the black boxes are not damaged, so it would appear the site could be cleared quickly according to Graham Braithwaite, professor of safety and accident investigation at Cranfield University.

Graham Braithwaite, what would he know with him only being a professor of safety and accident at Cranfield University.
I`m sure some of our resident experts here are much better qualified to speak on the matter:rolleyes:

Cheerful Spring2

News is coming in Iran/ Ukraine will announce tomo what caused the crash. It looks like they found the reason.

https://twitter.com/AbasAslani/status/1215706962396172289

Gatling

charlie14 wrote: »

Graham Braithwaite, what would

Has he physically examined and handled the FDR apparently he's not currently in Iran

pearcider

alastair wrote: »

The remarkable gift of being able to discern a cover up while burying head in the sand.

The only person burying his head in the sand constantly in here the past few days is you ayatollah Alastair!

Iran, the rogue state, murdered hundreds of their own people due to their incompetence and stupidity. Again.

alastair

Gatling wrote: »

That's what you said .

And no it would not get lodged because anti aircraft missiles don't actually hit an aircraft

Yes, that’s what I said. Well spotted. Now for a man who seemingly believes the Iranian missiles ‘missed’ the airbase, this might be a bit difficult to take on board, but an anti air missile exploding projects debris in all sorts of directions, including the possibility that big lumps might end up inside the plane. But that piece doesn’t look like it penetrated anything, hence it’s probably far from the plane debris.

alastair

Gatling wrote: »

Has he physically examined and handled the FDR apparently he's not currently in Iran

He’s merely an expert explaining what the standard process is.

alastair

pearcider wrote: »

The only person burying his head in the sand constantly in here the past few days is you ayatollah Alastair!

Iran, the rogue state, murdered hundreds of their own people due to their incompetence and stupidity. Again.

I guess you need a word with the Ethiopians then - who were also using bulldozers to move crash debris about.

Gatling

alastair wrote: »

but an anti air missile exploding projects debris in all sorts of directions, including the possibility that big lumps

No not really...


Google didn't tell ya ?