What is a champagne socialist?

mariaalice

Although I don't suppose the daft left will raise more than a blip in this election.

We don't have an aristocracy so in an Irish context it's mostly someone of a modest middle-class background taking up with Sinn Fein or other even more to the left party.

Utter Consternation

Paul Murphy.

/close thread

Richard Boy Barrett.

A rich kid who likes to tell the poor that he’s their saviour.

jimgoose

A college-educated namby-pamby who doesn't do this:

bladespin

Green party, Eamonn Ryan would be the atypical champagne politician

mariaalice

Deleted User wrote: »

Richard Boy Barrett.

A rich kid who likes to tell the poor that he’s their saviour.

So in the Irish context, its means having parents who had careers or their own business and sent their child to a fee-paying school? genuinely do posters consider this rich? Irish politics is very petty sometimes.

James Brown

Any leftist politician who comes from a middle class background. You are only allowed have leftist views if you wear a coal sack and live by the side of the road. Much like you can only join FG if you are a spiv.

Boils down to FF/FG types looking to demean any left wing politician. The funny thing is FG and the left will claim to support the tax paying worker but the left get called out if not from a dirt poor low educated family, which says a lot about how FG see workers.

mariaalice

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Any leftist politician who comes from a middle class background. You are only allowed have leftist views if you wear a coal sack and live by the side of the road. Much like you can only join FG if you are a spiv.

Boils down to FF/FG types looking to demean any left wing politician. The funny thing is FG and the left will claim to support the tax paying worker but the left get called out if not from a dirt poor low educated family, which says a lot about how FG see workers.

I do think its a bit odd for anyone to reject their background but its hardly crime of the century.

James Brown

mariaalice wrote: »

I do think its a bit odd for anyone to reject their background but its hardly crime of the century.

Everyone would like to be wealthy. Left means equality for me. There is still room to make wealth. Not so many millionaires and billionaires who squirrel away money is a good thing.

Phoebas

I guess it's a left wing politician who own lifestyle is completely different from the people they claim to represent and who wouldn't normally associate with them unless they needed their votes.

In reality, especially in Ireland, they don't really exist and it's usually just a lazy slur.

Thelonious

Deleted User wrote: »

Richard Boy Barrett.

A rich kid who likes to tell the poor that he’s their saviour.

He loves poor people so much that he is determined to create more of them with his policies.

JohnnyFlash

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Any leftist politician who comes from a middle class background. You are only allowed have leftist views if you wear a coal sack and live by the side of the road. Much like you can only join FG if you are a spiv.

Boils down to FF/FG types looking to demean any left wing politician. The funny thing is FG and the left will claim to support the tax paying worker but the left get called out if not from a dirt poor low educated family, which says a lot about how FG see workers.

Do you intentionally make every thread about FG or is it some sort of Pavlovian response at this stage?

As for your post itself, complete and utter gibberish.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Do you intentionally make every thread about FG or is it some sort of Pavlovian response at this stage?

As for your post itself, complete and utter gibberish.

You suggest I speak about politics but ignore the government? Not my fault they embarrass their own.

The idea that well educated people from a decent standard of living can't be leftist, that's how champagne socialist is used.

CrankyHaus

The term has or had some validity to describe wealthy people espousing far left positions from lives of privilege which left them clueless about the hardship and class oppression they railed against. These were more common in the 20th century richer economies and could be found in violent left wing groups in the 1960s and 1970s, Academia and the Trades Union movement and its associated "social partnership" style state-involved dispute resolution structures.

Nowadays it's not really relevant. Rich young people who would have been socialists in the 1970s are now directed instead into dogmatic "woke" positions on social issues but remain Capitalists red in tooth and claw - "Rainbow Capitalists".

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

I do think its a bit odd for anyone to reject their background but its hardly crime of the century.

I think that they claim to reject their backgrounds while still living there. Saying one thing while doing the opposite.

Brussels Sprout

I don't necessarily think you have to be from a wealthy background. The heads of the various unions making hundreds of thousands of euros in salary, like David Begg, for example always struck me as classic champagne socialists. Likewise for the heads of the various charities.

James Brown

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The term has or had some validity to describe wealthy people espousing far left positions from lives of privilege which left them clueless about the hardship and class oppression they railed against. These were more common in the 20th century richer economies and could be found in violent left wing groups in the 1960s and 1970s, Academia and the Trades Union movement and its associated "social partnership" style state-involved dispute resolution structures.

Nowadays it's not really relevant. Rich young people who would have been socialists in the 1970s are now directed instead into dogmatic "woke" positions on social issues but remain Capitalists red in tooth and claw - "Rainbow Capitalists".

I'd put Labour HQ as champagne socialists, but I'd base that on their out of touch time in government, not their family backgrounds.

mariaalice

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Do you intentionally make every thread about FG or is it some sort of Pavlovian response at this stage?

As for your post itself, complete and utter gibberish.

Explain why its gibberish?

Champagne socialist is a lazy slur in the Irish context, but I do susperct there are those who genuinely think middle class equals unimaginable wealth and a life of ease.

The other point being why not evidence-based debate on why their policies are wrong as opposed to personal attacks.

griffin100

For me Sinn Feins Eoin O'Broin is the archetypal champagne socialist. Criticises Eoin Murphy for being a posh boy put of touch with the normal folk, yet has an almost identical background re. fee paying schools and UK Universitys. Although to be fair O'Broin did get one up on Murphy by marrying a girl from Tallaght.

purifol0

The examples mentioned here pale in comparison to our sitting President. Two term Prez Higgins has been a vocal socialist his entire career while profiting greatly from the taxes of the actual workers. Its absolutely amazing if not straight out obscene how much tax money he now trousers while spouting socialist rhetoric. It won't stop when he's out of the big house either, those politicians pensions are really something to behold.

Not forgettting his NUI Galway pension at 19 grand a year - yes he's taking that too:
https://galwaydaily.com/news/president-higgins-still-getting-e19000-nui-galway-pension-while-in-office/

And of course the 300K a year he gets to spend wily nily on entertainment, this was questioned by Catherine Connolly at the Public Accounts Committee a year or two ago.

Now dont get me wrong, he was the best of a bad bunch by quite a bit but still, is the very definition of champagne socialist.

Phoebas

griffin100 wrote: »

Although to be fair O'Broin did get one up on Murphy by marrying a girl from Tallaght.

Such dedication to the suffering classes that he took one of them into his home.

bladespin

For me it's the politicians (any) who suddenly grow a economic, environmental, legal conscience when it suits them, the Labour and the Greens would be worst (though SF are in there too), tut tutting at us for our terrible behavior then betraying their own core principals for a taste, then it's back to the tut tutting.

Green party with the Diesel car tax fiasco encapsulates it for me, they're always good for a laugh.

andekwarhola

I wouldn't begrudge people their political views views based on their background but champagne socialism to me means more hypocrisy about publicly held views vs genuine life. For example, middle class liberals berating people as bigots for having misgivings about halting sites in their own areas while knowing secretly that they'll never ever have to deal with it.

sabat

Read Tom Wolfe's Radical Chic for the original and best account of the phenomenon:

https://nymag.com/docs/07/05/070529radical_chic.pdf

marieholmfan

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Any leftist politician who comes from a middle class background. You are only allowed have leftist views if you wear a coal sack and live by the side of the road. Much like you can only join FG if you are a spiv.

Boils down to FF/FG types looking to demean any left wing politician. The funny thing is FG and the left will claim to support the tax paying worker but the left get called out if not from a dirt poor low educated family, which says a lot about how FG see workers.

If you don't have any money they call you a begrudger. If you have some money they call you a hypocrite.

Lord Fairlord

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Any leftist politician who comes from a middle class background. You are only allowed have leftist views if you wear a coal sack and live by the side of the road. Much like you can only join FG if you are a spiv.

Boils down to FF/FG types looking to demean any left wing politician. The funny thing is FG and the left will claim to support the tax paying worker but the left get called out if not from a dirt poor low educated family, which says a lot about how FG see workers.

I'm not an FFGer in case anyone is wondering. The issue is that these left wing people invariably push a policy based on a victims vs 'privileged' people who facility societal oppression narrative, while they, in many cases, are themselves 'privileged' by their own standards.
If anyone is interested they should research the Frankfurt School of thought.

mariaalice

sabat wrote: »

Read Tom Wolfe's Radical Chic for the original and best account of the phenomenon:

https://nymag.com/docs/07/05/070529radical_chic.pdf

When I was a teen a long time ago now, we are talking about the late 70s, I knew a few individuals who dressed in docks and wore a keffiyeh and mostly no one took any notice of them, but it really did seem to anger some people its the same sort of things just seem to really irriate people even thoug they are essentially a harmless phenomenon.

The quality of political insults is very poor in Ireland.

yosser hughes

purifol0 wrote: »

The examples mentioned here pale in comparison to our sitting President. Two term Prez Higgins has been a vocal socialist his entire career while profiting greatly from the taxes of the actual workers. Its absolutely amazing if not straight out obscene how much tax money he now trousers while spouting socialist rhetoric. It won't stop when he's out of the big house either, those politicians pensions are really something to behold.

Not forgettting his NUI Galway pension at 19 grand a year - yes he's taking that too:
https://galwaydaily.com/news/president-higgins-still-getting-e19000-nui-galway-pension-while-in-office/

And of course the 300K a year he gets to spend wily nily on entertainment, this was questioned by Catherine Connolly at the Public Accounts Committee a year or two ago.

Now dont get me wrong, he was the best of a bad bunch by quite a bit but still, is the very definition of champagne socialist.

Don't forget his property investment in Galway. He's selling it now.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/landlords-critic-president-higgins-rents-out-house-for-over-2-000-w2jmcmfdg

James Brown

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

I'm not an FFGer in case anyone is wondering. The issue is that these left wing people invariably push a policy based on a victims vs 'privileged' people who facility societal oppression narrative, while they, in many cases, are themselves 'privileged' by their own standards.
If anyone is interested they should research the Frankfurt School of thought.

Agreed however that's not a champagne socialist IMO. You can be from any walk and favour socialist policies.
It is about inequality and privilege, but do you recognise it and act accordingly? That's were the term comes in for me.
Nothing wrong with having wealth and being wealthy.

marieholmfan

yosser hughes wrote: »

Don't forget his property investment in Galway. He's selling it now.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/landlords-critic-president-higgins-rents-out-house-for-over-2-000-w2jmcmfdg

Begrudgery.

yosser hughes

marieholmfan wrote: »

Begrudgery.

Hypocrisy