Solving the “middle lane hoggers” problem.

tom1ie

So as the title of this thread suggests I’m putting forward an idea to maybe help with the problem of people driving in the middle lane of a 3 lane motorway when there is no traffic in the left hand driving lane of that motorway.
Paint road markings on the middle lane and the outside lane that say “please merge into lane 1 for driving lane. Overtaking lane only.”
I’m sure this could be shortened. It should be accompanied by a merge arrow.
Would this work?
We have a big problem with people not even knowing they are driving incorrectly on 3 lane motorway, so why don’t we tell them when they are on the actual motorway by using the paint coupled with overhead gantrys.
Please discuss and tell me why it’s a terrible idea and destined not to work

CelticRambler

tom1ie wrote: »

Please discuss and tell me why it’s a terrible idea and destined not to work

Same reason painting "BUS LANE" in big letters on the road doesn't stop people who shouldn't be in there using it. :rolleyes:

pablo128

Gardai and more Gardai on the roads are the only solution.

_Kaiser_

Wouldn't work on something like the M50 where the sheer volume of traffic and number of exits/merges in close proximity mean that all lanes become driving lanes at rush hour. all would do is cause even more lane-hopping than there is now.

Outside of busy periods, it's unnecessary anyway. I always fail to see what the obsession is with middle lane drivers. Just overtake them and be done with it and focus on your own driving.

_Kaiser_

pablo128 wrote: »

Gardai and more Gardai on the roads are the only solution.

Gardai are among the worst offenders - some of the standard of driving I've seen is ridiculous (and yes, internal policy means they are meant to abide by the same rules as the rest of us under normal circumstances).

Besides, AGS are only interested in speeding and disc checks. I've witnessed numerous occasions where someone did something stupid in full view of a squad car and the latter had no interest.

People drive in the middle lane for a number of reasons*, but the one I've heard most often is because they don't want to have to keep moving in/out to overtake others in the left lane. The vast majority of people who give out about middle lane hoggers are doing so because, surprise surprise, they don't want to have to keep moving in/out to overtake others in the middle lane.

"look at this dope sitting here in the middle lane instead of moving left, now I have to change lanes so that I can overtake him and move back into the middle lane"

*A lot of the time its because those in the left are driving slower due to whatever reasons (reluctance to change lanes because you're leaving next exit or driving to match the speed of those already in the lane as you join are two common, reasonable ones).

Personally, the only time I deliberately opt not to drive on the left is if the traffic is heavy and the left-most lane is moving a lot slower than the others. the correct thing to do is move in, then back out when you go to overtake your man in front. Often, there won't be a break in traffic to move back out, and you're forced to match the speed of the guy in front, which in turn makes it more difficult to merge into lane 2.

I predict I'll get crucified for this but...

This kind of thing wasn't emphasised at all in getting my license. I drive where ever there is space. I don't want to drive in the left lane as that's where people merge at slower speeds.

tom1ie

CelticRambler wrote: »

Same reason painting "BUS LANE" in big letters on the road doesn't stop people who shouldn't be in there using it. :rolleyes:

Yes but people who drive in bus lanes when they shouldn't, KNOW they're chancing their arm
Middle lane drivers generally haven't a clue.

tom1ie

pablo128 wrote: »

Gardai and more Gardai on the roads are the only solution.

If we had 2000 guards dedicated to the traffic core dedicated to the M50 we'd still have mlh's (middle lane hoggers 😀)
I've even seen guards guilty of the above.

tom1ie

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Wouldn't work on something like the M50 where the sheer volume of traffic and number of exits/merges in close proximity mean that all lanes become driving lanes at rush hour. all would do is cause even more lane-hopping than there is now.

Outside of busy periods, it's unnecessary anyway. I always fail to see what the obsession is with middle lane drivers. Just overtake them and be done with it and focus on your own driving.

They reduce capacity as technically you can't overtake them in lane 1 even if you are doing under the speed limit.
In effect they refuse 3 lane roads down to 2 lanes.

tom1ie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I predict I'll get crucified for this but...

This kind of thing wasn't emphasised at all in getting my license. I drive where ever there is space. I don't want to drive in the left lane as that's where people merge at slower speeds.

Overtaking is for lane 2 and lane 3.

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

Overtaking is for lane 2 and lane 3.

So everyone should be in the left lane unless overtaking? That may be the rules but I don't get the logic.

Professor Genius

tom1ie wrote: »

So as the title of this thread suggests I’m putting forward an idea to maybe help with the problem of people driving in the middle lane of a 3 lane motorway when there is no traffic in the left hand driving lane of that motorway.
Paint road markings on the middle lane and the outside lane that say “please merge into lane 1 for driving lane. Overtaking lane only.”
I’m sure this could be shortened. It should be accompanied by a merge arrow.
Would this work?
We have a big problem with people not even knowing they are driving incorrectly on 3 lane motorway, so why don’t we tell them when they are on the actual motorway by using the paint coupled with overhead gantrys.
Please discuss and tell me why it’s a terrible idea and destined not to work

The left lane is the slow lane and the middle lane the medium lane and the right lane the fast lane. It’s fairly straightforward

pablo128

Deleted User wrote: »

So everyone should be in the left lane unless overtaking? That may be the rules but I don't get the logic.

If you got a couple of points on your licence you'd get the logic quick enough.

is_that_so

There are very few out and out three lane roads. The M50, as stated above, is a law onto itself and I've never been irritated by this so-called middle lane hogging anywhere. Plenty of "fast lane" hogging everywhere, though!

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

So everyone should be in the left lane unless overtaking? That may be the rules but I don't get the logic.

Agreed - in theory if the lead car was doing exactly the legal limit, you'd have a single line of traffic on a 3 lane motorway

In reality, many drivers can't even do the legal limit (when no reason not to), or cannot maintain a consistent speed, are oblivious or just ignorant of other drivers, plus - as I said above - the number of exits and merges on something like the M50 where this is an "issue" means cars would be constantly weaving lanes.

pablo128

pablo128 wrote: »

If you got a couple of points on your licence you'd get the logic quick enough.

Because its the law. Is that the best reason you can come up with

_Kaiser_

is_that_so wrote: »

There are very few out and out three lane roads. The M50, as stated above, is a law onto itself and I've never been irritated by this so-called middle lane hogging anywhere. Plenty of "fast lane" hogging everywhere, though!

Is this because you yourself are trying to overtake L2 dwellers, or just because it annoys you on a personal level?

Genuine question.. often I find the worst drivers are those who think they're in the "right" and try to police the behaviour of others around them.

El_Duderino 09

CelticRambler wrote: »

Same reason painting "BUS LANE" in big letters on the road doesn't stop people who shouldn't be in there using it. :rolleyes:

I’d say it stops people who didn’t know it was a bus lane. And it stops people who don’t want to be seen obviously breaking the rules.

I’d say tv ad campaigns are a good idea to promote good practice.

I wonder if middle lane hogging actually causes problems or is it just annoying to see?

andekwarhola

Whereas people that veer straight into the overtaking lane, stay there and tailgate at high speed and then veer across to the exit with seconds to spare are not the real issue behind most crashes on motorways

Princess Calla

The only road I drive on regularly with 3 lanes is the m50.

I'll be honest and say you will find me in the middle Lane.

Why?

People merging don't build up their speed before exiting the slip road, it's like they have to join ASAP. The amount of times I've been motoring along and then have to reduce speed substantially is ridiculous.

You will also have the right Lane hoggers realising that their exit is 200 m ahead so they are pulling in aggressively from the right.

With exits and mergers nearly every 2-5 km along the m50 the above behaviour is a pain in the hoop.

You will also have drivers who are uncomfortable going over 60-80 km/h.

So yeah I'll cruise at the limit in the middle Lane, I'll move over to the right if I need to overtake and then back into the middle Lane.

Now if someone is driving 60-80 km/h in middle Lane with an open road in front of them, I find that very annoying.

andekwarhola

While there are lane hoggers, most of the criticism of Lane hogging isn't about altruism and good driving, it's more I drive like a cnut and want everybody to get out of my way.

anacc

pablo128 wrote: »

Gardai and more Gardai on the roads are the only solution.

Just last week I got stuck behind a traffic corps car cruising along at 80kph in the middle lane of the N40 while the left lane was empty and the right lane was held up by someone going about 1kph faster than the cop car. Very frustrating when the people who are supposed to police the road don't even know the rules of the road.

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

I predict I'll get crucified for this but...

This kind of thing wasn't emphasised at all in getting my license. I drive where ever there is space. I don't want to drive in the left lane as that's where people merge at slower speeds.

Is this the real issue?
Many drivers do not know how to allow other cars to merge?

Deleted User wrote: »

So everyone should be in the left lane unless overtaking? That may be the rules but I don't get the logic.

Try to look at it from a traffic flow point of view that's where the logic is.

is_that_so

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Is this because you yourself are trying to overtake L2 dwellers, or just because it annoys you on a personal level?

Genuine question.. often I find the worst drivers are those who think they're in the "right" and try to police the behaviour of others around them.

I actually don't think about it. I just watch the road and get home safe. People will do all sorts of dumb things on the road without my input!

tom1ie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So everyone should be in the left lane unless overtaking? That may be the rules but I don't get the logic.

They are the rules and if everyone obeyed those rules we would have people overtaking and then getting back into the left lane thus freeing up capacity on the road.
What we have at the moment is people driving from the red cow to new bridge in the middle lane at 70kph thus making people overtake in lane 3 and leaving lane 1 empty.

tuxy

Princess Calla wrote: »

The only road I drive on regularly with 3 lanes is the m50.

I'll be honest and say you will find me in the middle Lane.

Why?

People merging don't build up their speed before exiting the slip road, it's like they have to join ASAP. The amount of times I've been motoring along and then have to reduce speed substantially is ridiculous.

You will also have the right Lane hoggers realising that their exit is 200 m ahead so they are pulling in aggressively from the right.

With exits and mergers nearly every 2-5 km along the m50 the above behaviour is a pain in the hoop.

You will also have drivers who are uncomfortable going over 60-80 km/h.

So yeah I'll cruise at the limit in the middle Lane, I'll move over to the right if I need to overtake and then back into the middle Lane.

Now if someone is driving 60-80 km/h in middle Lane with an open road in front of them, I find that very annoying.

I don't think I need to get into the nightmare that is the m50, so many things need to be fixed I wouldn't know where to start.

The occasional time you are on other 3 lane roads do you use the lanes correctly?
The issue is that middle lane hoggers force other drivers to use the other lanes incorrectly. It has a dominoes effect that means very few are using the road correctly which causes traffic jams and collisions.

They have 3 lanes on part of the M7 now, it was a complete waste of time and money. No one uses the driving lane

BelfastVanMan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So everyone should be in the left lane unless overtaking? That may be the rules but I don't get the logic.

Sorry; what exactly don't you understand..?

BelfastVanMan

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Sorry; what exactly don't you understand..?

It's perfectly simple...in the 6 Counties, it's part of the test. In fact, it's part of most driving tests in Europe.

Middle-lane hoggers need re-educated on how to drive properly, otherwise they shouldn't be on the road.

The clue is in the name; OVERTAKING LANES.

BelfastVanMan

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Sorry; what exactly don't you understand..?

Having three lanes and using two of them to only overtake. Without doing any research whatsoever; this seems inefficient.

BelfastVanMan

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

It's perfectly simple...in the 6 Counties, it's part of the test. In fact, it's part of most driving tests in Europe.

Middle-lane hoggers need re-educated on how to drive properly, otherwise they shouldn't be on the road.

The clue is in the name; OVERTAKING LANES.

You forgot to change accounts

Princess Calla

tuxy wrote: »

I don't think I need to get into the nightmare that is the m50, so many things need to be fixed I wouldn't know where to start.

The occasional time you are on other 3 lane roads do you use the lanes correctly?
The issue is that middle lane hoggers force other drivers to use the other lanes incorrectly. It has a dominoes effect that means very few are using the road correctly which causes traffic jams and collisions.

They have 3 lanes on part of the M7 now, it was a complete waste of time and money. No one uses the driving lane

Yeah, I'm a pretty much follow the rules type of gal.

I will sit in slow /non moving traffic if that's the lane I should be in...ie an exit, rather than driving to the top and trying to squeeze in.

I haven't actually been on the M7 yet, the last time I was on it, it was under construction.

At peak times it would be busy, I often went into kildare outlet to browse for an hour until it eased off,however never had an issue with traffic off peak....that said urban sprawl etc having a three laned road is probably good planning, rather than the firefighting approach usually taken.

Newuseruntaken

I do most of my driving in the middle lane. People in the left lane are normally going much slower than me so I’m not going to spend my time dodging in and out of lanes for no good reason, it would benefit no one and be more likely to cause an accident than just staying in the one lane at a consistent speed. I drive at the speed limit so anyone overtaking me on the right lane can’t whinge about me as they would be breaking the speed limit so who are they to talk.

The only time I’ll drive in the left lane is if I’m driving at a quiet time when there’s hardly any cars on the road.

GhostyMcGhost

tom1ie wrote: »

What we have at the moment is people driving from the red cow to new bridge in the middle lane at 70kph thus making people overtake in lane 3 and leaving lane 1 empty.

Creating little pockets of traffic everywhere

Some people sit behind them assuming it’s traffic instead of overtaking so you get 7 or 8 cars all sandwiched together yet open roads once you get past them

Charlie-Bravo

I love these threads. The general unwritten rule is, you shouldn't be able to be undertaken. So if you're happy as a camper doing the middle lane thing and get undertaken, take it that someone appreciated your driving approach! /Sarcasm


Can we talk about roundabouts now? Shall we do lanes or indicating or both

Charlie-Bravo

In all seriousness, and to attempt to educate those less knowledgeable on their road craft, I'd suggest the information signs be utilised to say, use left lane for driving, lanes 2 and 3 for overtaking. Keep it simple as much as possible.

heroics

Attached image is the only option that will work

Sadb

The problem with middle lane driving is that you are often forced to “undertake”. It happens to me almost every single time I drive on a road near me. 3 lanes so I’m driving in the left lane at 100km, some eejit in the middle lane driving at 80km (because they are always driving slower- every- single- time). What do I do? Slow down and drive at 75km so I don’t undertake them? Move out across 2 lanes of traffic to overtake them even though they are in the wrong lane anyway?
How do people think it’s acceptable?

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

They have 3 lanes on part of the M7 now, it was a complete waste of time and money. No one uses the driving lane

This x100000000000
The time, effort, inconvenience and money that went into expanding M7 to a 3 lane motorway, and only 2 lanes are ever used. It’s mind boggling the culture we have here. You’re in the minority if you use the driving lane.

To legally overtake you have to do 4 lane changes. Why did they bother expanding it. At least expand it and include signs that say keep left

Elemonator

Doesn't work with bus lanes. Doesn't work with red lights. You will always get people breaking the law because it suits them. The only thing that will solve middle lane hoggers/running reds/bus lane use/non use of indicators is enforcement and mandatory retraining to avoid conviction. If that doesn't work, massive fines will sort it out.

s7ryf3925pivug

Weird. I thought the first lane was for people joining and leaving the road and maybe for heavy vehicles. That's what seemed logical and consistent with observation and I was never told otherwise. I learnt to drive somewhere without three lane motorways.

MLH is not the biggest issue on the M50.

1) People who try to merge at 50km. Causes huge issues to people already on the motorway and the people on the slip behind them.

2) When people entering the motorway refuse to merge in a timely manner and are still driving up what has now become the exit lane. Prevents people getting into the exit lane.

M5

AI controlled landmines? If you're not overtaking and not in heavy traffic....pop!

tuxy

Self-Driving cars, humans on average do not have the mental capacity to operate mechanically propelled vehicles in a safe manner. But some probably have the capacity to create a system that the general population can use.

_Kaiser_

Viviana High Rationalism wrote: »

Weird. I thought the first lane was for people joining and leaving the road and maybe for heavy vehicles. That's what seemed logical and consistent with observation and I was never told otherwise. I learnt to drive somewhere without three lane motorways.

That would be the reality of how the lane is used, as well as by traffic dawdling at 20+ km/h lower than surrounding traffic/the limit for no reason.

Add in merges and exits within close proximity on the M50 and cars constantly joining and leaving the road.

Result : unless you want to be constantly changing lanes, it's easier and safer to just continue at a constant speed matching the other traffic in the outer lanes.

Me, unless it's quiet (in which case it really makes no difference anyway) I cruise between lanes 3 and 2 on the M50/7 and avoid the situation entirely. I don't lane weave, I don't change lanes without looking and indicating first, I watch the surrounding traffic, and I don't dawdle.

Much easier and less stressful.

Alun

Deleted User wrote: »

MLH is not the biggest issue on the M50.

1) People who try to merge at 50km. Causes huge issues to people already on the motorway and the people on the slip behind them.

The one drives the other though, i.e. a lot of people avoid lane 1 precisely because most drivers don't have a frigging clue as to how to merge properly so end up just barging on at a snail's pace under the mistaken impression that traffic on the mainline has to give way to them.

tuxy

Alun wrote: »

The one drives the other though, i.e. a lot of people avoid lane 1 precisely because most drivers don't have a frigging clue as to how to merge properly so end up just barging on at a snail's pace under the mistaken impression that traffic on the mainline has to give way to them.

What do you expect these people to do?
Their petrol engine could explode if they go above 3k RPM :eek:

Danno

In moderate traffic I will not use the left lane. Nobody is doing the 100kmph or 120kmph allowed speed there, so rather than weave in and out of the left lane it is much easier to stay in the middle lane until there is a 500m or more clear stretch of left lane clear to return safely to at near the speed limit. Plus, cruising at a constant speed means less fuel burnt and less C02, you have to keep the greens happy you know?

Guy:Incognito

Has landmines been suggested?

If not, I suggest landmines.

On the M50, 90% of the time I'll be going faster than the middle lane, without breaking the speed limit.

Charlie-Bravo

You can cruise safely in and out of the proper driving lane as you approach a car ahead in traffic or for merging vehicles. If you've got a large gap between the vehicles driving in the left lane, then there's plenty of time to move in and out. I find this keeps you alert to what's going on around you.

Driving in the left lane means you mainly keep your observation to the right side, and not both sides of the car.

So what I am reading is so far, a lot of people are oblivious to how to properly drive on a 3 lane motorway. What I would suggest to those that think staying in the middle lane helps traffic merge, that driving in the left lane until you meet a car merging (regardless of their speed), it is good etiquette to move out to the middle lane to allow the other car to merge, and then move back into the left lane once you passed them.

tuxy

Do these people hog the middle lane while outside of Ireland?
I can't see drivers in other developed countries tolerating someone ****ing with their traffic flow like this.
Except the US where everyone just uses a random lane but look at their traffic fatality rate. :eek: