Leinster vs. Lyon, Sunday 12th January, 13.00 (BT2)

ongarite

Should have taken the kick before TMO called it.

fullstop

Correct call.

awec

Definitely a knock on

Burkie1203

TMO sees that but says nothing about the headlock on Tracy just before that

Squidgy Black

Absolutely no idea how the TMO can even attempt to say it was clear a Leinster player knocked that on

Larbre34

I was a fan of the TMO. I'm not any more, its ruining the game, it should be restricted to groundings again.

If I were Fardy there I'd have walked the team off the pitch.

PhlegmyMoses

awec wrote: »

Definitely a knock on

I honestly don't know how anybody can say that confidently.

mangobob

awec wrote: »

Definitely a knock on

I need to go to specsavers then because I saw nothing remotely definite, nor did the ref.

Anywho...

pickarooney

Absolute nonsense. Get the ref off the field if he's not going to make a decision on what he sees himself.

"Ball would have gone forward" - what law is that?

Clegg

Dave
For
Ireland

Squidgy Black

Surely must be a yellow here shortly, every time we're inside the 22 there's been two or more penalty advantages

Larbre34

Why didn't the ref tell the TMO to eff off, he wasn't one bit convinced himself??!!

awec

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I honestly don't know how anybody can say that confidently.

Tracy dropped it into a red arm. Knock on.

Neil3030

I'm absolutely fine with a TMO standing up to a ref like that and wish more would do it.

thegreycity

TMO said it would have gone forward were it not for the red arm. So it didn't go forward.

pickarooney

awec wrote: »

Tracy dropped it into a red arm. Knock on.

If he did, and the ref sees that, no problem at all. But then the ref can't see it after repeated replays he can't let someone overrule him.

Larbre34

Leo the Lion does a Starsky and Hutch. Lol.

Larbre34

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'm absolutely fine with a TMO standing up to a ref like that and wish more would do it.

The Ref is the senior official, the boss, the one who carries the can for all decisions, end of.

Hurrache

Larbre34 wrote: »

Why didn't the ref tell the TMO to eff off, he wasn't one bit convinced himself??!!

I suppose you have to trust your officials. TMO was insistent that he could see it, albeit the only one it seems who could. His justification was a bit bizzare, would have gone forward if it hadn't been stopped going forward by someone else.

Neil3030

Larbre34 wrote: »

The Ref is the senior official, the boss, the one who carries the can for all decisions, end of.

TMO has an exponentially better viewpoint. Ref trusted him to have made the correct call. More should do this.

Larbre34

Neil3030 wrote: »

TMO has an exponentially better viewpoint. Ref trusted him to have made the correct call. More should do this.

He took quite a bit of convincing, which is not credible as a system.

If the TMO makes a wrong call, and lets be clear here, he was judging the Fardy handling on the ground, not Tracy, the Ref carries the can in the post match review as senior official.

If the Refs instinct is to overrule the TMO, then he should retain the right to do so.

troyzer

Fair play to Lyon. They've shown up.

Clegg

Strange game

Lyon have done nothing all first half yet are just 7 points behind.

Larbre34

This is all good, we need to be challenged in games, no point winning 20 odd games on the trot and coming unstuck in the QFs as we haven't had a decent game.

Waesfjord

have to wonder why McGrath kicked away possession at the very start of that phase of play by Lyons as they had the extra man?

awec

Ross Byrne has not been good.

Faugheen

Dave for Ireland

mangobob

Neil3030 wrote: »

TMO has an exponentially better viewpoint. Ref trusted him to have made the correct call. More should do this.

Hardly exponentially. He could not show anything to the ref to back up what he was saying. Even his rationale was puzzling - didnt "actually" go forward but "would have".

Ref is the final authority. Its up to him, not the TMO to make the call. In this case ref could not see it and neither could could the linesman watching beside him even after multiple replays. Just a bizarre call imo.

On another note, I dont think I have ever seen a scoreline that less reflects whats happening on the field.

Neil3030

Larbre34 wrote: »

He took quite a bit of convincing, which is not credible as a system.

If the TMO makes a wrong call, and lets be clear here, he was judging the Fardy handling on the ground, not Tracy, the Ref carries the can in the post match review as senior official.

If the Refs instinct is to overrule the TMO, then he should retain the right to do so.

And all too often the TMOs initially argue against the referee but back down.

RobbieRuns

Ross Byrne ,,,,,, weak link in the juggernaut

Hurrache

I did catch Keith Wood on Newstalk for the beginning of the match and he was complaining about the length of time it took for the TMO to get in touch with the ref over a previous thing he noted, I imagine he was spitting for the knock on interruption.

pickarooney

Neil3030 wrote: »

TMO has an exponentially better viewpoint. Ref trusted him to have made the correct call. More should do this.

If the tmo is not seeing the exact same thing as the ref and the spectators then what's the point? The TMO system is supposed to be fair and transparent but if it's based on something only one person has access to it completely undermines that.

PhlegmyMoses

Weird game for Leinster. Could easily be 3 or 4 more tries to the good but look a bit ropey in defence.

Neil3030

mangobob wrote: »

Hardly exponentially. He could not show anything to the ref to back up what he was saying. Even his rationale was puzzling - didnt "actually" go forward but "would have".

Ref is the final authority. Its up to him, not the TMO to make the call. In this case ref could not see it and neither could could the linesman watching beside him even after multiple replays. Just a bizarre call imo.

On another note, I dont think I have ever seen a scoreline that less reflects whats happening on the field.

Why are people saying the TMO made the call?

Whitehouse asked him if he was sure, trusted this, and made the final call.

Decision before ego, good refereeing.

mangobob

Neil3030 wrote: »

And all too often the TMOs initially argue against the referee but back down.

Not to labour the point, but they dont "back down" because its not their job to "stand up" to the ref in the first place. Their job is simply to bring the evidence to the refs attention and he makes the final decision because he is the sole authority on the field. Its a pretty simple chain of command.

Squidgy Black

This should have been put away by the 20th minute, I'd imagine Leo and Stu will be fuming to go into half time with only 7 between the two teams.

Really need to come flying out of the blocks at kick off and get the next points on the board.

pickarooney

Neil3030 wrote: »

Why are people saying the TMO made the call?

Whitehouse asked him if he was sure, trusted this, and made the final call.

Decision before ego, good refereeing.

Come off it. That's like if you want chicken and your wife tells you you're having fish and you pretended you never actually wanted chicken.

RobbieRuns

Leinster should be 40 points ahead at half time. Won’t lose or anything but against better opponents those mistakes would be punished.

Clegg

Lyon are still down a man. Leinster need to start the second half as fast as they did the first. Get an early score and out the game to bed.

Neil3030

pickarooney wrote: »

If the tmo is not seeing the exact same thing as the ref and the spectators then what's the point? The TMO system is supposed to be fair and transparent but if it's based on something only one person has access to it completely undermines that.

Haven't been to the RDS in a few years. Are they handing out multiple high resolution screens to fans, control over replays from multiple angles and the ability to shield crowd noise to aid concentration? Wow, serious advances in gameday experience there.

Very inaccurate half from Leinster. Just a yard off the pace and need to tighten up now and play a pragmatic game for the next 20 minutes after half time. They can open up again for the final quarter but they need to put the game away and not let this turn into a battle.

clsmooth

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Weird game for Leinster. Could easily be 3 or 4 more tries to the good but look a bit ropey in defence.

Think defence has been a big concern this year. Playing some lovely stuff going forward but we seem to leaking a lot of points this year. I know sometimes it happens in games where we’re winning well such as Ulster and Northampton but we need to sort it.

PhlegmyMoses

mangobob wrote: »

Not to labour the point, but they dont "back down" because its not their job to "stand up" to the ref in the first place. Their job is simply to bring the evidence to the refs attention and he makes the final decision because he is the sole authority on the field. Its a pretty simple chain of command.

He said something weird for the McGrath try as well. "I will bring you irrefutable evidence that 9 was in front of the kicker". It's a weird way to position something to the ref imo

Neil3030

pickarooney wrote: »

Come off it. That's like if you want chicken and your wife tells you you're having fish and you pretended you never actually wanted chicken.

I might frame this as a great example of when argument from analogy wastes everyone's time.

hogandrew

Looked like Fardys left foot was in front of the ball when he picked it anyway?

Clegg

clsmooth wrote: »

Think defence has been a big concern this year. Playing some lovely stuff going forward but we seem to leaking a lot of points this year. I know sometimes it happens in games where we’re winning well such as Ulster and Northampton but we need to sort it.

We've been inconsistent in defence. Against Lyon and Munster away we shut them out completely. But against sides that wanted to throw the ball around we did the same and leaked some easy scores. Need to be better.

Neil3030

mangobob wrote: »

Not to labour the point, but they dont "back down" because its not their job to "stand up" to the ref in the first place. Their job is simply to bring the evidence to the refs attention and he makes the final decision because he is the sole authority on the field. Its a pretty simple chain of command.

And that chain of command was followed today, but with referee trusting the man analysing the clearer evidence to have made a correct call.

troyzer

clsmooth wrote: »

Think defence has been a big concern this year. Playing some lovely stuff going forward but we seem to leaking a lot of points this year. I know sometimes it happens in games where we’re winning well such as Ulster and Northampton but we need to sort it.

The Leinster defence has been unbelievably stingy this season with very few exceptions.

Dunney848

I think people are forgetting this is a top class Lyon side and they have been playing like it

yerrahbah

Are the mics picking up a strange noise?
On the phone so hard to tell