Abolish car tax

bazz26

saabsaab wrote: »

Ownership tax is that a sacred cow? Why should there be one? Does it apply to washing machines, fridges clothes?

The polluter pays more this way and that is the best means to get change.

Your going off on a tangent now debating what is and what isn't ownership with your silly examples. The fact is that motor tax is tax on ownership of a motor vehicle whether you like or agree with it. Just because it doesn't suit your circumstances doesn't mean it should be shifted onto those who already pay for their usage.

The polluter is already paying more, the more they fill up with fuel, the more tax they pay on that fuel.

saabsaab wrote: »

It is already the case but with this change it would be even more so.
I don't see my personal situation is relevant to a general discussion and I won't be giving my details. I already think that we are talking about 20 cent per litre extra. Fuel prices are falling now so it is the right time to do it.

Of course your personal situation is relevant, your canvassing this thread here because of your person situation. It's clear you don't do much mileage. I bet if you were driving more you wouldn't be going on about moving it the fuel.

Maybe focus on finding an alternative mode of transport for yourself if you cannot justify paying motor tax after all you suggested it earlier in this thread.

saabsaab

No point in being personal about this it is a general topic of interest to many people. I haven't asked anyone about their personal situation and won't why should you?


The proposal is relevant to the environment and wise regulation of government on its own merits. This would be a better way for all ultimately.

snoopboggybog

saabsaab wrote: »

No point in being personal about this it is a general topic of interest to many people. I haven't asked anyone about their personal situation and won't why should you?


The proposal is relevant to the environment and wise regulation of government on its own merits. This would be a better way for all ultimately.

Let me guess you drive some 07 BMW/AUDI/Lexus/SAAB and your tax is around 1200 euro a year?

Am I far off? Your hardly giving out about 200 or 300 euro a year.

With regards the piece in Bold people have no choice but to drive as the public transport is so crap outside of Dublin. Why tax something they cannot solve.

Also if your so inclined about people buying electric cars then why not buy one yourself. Most economical ones won't do the mileage a large portion of the population need.

Xertz

You immediately get into a problem of geographical equity. Ireland's an incredibly scattered population by any standards, and dependent on car trips for commutes.

While I agree we should be placing the burden on the polluter paying i.e. a tax on fuel makes sense, it would massively burden those on long commutes, certainly without a huge switch to EVs, which is probably still a while away due to technology not being quite mature enough yet either in terms of the cars or the grid. I've no doubt that it will be where we go eventually, but it's not happening as quickly as some would have hoped.

The Motor Tax approach spreads that burden around while still having a fairly strong environmental impact through the emissions loading.

In terms of population spread, we are where we are. We can't really undo 50+ years of bad planning. However, we could probably be doing a lot more to prepare for serious EV usage in the coming years, as it will ultimately be how we reduce the carbon footprint of transport here.
Obviously, public transport has a big role too, but it's not going to be a magic bullet in Ireland given the spread of population.

bazz26

saabsaab wrote: »

No point in being personal about this it is a general topic of interest to many people. I haven't asked anyone about their personal situation and won't why should you?


The proposal is relevant to the environment and wise regulation of government on its own merits. This would be a better way for all ultimately.

Ah the real agenda surfaces. A member or supporter of the Green party perhaps? Just remember what those clowns did back in 2008 when they fiddled with motor tax for the good of the environment.

saabsaab

What is relevant is what is the best way to administer tax and reduce pollution in the country. This applies to everyone commuters or those who have a Rolls and use it once a week to the shops. Our current daft system(s) is/are complex and makes no sense.

Henry Ford III

saabsaab wrote: »

What is relevant is what is the best way to administer tax and reduce pollution in the country. This applies to everyone commuters or those who have a Rolls and use it once a week to the shops. Our current daft system(s) is/are complex and makes no sense.

There's no requirement for any system of tax to be simple or make sense.

It doesn't even have to be fair.

JustAThought

Henry Ford III wrote: »

There's no requirement for any system of tax to be simple or make sense.

It doesn't even have to be fair.

Just as well as its neither.

saabsaab

Taxes should be proportionate and as simple as possible. I don't get the hate for the Greens we are heading into a greener future and best adapt to it. The current crisis offers opportunities to do both of the above and makes the increase a small inconvenience in comparison to the costs of the crisis.

saabsaab

As most aren't commuting anymore and many will probably stay working from home after this crisis is over, due to new distancing requirements in offices this is the time to introduce such a system. I am sure most would be in favour if put to them.

pablo128

saabsaab wrote: »

As most aren't commuting anymore and many will probably stay working from home after this crisis is over, due to new distancing requirements in offices this is the time to introduce such a system. I am sure most would be in favour if put to them.

@20 cent a litre I doubt you'll get many takers. You realise that's 12 euro a tank extra for most cars? 12 x 52 = 624 . Let's say 600 a year extra when the road tax on most yokes now is 270 ish.
My car is 710 a year to tax and I do low mileage and I still think it's not workable.

bazz26

saabsaab wrote: »

As most aren't commuting anymore and many will probably stay working from home after this crisis is over, due to new distancing requirements in offices this is the time to introduce such a system. I am sure most would be in favour if put to them.

Your argument for is getting desperate now.

saabsaab

bazz26 wrote: »

Your argument for is getting desperate now.

At least I have an argument that makes sense. The present system(s) don't. I know it won't suit everyone but it makes more and more sense as we head into a greener future.

Idbatterim

allowing virtually all new cars, to pay a pittance in tax, is absolute idiocy of the highest order!

bazz26

As long as your ok Jack...

saabsaab

pablo128 wrote: »

@20 cent a litre I doubt you'll get many takers. You realise that's 12 euro a tank extra for most cars? 12 x 52 = 624 . Let's say 600 a year extra when the road tax on most yokes now is 270 ish.
My car is 710 a year to tax and I do low mileage and I still think it's not workable.

There was a poll on this thread that showed most in favour. Your figure is based on using a full tank each week many wouldn't use that much. Anyway it isn't a personal thing for you or me but the best way overall.

saabsaab

Idbatterim wrote: »

allowing virtually all new cars, to pay a pittance in tax, is absolute idiocy of the highest order!

True! best move it to fossil fuels.

snoopboggybog

saabsaab wrote: »

There was a poll on this thread that showed most in favour. Your figure is based on using a full tank each week many wouldn't use that much. Anyway it isn't a personal thing for you or me but the best way overall.

Most that would agree are in Dublin where the jobs are and has decent public transport with the Dart, Luas and Dublin Bus.

I don't think the other 25 counties would agree whatsoever.

If your such a green head answer this question? Did you give up your own car to save the enviroment?

We are allready taxed on petrol and Diesel hugely allready. An extra 20C is just taking more money out of people's pocket and will not help sove the issue of carbon emissions whatsoever.

You just want free car tax.

pablo128

saabsaab wrote: »

There was a poll on this thread that showed most in favour. Your figure is based on using a full tank each week many wouldn't use that much. Anyway it isn't a personal thing for you or me but the best way overall.

That poll would change very quickly once people realised how much it would cost them.

Idbatterim

snoopboggybog wrote: »

Most that would agree are in Dublin where the jobs are and has decent public transport with the Dart, Luas and Dublin Bus.

I don't think the other 25 counties would agree whatsoever.

If your such a green head answer this question? Did you give up your own car to save the enviroment?

We are allready taxed on petrol and Diesel hugely allready. An extra 20C is just taking more money out of people's pocket and will not help sove the issue of carbon emissions whatsoever.

You just want free car tax.

what percentage of the population are near luas or dart? Dublins transport is absolutely woeful!

snoopboggybog

Idbatterim wrote: »

what percentage of the population are near luas or dart? Dublins transport is absolutely woeful!

At least they have some sort public transport, most other counties don't.

Also they are a lot closer to work, not like a lot of people commuting from Kilkenny, Carlow, Wexford, Tipp etc. as they have no choice in the matter.

saabsaab

pablo128 wrote: »

That poll would change very quickly once people realised how much it would cost them.

I don't think so. Most of the arguments were trotted out before it closed. You can set up a new poll here if you want to.

pablo128

saabsaab wrote: »

I don't think so. Most of the arguments were trotted out before it closed. You can set up a new poll here if you want to.

You haven't answered the other poster whether you've given up your diesel car to save the planet. Have you given it up?

saabsaab

pablo128 wrote: »

You haven't answered the other poster whether you've given up your diesel car to save the planet. Have you given it up?

My personal situation or yours doesn't matter. Keep to the topic.
Any chance you want to set up a new poll?

snoopboggybog

saabsaab wrote: »

I don't think so. Most of the arguments were trotted out before it closed. You can set up a new poll here if you want to.

It's never ever going to happen anyway so no point in arguing about it.

Car tax is fair at the moment and thank feck it is and we are in line with the average EU price of petrol.

If you really want to make a difference email Donald Trump. They have 290 million registered vehicles on the road and petrol is only around 52C a liter. Car registration fee is around 250 dollars a year on average.

I still think you just want car tax abolished for your own benefit for your pre-2008 car but each to their own really.
Going by your old posts your fond of classic cars which are brutal for the enviroment. HOW DARE YOU! Has Gretta not thought you anything?

pablo128

saabsaab wrote: »

My personal situation or yours doesn't matter. Keep to the topic.

You started the thread about abolishing car tax but won't tell us how much you currently pay.

You say it's for the good of the environment, polluter pays etc but you drive a diesel car with no indication of giving it up.

Get up the yard. You just want free tax.

Tenzor07

Have only read a few pages of this debate..

However, with the current crisis and level of government borrowing, I would expect taxes to rise next year, income, Vat and Motor tax....

saabsaab

pablo128 wrote: »

You started the thread about abolishing car tax but won't tell us how much you currently pay.

You say it's for the good of the environment, polluter pays etc but you drive a diesel car with no indication of giving it up.

Get up the yard. You just want free tax.

It's not about me!

You don't know my situation and you won't so stop fishing.


It's not free if it is added to the fossil fuel.

saabsaab

snoopboggybog wrote: »

It's never ever going to happen anyway so no point in arguing about it.

Car tax is fair at the moment and thank feck it is and we are in line with the average EU price of petrol.

If you really want to make a difference email Donald Trump. They have 290 million registered vehicles on the road and petrol is only around 52C a liter. Car registration fee is around 250 dollars a year on average.

I still think you just want car tax abolished for your own benefit for your pre-2008 car but each to their own really.
Going by your old posts your fond of classic cars which are brutal for the enviroment. HOW DARE YOU! Has Gretta not thought you anything?

Stop fishing. There is no tax on classic cars as it is!

tuxy

If car tax is fair why does my old 1.3 petrol cost twice as much to tax as my friends new 3.0 diesel?

I guess it's because I haven't paid a large VRT bill recently?

Heres Johnny

pablo128 wrote: »

@20 cent a litre I doubt you'll get many takers. You realise that's 12 euro a tank extra for most cars? 12 x 52 = 624 . Let's say 600 a year extra when the road tax on most yokes now is 270 ish.
My car is 710 a year to tax and I do low mileage and I still think it's not workable.

Reading your post made me think of how much this would cost a motorist. Flat 20c on a litre makes sense but I don't think most people use a tank a week.
Cut that in half for a reasonable estimate of what drivers do and you're at 300 euro a year which is ballpark where most car tax is nowadays.
You drive more, you pay more. Can't think of any fairer way and would lose the need to have an administration team taxing cars and gardai enforcing it.
I'd happily exchange my 280 car tax for the same increase in fuel costs.

saabsaab

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Reading your post made me think of how much this would cost a motorist. Flat 20c on a litre makes sense but I don't think most people use a tank a week.
Cut that in half for a reasonable estimate of what drivers do and you're at 300 euro a year which is ballpark where most car tax is nowadays.
You drive more, you pay more. Can't think of any fairer way and would lose the need to have an administration team taxing cars and gardai enforcing it.
I'd happily exchange my 280 car tax for the same increase in fuel costs.

True enough any system will have winners and losers but this is fairer, greener and simpler.

snoopboggybog

saabsaab wrote: »

Stop fishing. There is no tax on classic cars as it is!

I'm not talking about tax, I'm talking about the environment.

snoopboggybog

tuxy wrote: »

If car tax is fair why does my old 1.3 petrol cost twice as much to tax as my friends new 3.0 diesel?

I guess it's because I haven't paid a large VRT bill recently?

The whole pre 08 car thing is a completely different topic really. Should be brought in line with newer cars.

pablo128

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Reading your post made me think of how much this would cost a motorist. Flat 20c on a litre makes sense but I don't think most people use a tank a week.
Cut that in half for a reasonable estimate of what drivers do and you're at 300 euro a year which is ballpark where most car tax is nowadays.
You drive more, you pay more. Can't think of any fairer way and would lose the need to have an administration team taxing cars and gardai enforcing it.
I'd happily exchange my 280 car tax for the same increase in fuel costs.

I'd imagine the same team that administrates the tax would be responsible for administrating the additional flat fee proposed by the OP in his first post.

saabsaab

pablo128 wrote: »

I'd imagine the same team that administrates the tax would be responsible for administrating the additional flat fee proposed by the OP in his first post.

Not really, few are needed for that, as this way is much simpler. The fuel excise system is there already, just change the rate at the pumps!

bazz26

Idbatterim wrote: »

what percentage of the population are near luas or dart? Dublins transport is absolutely woeful!

I smile when I hear the Dubs complaining about their public transport. Come outside the big smoke and see what woeful transport is really like.

saabsaab wrote: »

My personal situation or yours doesn't matter. Keep to the topic.
Any chance you want to set up a new poll?

Why are you so afraid to give any details about what you are driving or how much it costs to tax? Does it weaken your argument so much, maybe make you out to be bit of a hypocrite or give away your vested interest?

FWIW I drive a 3.0 litre diesel and I do about 25k km a year. I actually thank the Green Party as if it weren't for them I'd be paying €1500 instead of €390 in motor tax.

babi-hrse

AlfaZen wrote: »

Except they are pushing people away from fossil fuels so it would be a diminishing return over the next 10/20 years. This coupled with less spent on servicing (VAT) with EVs and the Government will be faced with a sizable hole in the take from Motorists. Watch them dream up new taxes the ensure the cost of owning a car EV or otherwise continues to get more expensive every year.

Early adopters may be saving now but that will change once the rest of us plebs are forced to move to EVs (if we can afford to).

The ev battery annual recycle tax

martyc5674

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Reading your post made me think of how much this would cost a motorist. Flat 20c on a litre makes sense but I don't think most people use a tank a week.
Cut that in half for a reasonable estimate of what drivers do and you're at 300 euro a year which is ballpark where most car tax is nowadays.
You drive more, you pay more. Can't think of any fairer way and would lose the need to have an administration team taxing cars and gardai enforcing it.
I'd happily exchange my 280 car tax for the same increase in fuel costs.

While it might net the same amount of tax and seem fairer on the surface - what it won’t do is discourage personal car ownership which has become almost and entitlement in this country. And our personal car ownership obsession makes it too easy to bother with public transport- which in turn is pretty crap for the environment.
Think of motor tax as a subscription that comes with car ownership and it puts you off the idea a little.
It also won’t steer you in the direction of a car that pollutes less per km when it comes to changing the car.

antodeco

saabsaab wrote: »

Stop fishing. There is no tax on classic cars as it is!

Then who the hell have I been paying all these years for my classic and vintage cars?

saabsaab

bazz26 wrote: »

I smile when I hear the Dubs complaining about their public transport. Come outside the big smoke and see what woeful transport is really like.



Why are you so afraid to give any details about what you are driving or how much it costs to tax? Does it weaken your argument so much, maybe make you out to be bit of a hypocrite or give away your vested interest?

FWIW I drive a 3.0 litre diesel and I do about 25k km a year. I actually thank the Green Party as if it weren't for them I'd be paying €1500 instead of €390 in motor tax.

What I drive or not is irrelevant to the argument. As I said before stop fishing this isn't personal.

saabsaab

antodeco wrote: »

Then who the hell have I been paying all these years for my classic and vintage cars?

Correction the flat rate tax on classics is 56 euro, unlike 'normal' tax it doesn't matter if it's a Rolls or a Mini

saabsaab

'It also won’t steer you in the direction of a car that pollutes less per km when it comes to changing the car'



Unless you are rich why wouldn't it? The more fuel a car uses the more it pollutes. The higher the cost of fuel the more the incentive to choose a car that uses less.

snoopboggybog

saabsaab wrote: »

'It also won’t steer you in the direction of a car that pollutes less per km when it comes to changing the car'



Unless you are rich why wouldn't it? The more fuel a car uses the more it pollutes. The higher the cost of fuel the more the incentive to choose a car that uses less.

What are you driving, a 1ltr Micra?

biko

Thread has gone from bad to worse