GE 2020: A left wing block

Mad_maxx

Idbatterim wrote: »

the obvious thing for me, is FG get rid of varadkar asap! then go back to representing, those that put them there! Whether that is a junior or senior party.

Leo is an insufferably smug prat but Martin is worse for me

Ireland has swung so much to the left, it's difficult for any sort of Conservative manifesto to gain a foothold, media would slaughter anyone who tried

Eric Cartman

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Leo is an insufferably smug prat but Martin is worse for me

Ireland has swung so much to the left, it's difficult for any sort of Conservative manifesto to gain a foothold, media would slaughter anyone who tried

the media and the rabble rabble protest groups would, but as weve seen with casey and the like, the ballot box can make the odds. JUst remember when leo was elected he was championing the 'welfare cheats cheat us all' campaign, he was elected with people seeing that, just a shame he just handed them more cash and did the opposite of what we wanted.

Idbatterim

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Leo is an insufferably smug prat but Martin is worse for me

Ireland has swung so much to the left, it's difficult for any sort of Conservative manifesto to gain a foothold, media would slaughter anyone who tried

The people elect him. Not the Media, I take your point. But many are through with the media here are the politicians! Many view the media here very cynically and I would hold them somewhat responsible for the state of politics here !!

Mad_maxx

Idbatterim wrote: »

The people elect him. Not the Media, I take your point. But many are through with the media here are the politicians! Many view the media here very cynically and I would hold them somewhat responsible for the state of politics here !!

The media push a high tax - high spend - big government in our lives agend

Leo rowed back on his promise to prioritise the "people who rise early" due to the media reaction

Eric Cartman

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The media push a high tax - high spend agenda

hard not to when theyre all begging for a broadcast charge, half their staff are independent contractors making under 35k a year and especially in print the future is very uncertain.

Idbatterim

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The media push a high tax - high spend - big government in our lives agend

Leo rowed back on his promise to prioritise the "people who rise early" due to the media reaction

Well he’s about to lose what matters , power , due to a public reaction

Mad_maxx

Eric Cartman wrote: »

hard not to when theyre all begging for a broadcast charge, half their staff are independent contractors making under 35k a year and especially in print the future is very uncertain.

It's more than that, RTE has been a hotbed of leftist ideology for fifty years

Mad_maxx

Snow Garden wrote: »

100% correct. Given our massive national debt, it's very very precarious. A recession will hit very hard, again.

FG have not and will not address the welfare state or the public sector gravy train. In fact they have made it worse (e.g. HSE).

And FF are even more likely to ignore the situation

meeeeh

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The media push a high tax - high spend - big government in our lives agend

Leo rowed back on his promise to prioritise the "people who rise early" due to the media reaction

You were looking for more holidays, paid sick leave and so on. That's the definition of left wing. (At least in Irish context).

Public sector unions have a lot of clout in Ireland but otherwise Irish politics in general would be closer to the right than left. Public service is fairly limited, if people would had to pay to visit a doctor where I come from there would be riots, similarly nobody would put up with the prices paid for childcare here. Ireland might be left wing in comparison tu US but not in comparison to continental Europe.

Annasopra

Augme wrote: »

Sinn Fein, labour, greens, soc Dems and and potentially a couple of independents would all be close enough in policy to form a working party in pretty much any other European country.

The problem is this is Ireland and most of the politicians first priority is themselves and their own ego. I don't think our parties can agree to comprise and behave in an adult way. I think sinn Fein would be the hardest party to get comprise with.

I could easily see labour, greens and Soc Dems getting a coalition together a lot easier but they will never get the numbers.

Paul Murphy specifically set up his new party because he wants to see a more United left and realised that will never happen with PBP et all.

The far left like PBP, SWP will always be left on the outside as their ideas will never be desired by most people.

If Paul Murphy genuinely wanted a united left he would work with Labour, Soc Dems, Greens

Loafing Oaf

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The media push a high tax - high spend - big government in our lives agend

Leo rowed back on his promise to prioritise the "people who rise early" due to the media reaction

More of a vague aspiration than a promise I'd say, and I don't believe he ever had any intention of honouring it, it was just an eyecatching but essentially vacuous soundbite chucked out in the midst of a party leadership campaign.

Topgear on Dave

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

If Paul Murphy genuinely wanted a united left he would work with Labour, Soc Dems, Greens

Alas I think Paul's personal priority is Paul.

Junkyard Tom

Eric Cartman wrote: »

people who cost the economy more than they contribute through their own poor choices, laziness or immorality.

Unfortunately they're well protected by Limited Liability and other legal instruments that distort the 'free market'.

Mad_maxx

meeeeh wrote: »

You were looking for more holidays, paid sick leave and so on. That's the definition of left wing. (At least in Irish context).

Public sector unions have a lot of clout in Ireland but otherwise Irish politics in general would be closer to the right than left. Public service is fairly limited, if people would had to pay to visit a doctor where I come from there would be riots, similarly nobody would put up with the prices paid for childcare here. Ireland might be left wing in comparison tu US but not in comparison to continental Europe.

Even in Sweden, No such thing as unconditional welfare benefits from cradle to grave

markodaly

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

After which general election would an alliance of left-wing parties have been in a position to form a government not involving FF or FG?

Never on their own but they had a chance in 2016 to go into government and they ran away from it.

markodaly

So, some interesting commentry all around.

There seems to be some agreement that left wing politics in Ireland are pre-occupied with themselves (e.g. Paul Murphy) or their own cause (e.g. SF) rather then going into government and improving the lives of the people who vote for them and enact change via being in government.

It is also very interesting that those who decry the duopoly of FG/FF in other threads are largely silent, never mind supporters of these left wing parties being quiet on the likelihood of a left wing block of sorts and defending the status quo.

This to me is the encapsulation of the issue. People are plenty brave giving out about 'da government' from their comfortable house, but when questions are asked direcly about a left wing block alternative forming a government, we get silence, because that means people have to get off the fence and stand up to be counted, something most left wing parties and voters dont do.

Tom Mann Centuria

markodaly wrote: »

This to me is the encapsulation of the issue. People are plenty brave giving out about 'da government' from their comfortable house, but when questions are asked direcly about a left wing block alternative forming a government, we get silence, because that means people have to get off the fence and stand up to be counted, something most left wing parties and voters dont do.

I'm comfortably housed, mid way through my mortgage, happy to say I'll personally vote as far left as local candidates allow, and I'd like a left wing block to form the government. Zero chance it'll ever be a left wing block government here but just answering your call

Idbatterim

Don’t know whether I shouldn’t vote or give ffg a first and second preference. Might send out a good message to the rest of the idiots in the dail, that as bad as ffg are , that the alternatives are the worst of the worst ...

The independents are time wasters. The abc brigade are another joke

Loafing Oaf

markodaly wrote: »

Never on their own but they had a chance in 2016 to go into government and they ran away from it.

Which parties are you talking about here? Both FF and FG ruled out any sort of deal with SF. Labour had just taken a mighty hammering from the electorate over the compromises it had made in coalition with FG; I doubt many of its supporters or potential supporters would be critical of it for not signing up for more of the same...

markodaly

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I'm comfortably housed, mid way through my mortgage, happy to say I'll personally vote as far left as local candidates allow, and I'd like a left wing block to form the government. Zero chance it'll ever be a left wing block government here but just answering your call

Appreciate the response, but why part bolded above?

Is it that Ireland is just too centrist to allow a left wing block or are the left wing in Ireland both ineffectual and out of touch?

markodaly

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Which parties are you talking about here? Both FF and FG ruled out any sort of deal with SF. Labour had just taken a mighty hammering from the electorate over the compromises it had made in coalition with FG; I doubt many of its supporters or potential supporters would be critical of it for not signing up for more of the same...

To take one example SF. They ran away from any possability to form a government as they were not the major party.

The fact is that they have changed their tune and are ready to go into government now as a minor party. A big change, and one that will cost them in the long run imo.

Loafing Oaf

markodaly wrote: »

To take one example SF. They ran away from any possability to form a government as they were not the major party.

There was no possibility that they would be involved in forming the government. Both FF and FG categorically ruled out doing any sort of deal with them.

markodaly

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

There was no possibility that they would be involved in forming the government. Both FF and FG categorically ruled out doing any sort of deal with them.

A deal is always impossible, until it is. SF in 2016 left the pitch before the game even started.

We hear the same thing this time out. FF wont go into bed with SF and visa versa...
I fully expect FF and SF to form some sort of pact, if numbers allow. MLD even conceded this fact some years ago.

Loafing Oaf

markodaly wrote: »

A deal is always impossible, until it is. SF in 2016 left the pitch before the game even started.

We hear the same thing this time out. FF wont go into bed with SF and visa versa...
I fully expect FF and SF to form some sort of pact, if numbers allow.

Numbers allowed in 2016, with the involvement of other left parties/independents. Martin clearly didn't give the idea a moment's thought.

Tom Mann Centuria

markodaly wrote: »

Appreciate the response, but why part bolded above?

Is it that Ireland is just too centrist to allow a left wing block or are the left wing in Ireland both ineffectual and out of touch?

Yeah, imo Ireland is too centrist, and too wedded to civil war parties which aren't borne out of any particular ideology. I'd agree ineffectual alternative parties also, Labour and Greens both tainted with propping up unpopular (in hindsight) government's and, as has been mentioned, the curse of further left politics, infighting.

This is only my perspective though (as somebody in the country for the last 17 years) , and infighting in right wing parties happens, just they're better at dealing with it. Johnson in the UK just expelled those not towing the line, Corbyn tried to placate, with miserable results.

vladmydad

Ireland is a one politics state. All the party’s are left wing. They have the same opinions on everything. Trump, Brexit, EU, UN, global warming, abortion, gay marriage, transgenderism, gender quotas, identity politics, globalization, high taxation and especially immigration. It’s essentially shifting the deck chairs every election.

Ironically we have no viable right wing or conservative party’s. No EU skeptical party’s, no viable anti mass immigration party, no social conservative party’s, no anti pc party, no nationalist Ireland first party, no pro free speech civil liberties party, hell there’s not even a libertarian party. It’s all leftistism everything is left wing. We’re the California of Europe. I’d rather be Texas but I’ve only got the National party to vote for and they ain’t gonna win.

SaintLeibowitz

Julie Aggressive Gate wrote: »

When the so-called "right-wing" parties are doling out €20 billion a year in social welfare payments, maintaining marginal tax rates of 52% on average earners, appeasing the public-sector unions, and supporting gay marriage and abortion on demand, a far-left coalition would have little appeal to most voters. Most of the "left-wing" or "socially liberal" stuff that most voters want has already been covered. Plus, a far-left coalition would attack corporate tax rates and multinationals, put 100,000 jobs at risk, and potentially lead to the unraveling of the economy -- and most voters are too smart to risk that.

Aren't you on the dole?

'abortion on demand'


Who the fcuk are trying to fool with that nonsense.

vladmydad

SaintLeibowitz wrote: »

Aren't you on the dole?

'abortion on demand'


Who the fcuk are trying to fool with that nonsense.

Up to 12 weeks you can now have an abortion for any reason, that’s literally “ on demand”.

Mad_maxx

SaintLeibowitz wrote: »

Aren't you on the dole?

'abortion on demand'


Who the fcuk are trying to fool with that nonsense.

He could buy and sell the entire collection of posters on the site but you're incorrect assumption is truly hilarious

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote: »

He could buy and sell the entire collection of posters on the site but you're incorrect assumption is truly hilarious

what?