What will happen to sinn fein after this election.

Dyr

NovemberWren wrote: »

increased democracy.

Implementing the British governments decisions.

No devolved government for two years

More Democracy mar dhea

Edgware

Bambi wrote: »

Implementing the British governments decisions.

No devolved government for two years

More Democracy mar dhea

Leave him be. The Ard Chomhairle has told him the line to spin

FrancieBrady

Bambi wrote: »

No devolved government for two years

More Democracy mar dhea

What walking away from a stagnant non functioning Stormont sparked off/achieved:

Same sex marriage legalised
Abortion legislation.
Irish language recognised and protected.
The Good Friday Agreement protected from the worst of Brexit.
Nationalist majority of MPs returned to Westminster

I would think that would be seen in anyone's eyes as 'more democracy' Bambi.

has the weather gotten better and all in that time, they could claim that too

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

has the weather gotten better and all in that time, they could claim that too

If you think the stuff on that list would have been achieved by the SDLP taking the oath and knighthoods or the DUP suddenly getting around to being democrats, well you are welcome to your delusions.

facehugger99

SF's experience of Government consists of doling out the billions of subvention they get every year from the mainland - and they can't even manage to do this.

But in the Republic they'll apparently be able to ramp up spending on pensions and welfare recipients build thousands of houses and sort out the health services just by taxing 'da rich'.

Anyone who believes in their nonsense deserves to live under them - just don't drag the rest of us down too.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you think the stuff on that list would have been achieved by the SDLP taking the oath and knighthoods or the DUP suddenly getting around to being democrats, well you are welcome to your delusions.

If you think SF or the DUP are due any credit for not doing the job they were elected for you are deluded. This was not a brilliant masterplan by either side.

Gunmonkey

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If you think SF or the DUP are due any credit for not doing the job they were elected for you are deluded. This was not a brilliant masterplan by either side.

No no no, I think FrancieBrady means that it would be better if the House of Commons dictated the legislation of Northern Ireland as more gets done under their direction than if SF are anywhere near power!

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If you think SF or the DUP are due any credit for not doing the job they were elected for you are deluded. This was not a brilliant masterplan by either side.

I think McGuinness knew exactly what he was doing actually. He was forcing the hands of the DUP. He as leader had been warning for several years beforehand that the GFA was stagnating and paralysing Stormont. What he didn't or couldn't see was the duplicitous deal done with May.
Once the DUP got shafted by Westminster things returned to 'normal' and the pressure came back on the DUP. They were told very clearly by the SoS that they were to blame solely for holding things up. And what happened after that 'resumption at Stormont' happened very quickly.

McMurphy

facehugger99 wrote: »

SF's experience of Government consists of doling out the billions of subvention they get every year from the mainland - and they can't even manage to do this.

But in the Republic they'll apparently be able to ramp up spending on pensions and welfare recipients build thousands of houses and sort out the health services just by taxing 'da rich'.

Anyone who believes in their nonsense deserves to live under them - just don't drag the rest of us down too.

I see what you did there. :pac:

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What walking away from a stagnant non functioning Stormont sparked off/achieved:

Same sex marriage legalised
Abortion legislation.
Irish language recognised and protected.
The Good Friday Agreement protected from the worst of Brexit.
Nationalist majority of MPs returned to Westminster

I would think that would be seen in anyone's eyes as 'more democracy' Bambi.

What spin!!! You are a master at it, Francie. Here is the reality:

The colonial masters in London had to legislate for same sex marriage and abortion because the childish politicians in the North couldn't do it.

The Irish language didn't get its own standalone Act which was the reason Stormont was stalled for three years which the ordinary people in the North suffered from a failure to reform health and education, much bigger issues than the Irish language.

The GFA has been badly damaged by Brexit, with the Johnson deal being particularly difficult and damaging. Staying in the CM and SU were the targets, we didn't get them, so nothing to celebrate.

As for Westminister, the two sectarian parties responsible for the farce in Stormont got rightly punished in those elections.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think McGuinness knew exactly what he was doing actually. He was forcing the hands of the DUP. He as leader had been warning for several years beforehand that the GFA was stagnating and paralysing Stormont. What he didn't or couldn't see was the duplicitous deal done with May.
Once the DUP got shafted by Westminster things returned to 'normal' and the pressure came back on the DUP. They were told very clearly by the SoS that they were to blame solely for holding things up. And what happened after that 'resumption at Stormont' happened very quickly.

so you area saying that this was a brilliant masterplan by SF? The only thing stagnating stormont was two parties behaving like children. The real good to come from it is that those of us in the republic got even more evidence that a united ireland would be a terrible idea.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you area saying that this was a brilliant masterplan by SF? The only thing stagnating stormont was two parties behaving like children.

There is one very easy way for you to prove this.

Show us the rights and commitments in the GFA that Sinn Fein were standing in the way of and using the Petition of concern to block?

Take your time. Meanwhile a quick google brings up this warning about the state of play from 2014 made by SF's Sean Crowe in the Dáil.
We know you guys and others were not listening and it all came as a surpriose when the show collapsed, but that isn't the fault of nationalists.

The North is still without the promised Bill of rights that could conceivably have been the basis for resolving the issues of parades, the past, flags, and emblems, that would have, arguably, contributed to a process of reconciliation and the promised shared inclusive spaces. The British Government has failed in its commitment to implement an Irish language Act and a full public inquiry into the killing of Pat Finucane. The Good Friday Agreement enshrines the rights of all cultures and identities to equality and parity of esteem regardless of the issue of sovereignty. Yet the British Government pushed through legislation on the flying of the Union flag on a set number of days. This was long before the Belfast City Council decision and was seen as a sop to David Trimble and unionism. Was it not legitimate for some to ask why there was no similar or parallel provision being enacted with regard to Irish identify in the North?

The old pals approach meant the unionists did not have to engage and reach agreement on the issue. This move further entrenched the demands of the few over the rights of the many. In these important matters it appears that the Irish Government has allowed itself to become a junior, ineffective, silent partner. This passive and silent approach makes progress more difficult and encourages, some would say feeds, the belief of those opposed to change.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2014-02-05/23/

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is one very easy way for you to prove this.

Show us the rights and commitments in the GFA that Sinn Fein were standing in the way of and using the Petition of concern to block?

Take your time. Meanwhile a quick google brings up this warning about the state of play from 2014 made by SF's Sean Crowe in the Dáil.
We know you guys and others were not listening and it all came as a surpriose when the show collapsed, but that isn't the fault of nationalists.



https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2014-02-05/23/

and 3 years later, when you were happy for westminster to have direct control, there still is no irish language act. Brilliant masterplan indeed. It is always somebody elses fault. SF are a party totally unfit for government.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and 3 years later, when you were happy for westminster to have direct control, there still is no irish language act. Brilliant masterplan indeed. It is always somebody elses fault. SF are a party totally unfit for government.

So now you are saying it was just about the ILA?

Dear me. Let me give my perception of your position...'It will always always be SF's fault. No matter what facts are put on the table'.

I didn't call it a 'masterplan' btw. I said simply, 'Martin McGuinness knew exactly what he was doing'. He was bringing pressure to bear in the only way left open to him.
What complicated and delayed that, was Theresa May's duplicitious deal with the DUP.
Things resolved themselves very quickly once the DUP could no longer hide behind that deal.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So now you are saying it was just about the ILA?

Dear me. Let me give my perception of your position...'It will always always be SF's fault. No matter what facts are put on the table'.

I didn't call it a 'masterplan' btw. I said simply, 'Martin McGuinness knew exactly what he was doing'. He was bringing pressure to bear in the only way left open to him.
What complicated and delayed that, was Theresa May's duplicitious deal with the DUP.
Things resolved themselves very quickly once the DUP could no longer hide behind that deal.

You said it was done deliberately by SF. and it isn't jsut the ILA. there have been 3 years of stagnation in NI. 3 years of gettin paid for doing SFA. and i dont just blame SF. I blame the DUP as well. they are both as bad as each other.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You said it was done deliberately by SF. and it isn't jsut the ILA. there have been 3 years of stagnation in NI. 3 years of gettin paid for doing SFA. and i dont just blame SF. I blame the DUP as well. they are both as bad as each other.

Of course collapsing the executive was done 'deliberately'.

Why would it continue when there was no prospect of progress?

Any government falls if that happens. Our own just did.

If an arrangement cannot be found then there will be no government here either.

How long was it the last time..65 days?

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course collapsing the executive was done 'deliberately'.

Why would it continue when there was no prospect of progress?

Any government falls if that happens. Our own just did.

If an arrangement cannot be found then there will be no government here either.

How long was it the last time..65 days?

The government didnt collapse. an election was called. Negotiation took place afterwards as to who can form a government. An entirely normal turn of events in a democratic country even if the time to actually form a government was a bit longer than normal. An entirely different situation to just taking your ball home.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The government didnt collapse. an election was called. Negotiation took place afterwards as to who can form a government. An entirely normal turn of events in a democratic country even if the time to actually form a government was a bit longer than normal. An entirely different situation to just taking your ball home.

Ah the willing suspension of the reality there.

An election was called because the government was going to collapse. Why? Because FF were going to 'take their ball(C&S) home'.

Come on, stop the disingenuous debating here.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah the willing suspension of the reality there.

An election was called because the government was going to collapse. Why? Because FF were going to 'take their ball(C&S) home'.

Come on, stop the disingenuous debating here.

whatever francie. you seem to think it is normal for a party in government to just pack up and go home with no mechanism for a new government to be formed. It seems not bothering to do the job you are paid for is the SF way.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

whatever francie. you seem to think it is normal for a party in government to just pack up and go home with no mechanism for a new government to be formed. It seems not bothering to do the job you are paid for is the SF way.

For starters, it isn't a 'normal' government set up.
The job they were paid to do, or elected to do, could no longer be done. And the two governments tasked by an international agreement to see to it, that the jobs should be done, sat on their hands.

But sure, ignore all that...whatever.

bladespin

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The government didnt collapse. an election was called.

100% correct, I've spent the last year so so waiting for the explosion but they actually handled it like grownups :eek:

I can see it again, maybe with the roles reversed, really can.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah the willing suspension of the reality there.

An election was called because the government was going to collapse. Why? Because FF were going to 'take their ball(C&S) home'.

One would wonder how they managed to govern for 4 years.

Wonder how long the Shinners would have managed in a grand collation of left-wing nutters?

We never did get to find out because they sh;t themselves when faced with that prospect.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Come on, stop the disingenuous debating here.

:rolleyes:

piplip87

FrancieBrady wrote: »

For starters, it isn't a 'normal' government set up.
The job they were paid to do, or elected to do, could no longer be done. And the two governments tasked by an international agreement to see to it, that the jobs should be done, sat on their hands.

But sure, ignore all that...whatever.

Typical Shinner. Everybody else's fault......

James Brown

piplip87 wrote: »

Typical Shinner. Everybody else's fault......

Blaming the government for government actions. The cheek

FrancieBrady

piplip87 wrote: »

Typical Shinner. Everybody else's fault......

There is plenty to criticise and blame SF for, like any other party. But blaming them for the collapse of the executive, when there were clear signs for a number of years that it was in trouble, is just wrong.

maccored

Edgware wrote: »

Leave him be. The Ard Chomhairle has told him the line to spin

Paranoid much?

Dyr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What walking away from a stagnant non functioning Stormont sparked off/achieved:

Same sex marriage legalised
Abortion legislation.
Irish language recognised and protected.
The Good Friday Agreement protected from the worst of Brexit.
Nationalist majority of MPs returned to Westminster

I would think that would be seen in anyone's eyes as 'more democracy' Bambi.

You're right maybe we should just go back to direct rule for NI. That wil be SFs greatest achievement, cementing the position of the Briitsh Government on this Island

FrancieBrady

Bambi wrote: »

You're right maybe we should just go back to direct rule for NI. That wil be SFs greatest achievement, cementing the position of the Briitsh Government on this Island

We all signed up to the idea of the British government living up to it's commitments and agreements. (the British, The Irish Government, SF, The UUP, Alliance, The SDLP, etc)
They committed to delivering the first 3 in that list, in the GFA and subsequent deals.
They did...eventually.

tipptom

facehugger99 wrote: »

SF's experience of Government consists of doling out the billions of subvention they get every year from the mainland - and they can't even manage to do this.

But in the Republic they'll apparently be able to ramp up spending on pensions and welfare recipients build thousands of houses and sort out the health services just by taxing 'da rich'.

Anyone who believes in their nonsense deserves to live under them - just don't drag the rest of us down too.

You can always slink off to the MAINLAND if it comes to pass,will be no loss and bring a few more of the self hating insecure "Irishmen" on here with you.