Abolish car tax

saabsaab

firstlight wrote: »

Should be a flat rate across the board
We pay enough tax at the pumps as it it
Whoever drives more pays more
Between overpriced car tax
Fuel
Insurance
I think the Irish motorist pays enough tax for the dunghole roads we use

Probably said before but there is no link between car tax and car use at present that must change and will soon.

colm_mcm

Sinn Fein will sort it out.

saabsaab

colm_mcm wrote: »

Sinn Fein will sort it out.

Whoever is in they will need the greens.

bazz26

And you know what happened the Greens the last time they got into bed with the devil.

teediddlyeye

saabsaab wrote: »

Probably said before but there is no link between car tax and car use at present that must change and will soon.

Unless you're somehow managing to buy duty free fuel you are already paying more tax the more you use.

saabsaab

teediddlyeye wrote: »

Unless you're somehow managing to buy duty free fuel you are already paying more tax the more you use.

Sorry, I don't understand.

colm_mcm

saabsaab wrote: »

Sorry, I don't understand.

There’s a huge amount of tax contained in the price of fuel. The more fuel you buy, the more tax you pay.

bazz26

saabsaab wrote: »

Sorry, I don't understand.

You really should do a bit of research.

Breakdown of tax on fuel:
https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/petrol-prices.aspx

Motor tax is an ownership tax. Fuel tax is a usage tax so the more fuel you use the more you pay tax on it.

saabsaab

saabsaab wrote: »

Green party with 10 seats now. It looks like there will be a 'Green' government whatever happens. Less reliance on fossil fuels hopefully.

Edit. 12 Seats at the end must now be in with any new government. A good time to increase fuel excise.

Wildly Boaring

colm_mcm wrote: »

Sinn Fein will sort it out.

They will alright.
They'll need to double it to get rid of property tax

saabsaab

As fuel prices are falling and about to fall further this is a good time to increase duty and reduce direct car tax.

Miscreant

saabsaab wrote: »

As fuel prices are falling and about to fall further this is a good time to increase duty and reduce direct car tax.

Or, and I think this is more likely, increase the duty and leave motor tax alone. The country is going to need money after all this pandemic calms down. Motor tax is going nowhere.

saabsaab

Miscreant wrote: »

Or, and I think this is more likely, increase the duty and leave motor tax alone. The country is going to need money after all this pandemic calms down. Motor tax is going nowhere.

Motor tax needs reform, too unwieldy, not properly related to use, two systems in place. The EU will have to release funds to cover the costs of the pandemic no single nation will be able to cover it through taxes alone.

Atlantic Dawn

I'd love to know the percentage of CC based cars on the road and the percentage of overall motor tax they pay. I would guess about 20% or less of the cars on the road and they contribute over 50% of the total motor tax take.

Wildly Boaring

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I'd love to know the percentage of CC based cars on the road and the percentage of overall motor tax they pay. I would guess about 20% or less of the cars on the road and they contribute over 50% of the total motor tax take.

The newest cc based is 13 years old!!
The old 1400cc and down were reasonable.

I'd say 10% of cars and 10% of tax

bazz26

saabsaab wrote: »

As fuel prices are falling and about to fall further this is a good time to increase duty and reduce direct car tax.

Recession and mass unemployment looming after this virus is done and you have the notion that motor tax is going to be reduced. You are either too bored of being locked up or your smoking something.

Your canvassing and posts here are entertaining though. Keep them going.

BorneTobyWilde

Are people taxing their cars now? If you had to choose food, lights, heat, or piece of paper for windscreen what would you choose, and would they expect people to tax a car in those circumstances. Just a question, not a situation .

Seve OB

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Are people taxing their cars now? If you had to choose food, lights, heat, or piece of paper for windscreen what would you choose, and would they expect people to tax a car in those circumstances. Just a question, not a situation .

if you want to drive a car on a public road you have to tax it

bazz26

The end of the world doesn't trump not taxing your car..... :pac:

galwaytt

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Are people taxing their cars now? If you had to choose food, lights, heat, or piece of paper for windscreen what would you choose, and would they expect people to tax a car in those circumstances. Just a question, not a situation .

..depends on whether you like walking or not.













After the court case, like

saabsaab

Don't tax you car and it will be taken off you.



I'm not saying that the money will be lost to Government but transferred to the fossil fuels with a small reg fee payable each year. Simpler, impossible to avoid and fairer.


Now is a good time as fuel prices fall.

BorneTobyWilde

galwaytt wrote: »

..depends on whether you like walking or not.













After the court case, like

So your saying if there was a person out there who had to choose between food and that magic piece of paper, they should die of hunger but with a taxed car. I think in current situation those people will choose to live rather than tax car

saabsaab

Your car wouldn't be taken from you if the system had it built in the fuel costs. Makes complete sense.

Seve OB

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

So your saying if there was a person out there who had to choose between food and that magic piece of paper, they should die of hunger but with a taxed car. I think in current situation those people will choose to live rather than tax car

nope. nobody said that. you are putting words into peoples mouths or whatever the internet equivalent is.

if you can't afford something, then you have to consider keeping it. you can't just think the law doesn't apply to you.

do you think these people should not have to pay their insurance also?

saabsaab

LIGHTNING wrote: »

:rolleyes: It already does. Lets not go down this again

It doesn't cover it in the way it could be. No good reason to have complicated multiple systems.

bazz26

Yawn.

snoopboggybog

saabsaab wrote: »

In the context of an upcoming GE if a party was to include this on a manifesto would there be support?


Abolish car tax replace it with a flat registration yearly fee say 50 p.a. then transfer the shortfall onto fossil fuels at the pump. Much fairer the more you burn the more you pay. Overall there would be no loss to the exchequer. Could also apply to electricity. Much greener policy too..


Poll attached

This would be extremely unfair on the people who have to commute four hours a day to work in Dublin and loads of other people who have to commute around the country for their job.

The tax is not that bad in this Country anyway at this stage in time.

Bruthal

Seve OB wrote: »

you can't just think the law doesn't apply to you.

Ever break any yourself?

Seve OB

Bruthal wrote: »

Ever break any yourself?

Possibly but never intentionally.
I can honestly say I’ve never driven without tax or insurance.

saabsaab

snoopboggybog wrote: »

This would be extremely unfair on the people who have to commute four hours a day to work in Dublin and loads of other people who have to commute around the country for their job.

The tax is not that bad in this Country anyway at this stage in time.

What is unreasonable is living so far from your work. Perhaps with online less people will need to commute. Non fossil fuel transport is here and coming too so nobody is locked into it anyway


The present system(s) is daft as it is, even if not too bad for many. Just so easy to put it totally on the fuel!

Charles Babbage

Car tax should be increased, additional revenue is needed after this recession.

bazz26

saabsaab wrote: »

What is unreasonable is living so far from your work. Perhaps with online less people will need to commute. Non fossil fuel transport is here and coming too so nobody is locked into it anyway


The present system(s) is daft as it is, even if not too bad for many. Just so easy to put it totally on the fuel!

You are a bit detached from reality. People have to commute long distances because they cannot afford to own property or rent in large urban areas near where they work. But I'm going to guess that you probably don't have much use for a car so think everyone should be in the same boat. You make it sound like it's a lifestyle choice for many, it's not.

Also as has been explained to you a good few times in this thead with links yet you seem to conveniently ignore or refuse to acknowledge, various forms of tax are already included in the cost of fuel i.e. VAT, excise duty, etc. +60% of every litre of fuel you buy is tax alone. So the those who drive further spend more on fuel and thus pay more tax on it. Also motor tax is an ownership tax and has been for many years so they tax you for owning a vehicle as well as using it. They won't simply switch one over to the other as you see to think.

Of course I expect this will probably be ignored completely again.

saabsaab

bazz26 wrote: »

You are a bit detached from reality. People have to commute long distances because they cannot afford to own property or rent in large urban areas near where they work. But I'm going to guess that you probably don't have much use for a car so think everyone should be in the same boat. You make it sound like it's a lifestyle choice for many, it's not.

Also as has been explained to you a good few times in this thead with links yet you seem to conveniently ignore or refuse to acknowledge, various forms of tax are already included in the cost of fuel i.e. VAT, excise duty, etc. +60% of every litre of fuel you buy is tax alone. So the those who drive further spend more on fuel and thus pay more tax on it. Also motor tax is an ownership tax and has been for many years so they tax you for owning a vehicle as well as using it. They won't simply switch one over to the other as you see to think.

Of course I expect this will probably be ignored completely again.

Many travel by other means to work already. Those that can't can also use non fossil fuels. I don't see the point in having an ownership tax separate from the fuel tax what use is it? I believe that they will switch over to a new system sooner that you may think. Those that use fossil fuels and the roads more pay more much fairer.

Caquas

Now that we’re confined to the house and a 2 km. radius, any chance of a refund on motor tax while my car is sitting in our driveway? At the very least, we should get credit for these weeks (months?) when we renew our tax discs.

Mind you, to judge by the number of cars that passed while I was taking my daily exercise today, loads of people have essential work requiring use of their car. And I did take the car for the weekly shop on Saturday (but nothing since). Still, my point remains: give credit to law-abiding motorists.

saabsaab

Caquas wrote: »

Now that we’re confined to the house and a 2 km. radius, any chance of a refund on motor tax while my car is sitting in our driveway? At the very least, we should get credit for these weeks (months?) when we renew our tax discs.

Mind you, to judge by the number of cars that passed while I was taking my daily exercise today, loads of people have essential work requiring use of their car. And I did take the car for the weekly shop on Saturday (but nothing since). Still, my point remains: give credit to law-abiding motorists.

Very hard to determine who would be due a refund, many need it for shopping etc. betterto just abolish it and put it on the reduced fuel costs.

snoopboggybog

saabsaab wrote: »

Many travel by other means to work already. Those that can't can also use non fossil fuels. I don't see the point in having an ownership tax separate from the fuel tax what use is it? I believe that they will switch over to a new system sooner that you may think. Those that use fossil fuels and the roads more pay more much fairer.

So basically you want people who have to commute long distances to work to pay your car tax for you?

You should get tax breaks on fuel not bloody been charged more.

Most workers in Ireland have no choice but to drive to work as public transport is so crap.

Everyone doesn't work in Dublin where there is good public transport. It's basically non existant in most of Ireland.

Tax on cars over 08 isn't even bad.

pablo128

If northern Ireland doesn't also adopt the system, it won't work. Who in their right mind who lives anywhere near the border wouldn't go and fill their tanks there. And do a weeks shopping too so the journey isn't wasted, taking even more revenue from the state.

Seweryn

pablo128 wrote: »

If northern Ireland doesn't also adopt the system, it won't work. Who in their right mind who lives anywhere near the border wouldn't go and fill their tanks there. And do a weeks shopping too so the journey isn't wasted, taking even more revenue from the state.

Why would that be a problem? Surely, all Europe and the rest of the World has country borders with different fuel prices between countries.

Henry Ford III

It's pretty obvious that those wishing to pay less are driving this thread.

So the low milers, urban drivers, and those who have older bigger engined cars will all want a change to a fuel based tax.

To them I say tough luck.

saabsaab

snoopboggybog wrote: »

So basically you want people who have to commute long distances to work to pay your car tax for you?

You should get tax breaks on fuel not bloody been charged more.

Most workers in Ireland have no choice but to drive to work as public transport is so crap.

Everyone doesn't work in Dublin where there is good public transport. It's basically non existant in most of Ireland.

Tax on cars over 08 isn't even bad.

No. Even they won't be paying a tax that no longer exists! the polluter pays principle. As I said they can convert to another greener or non fossil fuel nobody has the same car forever!

In fact you could turn your argument on its head and say that those who do less mileage are paying extra for those who travel more.

Dravokivich

saabsaab wrote: »

No. Even they won't be paying a tax that no longer exists! the polluter pays principle. As I said they can convert to another greener or non fossil fuel nobody has the same car forever!

In fact you could turn your argument on its head and say that those who do less mileage are paying extra for those who travel more.

If you want to incentivise someone to take the action you require, punishment is not the means to stop them from doing what you dont want.

saabsaab

Dravokivich wrote: »

If you want to incentivise someone to take the action you require, punishment is not the means to stop them from doing what you dont want.

It is, financial penalties are always effective. It wouldn't be just on its own some carrot too like no car tax!

bazz26

saabsaab wrote: »

No. Even they won't be paying a tax that no longer exists! the polluter pays principle. As I said they can convert to another greener or non fossil fuel nobody has the same car forever!

In fact you could turn your argument on its head and say that those who do less mileage are paying extra for those who travel more.

Again, motor tax is an ownership tax and fuel tax is a usage tax. You pay motor tax because you own the car, not because of how far you drive it. Those who drive more are already paying more at the pump on top of their ownership tax in the more you drive the more fuel you have to buy.

Your notion of those who drive more should shoulder your ownership tax in the name of the polluter pays, is a ridiculous argument. If you want to own a car then be prepared to pay the ownership tax that comes with it. Similarly you have to pay the usage tax as you use it on top of that. What next, you want to stick the VRT onto the price of fuel too?

saabsaab

bazz26 wrote: »

Again, motor tax is an ownership tax and fuel tax is a usage tax. You pay motor tax because you own the car, not because of how far you drive it. Those who drive more are already paying more at the pump on top of their ownership tax in the more you drive the more fuel you have to buy.

Your notion of those who drive more should shoulder your ownership tax in the name of the polluter pays, is a ridiculous argument. If you want to own a car then be prepared to pay the ownership tax that comes with it. Similarly you have to pay the usage tax as you use it on top of that. What next, you want to stick the VRT onto the price of fuel too?

Ownership tax is that a sacred cow? Why should there be one? Does it apply to washing machines, fridges clothes?

The polluter pays more this way and that is the best means to get change.

pablo128

saabsaab wrote: »

Ownership tax is that a sacred cow? Why should there be one? Does it apply to washing machines, fridges clothes?

The polluter pays more this way and that is the best means to get change.

You don't get it. The polluter pays more anyway than someone less polluting.

How much is your car tax per year currently?

saabsaab

pablo128 wrote: »

You don't get it. The polluter pays more anyway than someone less polluting.

How much is your car tax per year currently?

The polluter would pay more, as it should be. My car tax isn't relevant to the discussion.

tcawley29

bazz26 wrote: »

Again, motor tax is an ownership tax and fuel tax is a usage tax.

I disagree. If you plan on not using the car you can declare it off the road in advance. If you did that you can still own the car and not pay tax as it's not being used.

pablo128

saabsaab wrote: »

The polluter would pay more, as it should be. My car tax isn't relevant to the discussion.

What you're proposing is already the case.

And yes your car tax is relevant to the discussion seeing as you want it abolished. I was going to work out how much extra should go on a litre of diesel, using your road tax and an average mpg and average KMS per year, and see do you agree with that figure.

Bruthal

tcawley29 wrote: »

I disagree. If you plan on not using the car you can declare it off the road in advance. If you did that you can still own the car and not pay tax as it's not being used.

You can look at it in all sorts of ways.

They way I see it, its a way of getting some tax off owners who only drive 1 mile a day to the shop.

So the more you drive, the more you pay, but if you hardly drive, you still pay a flat rate.

saabsaab

pablo128 wrote: »

What you're proposing is already the case.

And yes your car tax is relevant to the discussion seeing as you want it abolished. I was going to work out how much extra should go on a litre of diesel, using your road tax and an average mpg and average KMS per year, and see do you agree with that figure.

It is already the case but with this change it would be even more so.
I don't see my personal situation is relevant to a general discussion and I won't be giving my details. I already think that we are talking about 20 cent per litre extra. Fuel prices are falling now so it is the right time to do it.