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concern for child

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    #62
    thenightman
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    My younger sister is a dance teacher and briefly worked in a dance school in Dublin. The owner hadn't bothered Garda vetting any employees, had no child protection policy or anything like that that any responsible business owner who's staff came into contact with children should have (even as a self protection measure for the business in case something awful did happen) so she stopped working from them. They also employed teenage girls on the cheap, and more than one left after inappropriate harassment from a male adult staff member.

    I wouldn't be leaving my child in the care of any business unless I saw proof of Garda vetting of staff and a child protection policy. OP if you're child is uncomfortable with the guys presence, that would be enough for me to pull them out of the class for good.


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    #63
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    thenightman wrote: »
    I wouldn't be leaving my child in the care of any business unless I saw proof of Garda vetting of staff and a child protection policy.

    Thats a bit ott and not practical, what about school/creches etc or are you making an assumption that their staff are all garda vetted and have the appropriate child welfare training etc.

    I think you are putting way too much stock in garda vetting and what it can actually alert for/protect against.

    Vetting law is the law, that goes without saying.
    But we'd be better to put our energies into making sure we are raising a generation of children who are confident and educated around these things, instead of demanding to see a bit of paper.


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    #64
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    I didn't say anyone was guilty. And that girl is not guilty so why should she leave. But the man has no reason to be there during the class. And there is always the potential. He is making the girl uncomfortable anyway, that should be reason enough to have him leave.

    So if my presence is making you feel uncomfortable for whatever reason, I have to leave?


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    #65
    cannotlogin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭cannotlogin


    I understand that people have to look after their kids but it's awful that a man seemingly only there to help with equipment who appears to do nothing other than me on his phone, gets this level of scrutiny. If there was ever an emergency etc., surely a second person being there is positive.

    There is zero indication he has done anything wrong. He is in full view of his partner and all the children. Unreal.

    No wonder so many men are reluctant to become primary school teachers etc.


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    #66
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,177 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    vetted or unvetted, an adult male has no business in a room of young girls dowing a class unless he is instructing or some way involved. He should be waiting in the car or somewhere off the premises. Loitering about the room is not acceptable.
    For God's sake, you're totally over reacting.
    What if it was a woman? Is that OK?
    He's probably roped into carrying stuff in and would rather be anywhere else in the world than helping his girlfriend.
    Also, he may be there at the request of his girlfriend.
    She's exposing herself to vulnerability if she's alone with a class.
    A second person as a witness is no harm for her, provided the 2 of them are there all the time.
    Say a kid tumbled and said the other kid pushed her. It's safer having a second witness there for the teachers sake.
    Your earlier post is quite hysteria ridden tbh.

    To thine own self be true



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    #67
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,177 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    And to the OP, I'd say, it's a valid concern for your daughter that she feels uncomfortable with the guy but it's how you approach it is key.
    Is she shy or embarrassed for others to see her dance?
    You need to have the conversation with her as to what she's uncomfortable with and make a decision from there but if this guy is there as a helper/independent accompaniment then that's the set up in that class and you may need to go elsewhere.

    To thine own self be true



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    #68
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Jaelyn Melodic Armadillo wrote: »
    Thats a bit ott and not practical, what about school/creches etc or are you making an assumption that their staff are all garda vetted and have the appropriate child welfare training etc.

    I think you are putting way too much stock in garda vetting and what it can actually alert for/protect against.

    Someone said earlier that garda vetting is only shows that a person doesn't have a conviction, so effectively it's useless if they've done something and haven't been caught. That's all very true, but it does take those out of the net that do have convictions, so a business whose job is dealing with minors are taking preventative measures, they can't do much more than that.

    As an aside, in your whataboutery above.... I have to be garda vetted as a teacher, it's a condition of being registered on the teaching council. Every time you move school you have to be vetted again. No vetting, no registration. No registration, no job.

    We all had to do child protection training and the school has a child safety statement. Actually my school had an inspection last year and the child safety statement wasn't on the wall at the entrance and the inspectors went through the principal for a short cut. They made him go and print it straight away and put it on display. You might just think that's pen pushing etc, but child safety is taken seriously

    All of the creches that have taken in our students on work placement have insisted on garda vetting for them before they could step foot in the place, so I'm gonna assume if they wanted it for a TY student that they insist on it for all their employees.

    An employer in that industry doesn't have a leg to stand on if something untoward happens a child on their premises and the person involved doesn't have garda vetting or child safety training done, because the employer didn't require vetting or ensure safety training was completed.


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    #69
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,510 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Everyone assuming this is just girls - surely there are boys there as well?
    How does the OP know this guy is there all the time in the background playing on his phone? Is she there all the whole time as well or is this anecdotal evidence from her daughter?
    More questions than answers about this - but damn it's hard to be a man in this day and age when everyone is suspecting you of being a child abuser because you know there is 0.0001% chance you are that person


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    #70
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Someone said earlier that garda vetting is only shows that a person doesn't have a conviction, so effectively it's useless if they've done something and haven't been caught. That's all very true, but it does take those out of the net that do have convictions, so a business whose job is dealing with minors are taking preventative measures, they can't do much more than that.

    As an aside, in your whataboutery above.... I have to be garda vetted as a teacher, it's a condition of being registered on the teaching council. Every time you move school you have to be vetted again. No vetting, no registration. No registration, no job.

    We all had to do child protection training and the school has a child safety statement. Actually my school had an inspection last year and the child safety statement wasn't on the wall at the entrance and the inspectors went through the principal for a short cut. They made him go and print it straight away and put it on display. You might just think that's pen pushing etc, but child safety is taken seriously

    All of the creches that have taken in our students on work placement have insisted on garda vetting for them before they could step foot in the place, so I'm gonna assume if they wanted it for a TY student that they insist on it for all their employees.

    An employer in that industry doesn't have a leg to stand on if something untoward happens a child on their premises and the person involved doesn't have garda vetting or child safety training done, because the employer didn't require vetting or ensure safety training was completed.
    If anything happens to a child in a creche, the employer won't have a leg to stand on, vetting, training or not.


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    #71
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,554 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I think you need to talk to you daughter about this.
    It may be a serious issue or something very minor or it could be something like her friends think his eye brows are weird.
    Is the class mixed.
    I know in some clubs and organisations they like to have a mixed of genders when supervising children, teenagers.


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    #72
    Die Hard 2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Die Hard 2019


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    You could write a letter to the garda vetting authorities and express a concern that you are worried that there is a potentially unvetted adult male with access to children.

    reaslistically, he has no business in there while there are children there. He should be waiting somewhere else and move the gear in and out when there is no-one in the room before and after the class. It is unacceptable that he would be there looking on when there is no need for him to be. Can't be too careful these days.
    Adult male ! Omg run!!!


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    #73
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Does someone who is not interacting with the kids and just moving props around need to be garda vetted


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    #74
    Die Hard 2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Die Hard 2019


    Still waters wrote: »
    Does someone who is not interacting with the kids and just moving props around need to be garda vetted

    He might be vetted for a we know. The chances are he would pass but that would mean be just hasn't been caught yet,


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    #75
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,510 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Die Hard 2019 wrote: »
    He might be vetted for a we know. The chances are he would pass but that would mean be just hasn't been caught yet,

    Get the lynch mob ready


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    #76
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Die Hard 2019 wrote: »
    He might be vetted for a we know. The chances are he would pass but that would mean be just hasn't been caught yet,

    :rolleyes:


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    #77
    Die Hard 2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Die Hard 2019


    Jaelyn Melodic Armadillo wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Donno what that's about; there is very little chance that he wouldn't pass Garda vetting if his partner is a dance teacher and has no issue with him waiting around and passing Garda vetting is only a measure of his ability to avoid detection.

    If people are assuming innocent men are predators then there is little we can do to prevent it. It's impossible to prove a negatitive and innocent men are not responsable for wierdos behaviour any more than innocent women are. ( Or innocent non binary people)


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    #78
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭victor8600


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    What kind of lesson does that teach the child? Working on the assumption that he has done nothing wrong and that the child only doesn't like the look of him, are we really suggesting that the right course of action is telling this guy to hide? Will mammy be able to always get the men the child doesn't like the look of to go and hide?

    Your answer is an over-generalisation. But since your rebuke to my suggestion got many likes, I guess I have to reply. The OP says that the guy "sits there on his phone in the background near the stage. My child has made me aware that she is uneasy about him always being there."

    This particular girl says that she is uneasy about the guy being there. Should we disregard her feelings completely and tell her to quit the class if she does not like where the guy sits?

    I propose a reasonable alternative -- ask the teacher if her partner has to sit in that particular spot and if it is possible for him to sit, say 10 paces away from the stage just to make the girl more comfortable. Is that mollycoddling? No, it is a compromise and it's a kind of lesson more people need to learn.


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    #79
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Uneasy about a harmless fella harmlessly sitting there on his phone? Whole thing smacks of misandry, and trolling


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    #80
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,554 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Uneasy about a harmless fella harmlessly sitting there on his phone? Whole thing smacks of misandry, and trolling

    I do know some people get into this habit when they are younger.
    They are of course situations when the person have reasons to feel uneasy but some of the reasons I've heard for making them uneasy were things about the persons appearance,etc. I think it's important the OP finds out what the reason is.


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    #81
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,510 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    victor8600 wrote: »
    This particular girl says that she is uneasy about the guy being there. Should we disregard her feelings completely and tell her to quit the class if she does not like where the guy sits?

    No you shouldn't disregard her "feelings" but you should delve more into what is it that makes her feel uneasy or as someone else has pointed is there an underlying ulterior motive. Kids are very good at playing people against each other to obtain what they want.
    It could be as simple as she is not interested in the dance classes but the mother insists she goes and she is looking for an out
    Never underestimate the subterfuge of kids - they are not always that stupid that they don't know anything.


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    #82
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Uneasy about a harmless fella harmlessly sitting there on his phone? Whole thing smacks of misandry, and trolling

    Well, a child can have irrational feelings and made-up fears. Especially with a nervous parent like the OP:
    a non mouse wrote: »
    Now I don't want to go the the Gardai about this ...


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    #83
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,510 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Interesting that 5 hours later the OP hasn't bothered to respond after getting an anonymous account
    Smells more of trolling to me.


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    #84
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Uneasy about a harmless fella harmlessly sitting there on his phone? Whole thing smacks of misandry, and trolling

    It's not misandry and trolling. The child has said she's uneasy, it could be completely unfounded/a pack of lies to get out of dance lessons or there could be something more to it. The mother needs to ask why she's uneasy to find out which it is. And even if the child is uneasy it could be because of something totally innocent like the guy could be just one of those people that maintains eye contact for a second too long where it becomes a bit uncomfortable and the child has picked up on this, or he could just be at the back scrolling through his phone for an hour and ignoring all that is going on and it's just the child that's being paranoid. Parent needs to talk to the child and get some more information.


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    #85
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭victor8600


    fritzelly wrote: »
    ...Never underestimate the subterfuge of kids - they are not always that stupid that they don't know anything.

    Believe me I do not! Suppose the dance teacher embraces my suggestion and her partner sits out of sight of the girl. If the girl has no complaints now -- was this small compromise not worth it?

    But I am fully aware that what is more likely to happen is that the girl will find another thing to complain because she probably wants to quit the class.


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    #86
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    God help that man - he’s been accused, insinuated about, told he shouldnt be there and then given a barring order of 10 foot from every female child and a lynch lunching mob organised against him. Him - he’s just trying to help his gf/earn a bit of cash and sitting quietly in the background. Just shows how the fear-mongering and rumour mill can ruin lives and destroy businesses. Congrats OP - you don’t need a conviction to ruin a man - just a ‘feeling’ - uninvestigated of course.Asking your child and parenting would be far too reasonable and far too much effort. Its far easier to help destroy someone; well done. .


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    #87
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Die Hard 2019 wrote: »
    Donno what that's about
    Die Hard 2019 wrote: »
    but that would mean be just hasn't been caught yet,

    So the only possible reason he could pass vetting is because he hasn't been caught yet????

    Or maybe he might pass vetting because he hasn't done anything wrong!

    OP is overzealous at best and would likely be laughed out a garda station with this. If OP has concerns for their child then they need to dig more into this with their child to find out if there's a reason for it.

    It will get to the point where parents can't even drop into their kids classes/hobbies with the level a hand wringing and finger pointing by some.


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    #88
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭victor8600


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    ....Parent needs to talk to the child and get some more information.

    Not sure about this. If the parent is like the OP, they may ask leading questions like "Do you feel uneasy because the guy looks at you inappropriately?" , "Did he touch you?" and so on. Do you know that a child would normally answer what a child thinks the parent wants to hear?

    The child might have invented the lie about being uneasy around the guy to get out of the classes, but if pressed for more information, she may feel the need to re-enforce the lie with more lies.


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    #89
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Ask the instructor is the guy garda vetted.

    Either way, you're within your rights to take your child out of the class if she's not comfortable.


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    #90
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,510 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    antix80 wrote: »
    Ask the instructor is the guy garda vetted.

    Either way, you're within your rights to take your child out of the class if she's not comfortable.

    Thinly veiled attack on the man with no evidence of wrong doing


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    #91
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    victor8600 wrote: »
    Not sure about this. If the parent is like the OP, they may ask leading questions like "Do you feel uneasy because the guy looks at you inappropriately?" , "Did he touch you?" and so on. Do you know that a child would normally answer what a child thinks the parent wants to hear?

    The child might have invented the lie about being uneasy around the guy to get out of the classes, but if pressed for more information, she may feel the need to re-enforce the lie with more lies.

    Well how do you propose she resolves it then? Give her some credit for being adult and being able to figure out from the information she gets if the child is lying or not.

    I'm well aware that children lie. I'm a teacher, I encounter it on a daily basis.


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