"Money isn't everything"

Raconteuse

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Anyone working 90 hours a week though, is not struggling to survive. They might be struggling - but that their own choice. Due to living beyond their means, or failing to recognise the reality of their financial position. They can choose not to struggle.

Yeah but bitofabind qualified that. They acknowledged money is damn important when you're on the breadline, but also that the kind of work hours you have to put in for big money isn't worth it either. A balanced look at both perspectives.

lainey_d_123

Lyle Flat Pedigree wrote: »

And let's not forget that even those enjoying "free" healthcare, housing, or education are doing so because somebody else's money paid for it.

Of course money isn't everything but it's damned important and makes life so much easier in many ways. The Beatles were right and it can't buy you love. It can't ensure good health or guarantee friendship. But very often the same people espousing the "money doesn't buy the important things in life" are the same one's moaning about the expense of things, dropping hints for a freebee, and with a take take take attitude.

The OP insists that it's the well off who use the term but it's usually those with less money who seem to want to reassure or convince themselves that money doesn't really matter.

Yes, this is actually also very true. I've known a few people like this (usually wannabe hippy types) and it's maddening.

Acting all high and mighty and above working for 'the man' and yet perfectly happy to use public services, hospitals and other things paid for by taxpayers. Perfectly happy to accept drinks bought for them at the pub without ever buying any back, bum cigarettes/weed off people, ask for lifts everywhere, etc. They never seem to see the hypocrisy in saying money doesn't matter while constantly sponging off other people's hard work.

lainey_d_123

bitofabind wrote: »

Of course money isn’t everything. You usually need to be above the bottom two tiers in Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs to really appreciate that though. As long as you’re struggling with basic needs like personal security, shelter, food, sleep etc, you’re going to think money is pretty damn important.

I’m self aware enough to know that I’m privileged to never have had to worry about it in any real sense. I did the low income jobs but always had my family to fall back on. However the most stressful year of my life was probably when I was working 90 hour weeks with no semblance of work life balance and my mental health fraying at the seams in exchange for a good salary and high bonuses. No hobbies, no love life, no social life and a constant weight on my shoulders.

The pursuit of money alone is a lonely experience when it’s not backed by meaning or a strong value system. It’s empty and it won’t help you to smile or laugh or live a life with integrity.

Yep, that's basically my point. When you're so poor that you can't take those things for granted, money is all you can think about. I haven't been that poor in a few years now, thank God, but I still don't take even the smallest things for granted. I know an unexpectedly high gas bill won't mean having to skip dinners or have to walk 2+ hours to work in the rain at 6am because I can't afford to renew my transport card. Money buys peace of mind and security and I can't imagine anything being more important than that.

ILoveYourVibes

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Anyone working 90 hours a week though, is not struggling to survive. They might be struggling - but that their own choice. Due to living beyond their means, or failing to recognise the reality of their financial position. They can choose not to struggle.

You obviously have never worked for the min wage then trying to support a family after tax.

One eyed Jack

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yep, that's basically my point. When you're so poor that you can't take those things for granted, money is all you can think about.

No, money is all you can think about. You’re trying to apply your own standards to other people, and they just don’t apply. I get your point, but your mindset isn’t nearly as universal as you appear to believe.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Money buys peace of mind and security and I can't imagine anything being more important than that.

Well of course peace of mind is important, security is a bit hit and miss - plenty of people value flexibility over security, so it depends upon whichever is more likely to bring a person peace of mind. Security works for you, flexibility works for me. In that sense I don’t take my current role for granted, but the pay isn’t the motivating factor - the motivation is simply that I enjoy what I do. When or if I don’t enjoy doing it any more, I’ll simply do something else.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You obviously have never worked for the min wage then trying to support a family after tax.

There’s no way you could possibly have determined that from what the poster wrote. The minimum wage in Ireland is soon to be €10.10 an hour -


For someone on the new minimum wage of €10.10 an hour they will have Income tax deductions of €797 ; PRSI €558 and USC €229 – leaving a take-home annual pay of €18,889 or €363 a week.

Minimum Wage Increase in 2020 - Money Guide Ireland

Plenty of people earning minimum wage are providing for their families without struggling.

Graces7

Wise wise words, but some here are on an altogether different wavelength. As you rightly aver. Maybe a generational thing too.

And same old picking and misunderstanding of the basic structure of society, that those who earn more pay more taxes and thus provide services for those who earn less. Not a question of freeloading etc and shows up those who hint at that!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No, money is all you can think about. You’re trying to apply your own standards to other people, and they just don’t apply. I get your point, but your mindset isn’t nearly as universal as you appear to believe.

Well of course peace of mind is important, security is a bit hit and miss - plenty of people value flexibility over security, so it depends upon whichever is more likely to bring a person peace of mind. Security works for you, flexibility works for me. In that sense I don’t take my current role for granted, but the pay isn’t the motivating factor - the motivation is simply that I enjoy what I do. When or if I don’t enjoy doing it any more, I’ll simply do something else.

Plenty of people earning minimum wage are providing for their families without struggling.

Graces7

Then you rethink your entire lifestyle and adjust.

As so many of us on basic pensions have had to do. And still do.

Not easy but the only way to any peace.
And you learn to enjoy different things also

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yep, that's basically my point. When you're so poor that you can't take those things for granted, money is all you can think about. I haven't been that poor in a few years now, thank God, but I still don't take even the smallest things for granted. I know an unexpectedly high gas bill won't mean having to skip dinners or have to walk 2+ hours to work in the rain at 6am because I can't afford to renew my transport card. Money buys peace of mind and security and I can't imagine anything being more important than that.

Graces7

Never met anyone like that . :eek:

Interesting attitude though. Thank you.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yes, this is actually also very true. I've known a few people like this (usually wannabe hippy types) and it's maddening.

Acting all high and mighty and above working for 'the man' and yet perfectly happy to use public services, hospitals and other things paid for by taxpayers. Perfectly happy to accept drinks bought for them at the pub without ever buying any back, bum cigarettes/weed off people, ask for lifts everywhere, etc. They never seem to see the hypocrisy in saying money doesn't matter while constantly sponging off other people's hard work.

Graces7

In what direction though? I grew up like that and it bred a lasting independence and resourcefulness in me that has served me well all my life. And taught me that managing with little money is not a disaster etc. Unless you allow it to be

mariaalice wrote: »

Not being able to rely on parents to provide consistency when someone is a child dose have a profound effect on how someone views money.

Graces7

But that is not what most of us here are talking about; interesting that it has got twisted and assessed totally differently!

Raconteuse wrote: »

Insane wealth yes - it can mess with a person's head.

Financial security instead of barely scraping by though - it's something else causing misery.

Graces7

Come on now yourself! If twisting words is the only way you can make a point!

I have nowwhere said anything re living solely on love. Nothing I have sai d proves L right; how could it!
s point. Only that being terrified all the time re money is a miserable way to live,
Many of us adjust and value what we do have, downsize, etc. And then stop

Anyone on a small pension does this and enjoys what they have.

You are thinking purely in material terms; many of us here are not.

Raconteuse wrote: »

You said money cannot buy them. Far far more to life than health and shelter? Come on now.

The people being all new agey and "I can live solely on love" are really proving Lainey's point. Would that they'd admit it!

gozunda

It might not be everything but it helps pay the fuking bills - everything else is a bonus...

Peatys

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Has anyone ever said this who wasn't spoiled, sheltered and wealthy? It's right up there as one of the most irritating comments someone can make and riles me up every time.

The latest time was a friend of a friend saying it in response to our other friend mentioning possibly going for job change this year for more money.

I think most people with a normal IQ get that it isn't literally 'everything', but this phrase seems to come out of the mouth of people who think anyone who is motivated by money is materialistic and shallow. I have never in my entire life heard anyone who has struggled or been poor say anything like 'money isn't everything'.

I think people who grew up wanting for nothing simply can't comprehend how many basic things they take for granted are totally inaccessible to people on very low incomes. When they hear someone talking about 'money', they think in terms of disposable income - money to buy nice new shoes, or an expensive dinner, or a theatre ticket. They don't think in terms of a secure roof over their head, paying the bills or having some savings in case of an emergency.

As someone who grew up very poor and didn't start to make decent money until I was in my thirties, money represents freedom to me. It gives me options I didn't have before. If I'm having a bad time in my shared flat, I can leave and find another one without worrying about how I'm going to find money for deposit and first rent. If I get a sudden worrying stomach pain, I can go straight to the doctor without worrying about how to find the money. If I get an unexpectedly high bill, it's a minor annoyance rather than a major disaster. I see it as a security blanket and so yes, the more money the better, right up to the point where all your essentials are securely covered with savings in the bank and money to spare.

I've met people who say money doesn't matter and it's better to follow your dreams and I think without exception they have all had mammy and daddy funding them in some way and providing a safety net while they mess around doing their art or music or whatever. They scoff at people who choose careers for the money without even thinking that maybe some people really have no backup and nobody who could dig them out if it all went wrong.

What do you think?

I have been at both ends of the money spectrum. Money brings a sense of ease that brings happiness.

That and pool winning the league.


HON THE POOL,!!!!!!!!?!;+?;+?!++_£56+!!????!?!!?!!!!!!!!!!

Graces7

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The idea that having money causes issues is something poor people tell themselves to make them feel better. It's PC culture and millennial speak.

It is not true.

If you have a lot of money you will be very happy, happier than everyone else.

Interesting and erroneous idea.

And your first sentence is insulting!

AND your idea is not what we are talking about anyways!

Graces7

OK; I am off. Everything has been said at least ten times!

Peace!

JDD

I think you make a valid point. I don't think I've met anyone that has come from a background where money was particularly tight, that has uttered the words "money isn't everything". Even those that have gone on to make lots of money and then downsized a bit to get more of a life balance never offhandedly said "oh, money doesn't motivate me, so that's why I made that decision".

A certain amount of money = security, and that will (and possibly should) motivate you in a work context until you get to whatever your base acceptable level of security is (and it will be different for different people). Sort of like a bell curve of happiness. It's when you raise your base level of security, consciously or unconsciously, to match expectations of your peers that that bell curve starts on it's downward trend.

Obviously those with dependents will have a higher base level, than those without. You might, as a single person, be happy to eat a basic diet, live in a dodgy area and minimize your non-essential outgoings, but you have to feed and clothe your kids and provide them with opportunities, which usually entails making a certain amount of career decisions based on money, until you again get to your base level of security.

The further up the bell curve your life started out on, the less additional happiness money will give you. In fact for some people that were born into families where their parents were well off but unhappy (on the downward side of the bell curve), the more likely they will seek out careers that will make them happier, but will more likely earn them less money than their parents. So while some of it is naivety and the prospect of a safety net if things go wrong, some of it is definitely realizing that making money over and above the base level of security isn't actually going to make you a happier person.

Antares35

We've recently started saving for a house, and we have a small person on the way as well as a wedding (which will be way down the list!). So, although we both have good jobs, we have had to cut our cloth significantly. I've reduced my own disposable income by around 80%, so no takeaways, only essential new clothes/ shoes, and one of the hardest has been cutting back on socialising because so many people in our age group think that spending time together means a 3 course meal followed by drinks etc. Also no more buying sandwiches at lunch, using leftovers etc. Many are habits that I will probably continue! Never did or understood the whole takeaway coffee thing anyway. I don't mind it, because we have end end goal i.e. house in sight, but I couldn't imagine living like this all the time, constantly having to think about money.

The only thing I won't give up is my car. We live too far out from public transport anyway, but to me the money spent represents a freedom away from the regular anti-social behaviour I used to see on the red line, the unreliable service which resulted in being late one or two mornings a week, never having a seat etc.

Money isn't everything but it definitely makes life so much easier because it gives you freedom and choices.

Antares35

JDD wrote: »

I think you make a valid point. I don't think I've met anyone that has come from a background where money was particularly tight, that has uttered the words "money isn't everything". Even those that have gone on to make lots of money and then downsized a bit to get more of a life balance never offhandedly said "oh, money doesn't motivate me, so that's why I made that decision".

A certain amount of money = security, and that will (and possibly should) motivate you in a work context until you get to whatever your base acceptable level of security is (and it will be different for different people). Sort of like a bell curve of happiness. It's when you raise your base level of security, consciously or unconsciously, to match expectations of your peers that that bell curve starts on it's downward trend.

The Motivation theory is an interesting read around this. In it's simple form, we are told there is a hierarchy of needs (the lowest being the basics such as essentials - roof over head, food etc.) all the way up to acceptance by peers, becoming the best version of oneself and all that. The idea is that where a need is not being met, people are motivated to work to meet those needs. Once the need is met, it is no longer a motivating factor and the person then focuses on the next level. Apparently we are programmed to want to ascend the hierarchy.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

Raconteuse

maccored wrote: »

I dont, im older and i dont really care about money. I work a job i like going to, to make sure i can pay my bills but after that i much prefer to enjoy everyday life rather than stress about money. Ive found that in emergencies when i need it, money comes in from somewhere - an extra bit of work, bit of overtime ... whatever. Ive rarely ever been caught short, yet i dont have a bank account full of readies either.

I used to stress over money until i realised its just money and not anything real. Theres always ways to earn a few extra euro when its needed. I think the key is to figure out *if* its actually really needed in the first place

There aren't always ways to earn extra. You've illustrated that you're not in a position of financial struggle - your job covers your essential outgoings. Of course you don't worry about money then - you don't have money worries. Lainey is talking about people who DON'T have enough money for essential outgoings.

And it doesn't take much figuring out as to whether you need the money or not.

One eyed Jack

Antares35 wrote: »

The Motivation theory is an interesting read around this. In it's simple form, we are told there is a hierarchy of needs (the lowest being the basics such as essentials - roof over head, food etc.) all the way up to acceptance by peers, becoming the best version of oneself and all that. The idea is that where a need is not being met, people are motivated to work to meet those needs. Once the need is met, it is no longer a motivating factor and the person then focuses on the next level. Apparently we are programmed to want to ascend the hierarchy.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

From your post I can't tell if you're promoting or disputing Maslows theory to be honest. Even from your own link, it's a theory that's debunked for the unscientific nonsense it is, akin to Operating Thetan levels in Scientology, or as I prefer to call it "How to disappear up one's own arse", also commonly known as self-enlightenment or in Maslows theory "self-actualisation". The modern equivalent for a secular society being "Mindfulness".

From your own link, after they're done pointing out everything wrong wth the theory (see the section on Critical Evaluation), they do make the following observation -

Contemporary research by Tay and Diener (2011) has tested Maslow’s theory by analyzing the data of 60,865 participants from 123 countries, representing every major region of the world. The survey was conducted from 2005 to 2010.

Respondents answered questions about six needs that closely resemble those in Maslow's model: basic needs (food, shelter); safety; social needs (love, support); respect; mastery; and autonomy. They also rated their well-being across three discrete measures: life evaluation (a person's view of his or her life as a whole), positive feelings (day-to-day instances of joy or pleasure), and negative feelings (everyday experiences of sorrow, anger, or stress).

The results of the study support the view that universal human needs appear to exist regardless of cultural differences. However, the ordering of the needs within the hierarchy was not correct.

"Although the most basic needs might get the most attention when you don't have them," Diener explains, "you don't need to fulfill them in order to get benefits [from the others]." Even when we are hungry, for instance, we can be happy with our friends. "They're like vitamins," Diener says about how the needs work independently. "We need them all."

Bold emphasis on the last line is my own.

Antares35

One eyed Jack wrote: »

From your post I can't tell if you're promoting or disputing Maslows theory to be honest. Even from your own link, it's a theory that's debunked for the unscientific nonsense it is, akin to Operating Thetan levels in Scientology, or as I prefer to call it "How to disappear up one's own arse", also commonly known as self-enlightenment or in Maslows theory "self-actualisation". The modern equivalent for a secular society being "Mindfulness".

From your own link, after they're done pointing out everything wrong wth the theory (see the section on Critical Evaluation), they do make the following observation -





Bold emphasis on the last line is my own.

I'm not doing either, I'm saying it is an interesting read (which I stated in my post) and you are free to take it or leave it. I have no interest in engaging in a debate on it's merit

lainey_d_123

Graces7 wrote: »

Never met anyone like that . :eek:

Interesting attitude though. Thank you.

Then maybe you're that person?

I'm all for my taxes helping others but the simple fact is that if everyone chose to do low paid work they enjoyed there would be no money to fund public services, education, etc.

Those who claim they don't need money to be happy never seem to have a problem with taking money from others, directly or indirectly. The same type of person typically views things like the fire service, the health service, primary/secondary education etc. as 'free'. They are not free. Someone has to pay for them, even if it isn't you.

riclad

Some people may be happy just living at home,rent free,
using the free medical service,s .it does not suit everyone .
money helps you to stay healthy, it can be used to pay for private health insurance.
people go bankrupt in america because they cant afford to pay for medical procedures or expensive drug treatments for serious illness .
The first thing they say in american hospitals , when you get in the door,
is have you got health insurance .?
no health insurance ,no treatment .

misterme123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Then maybe you're that person?

I'm all for my taxes helping others but the simple fact is that if everyone chose to do low paid work they enjoyed there would be no money to fund public services, education, etc.

Those who claim they don't need money to be happy never seem to have a problem with taking money from others, directly or indirectly. The same type of person typically views things like the fire service, the health service, primary/secondary education etc. as 'free'. They are not free. Someone has to pay for them, even if it isn't you.

This is not how the jobs market works.

lainey_d_123

Raconteuse wrote: »

There aren't always ways to earn extra. You've illustrated that you're not in a position of financial struggle - your job covers your essential outgoings. Of course you don't worry about money then - you don't have money worries. Lainey is talking about people who DON'T have enough money for essential outgoings.

And it doesn't take much figuring out as to whether you need the money or not.

It's truly amazing how many people are making my point for me without even realising it.

Glibly saying money isn't important and then talking about being able to pay the bills as if that's nothing. Total lack of recognition that for plenty of people it's a constant struggle to pay for basic essentials.

lainey_d_123

misterme123 wrote: »

This is not how the jobs market works.

No, it's how the economy works.

Who exactly do you think is going to fund public services if nobody pays in?

The point is, if everyone took the attitude some people on here have, things just wouldn't function. So many things just taken for granted because they're 'free' at the point of use.

misterme123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

No, it's how the economy works.

Who exactly do you think is going to fund public services if nobody pays in?

The point is, if everyone took the attitude some people on here have, things just wouldn't function. So many things just taken for granted because they're 'free' at the point of use.

It's really not how the economy works. Someone paying more than average income tax can easily have a net negative impact on the economy. And it's not how society works either. Do you think things would function well if everyone prioritised maximising their income? A society with no volunteer workers and no unpaid carers? You doing your job and being able to pay tax is dependent on other people doing their jobs; some of them lower paid and some higher. If there is a shortage of a given type of worker it's a problem, but that's not necessarily connected to how much tax those people pay.

Millionaire only not

Antares35 wrote: »

We've recently started saving for a house, and we have a small person on the way as well as a wedding (which will be way down the list!). So, although we both have good jobs, we have had to cut our cloth significantly. I've reduced my own disposable income by around 80%, so no takeaways, only essential new clothes/ shoes, and one of the hardest has been cutting back on socialising because so many people in our age group think that spending time together means a 3 course meal followed by drinks etc. Also no more buying sandwiches at lunch, using leftovers etc. Many are habits that I will probably continue! Never did or understood the whole takeaway coffee thing anyway. I don't mind it, because we have end end goal i.e. house in sight, but I couldn't imagine living like this all the time, constantly having to think about money.

The only thing I won't give up is my car. We live too far out from public transport anyway, but to me the money spent represents a freedom away from the regular anti-social behaviour I used to see on the red line, the unreliable service which resulted in being late one or two mornings a week, never having a seat etc.

Money isn't everything but it definitely makes life so much easier because it gives you freedom and choices.

A word of advice a house and kids aren’t everything either ! But u have to do it or else they’d call u abnormal - lol

maccored

Raconteuse wrote: »

There aren't always ways to earn extra. You've illustrated that you're not in a position of financial struggle - your job covers your essential outgoings. Of course you don't worry about money then - you don't have money worries. Lainey is talking about people who DON'T have enough money for essential outgoings.

And it doesn't take much figuring out as to whether you need the money or not.

so glad you know my life so well. I have been in the position of not having enough for the essentials - though you might need to change the thread title if your talking about not having enough to live on. Though to be fair, even when I was living rough the idea that money was everything still wouldn't have been of any help. when you need to survive you cant waste your time blaming money.

Antares35

Millionaire only not wrote: »

A word of advice a house and kids aren’t everything either ! But u have to do it or else they’d call u abnormal - lol

I know that. In my opinion, nothing on it's own is "everything" but a family is what we both want, and obviously a roof over that family's head too! I've led anything but a normal life to date