General Election 2020 - See MOD note in First Post

Cabaal

mooseknunkle wrote: »

It's a shame that people refer to Sinn Fein members as "shinners" and "provos" ,how about just calling them politicians or election candidates like the rest of them?

Agree, its childish and people should be having an adult conversation.

But equally I'd like SF followers to stop using the term "Westbrit", its childish and bordering on racist as they try suggest an Irish person is actually english by using the term. Such a term is out of touch with Ireland of today,

I've seen SF councillors use it

Quigs Snr

mooseknunkle wrote: »

It's a shame that people refer to Sinn Fein members as "shinners" and "provos" ,how about just calling them politicians or election candidates like the rest of them?

Because for a large portion of the Irish electorate, to suggest that one can be a candidate for Sinn Fein and not implicitly support the actions past and present of the IRA is an intellectual leap of faith too far. We are not far enough away from the days of Adams and McGuiness for that to have changed.

For me, Sinn Fein are good at local politics. Up to a point (recent failure to score into a supposedly open goal at council budgeting notwithstanding).. but nationally its going to be a long time before that stain washes off if it ever does.

And i genuinely mean it when i say that it is a shame. Cullinane has been by a mile the best of our representatives in this cycle. I hope he gets in. My wife (usually FG) told me yesterday that she is going to vote for him. I have no party affiliation myself but I also remember being the only Irish kid in a rough part of London whilst people who Sinn Fein have failed to condemn were going around blowing up pubs and what not and being spat at on the way to school. Tends to stay with you.

curmudgeonly

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Because for a large portion of the Irish electorate, to suggest that one can be a candidate for Sinn Fein and not implicitly support the actions past and present of the IRA is an intellectual leap of faith too far. We are not far enough away from the days of Adams and McGuiness for that to have changed.

For me, Sinn Fein are good at local politics. Up to a point (recent failure to score into a supposedly open goal at council budgeting notwithstanding).. but nationally its going to be a long time before that stain washes off if it ever does.

And i genuinely mean it when i say that it is a shame. Cullinane has been by a mile the best of our representatives in this cycle. I hope he gets in. My wife (usually FG) told me yesterday that she is going to vote for him. I have no party affiliation myself but I also remember being the only Irish kid in a rough part of London whilst people who Sinn Fein have failed to condemn were going around blowing up pubs and what not and being spat at on the way to school. Tends to stay with you.

I wish I could like this twice!

Crusty Blaa

What's Kieran Hartley been up to? Seems to be very quiet in the media but yet is 7/2 to win a seat. Has he been knocking on doors yet?

Crusty Blaa

Crusty Blaa wrote: »

What's Kieran Hartley been up to? Seems to be very quiet in the media but yet is 7/2 to win a seat. Has he been knocking on doors yet?

Ignore above.
*Just seen an article saying he is no longer running.

mooseknunkle

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Because for a large portion of the Irish electorate, to suggest that one can be a candidate for Sinn Fein and not implicitly support the actions past and present of the IRA is an intellectual leap of faith too far. We are not far enough away from the days of Adams and McGuiness for that to have changed.

For me, Sinn Fein are good at local politics. Up to a point (recent failure to score into a supposedly open goal at council budgeting notwithstanding).. but nationally its going to be a long time before that stain washes off if it ever does.

And i genuinely mean it when i say that it is a shame. Cullinane has been by a mile the best of our representatives in this cycle. I hope he gets in. My wife (usually FG) told me yesterday that she is going to vote for him. I have no party affiliation myself but I also remember being the only Irish kid in a rough part of London whilst people who Sinn Fein have failed to condemn were going around blowing up pubs and what not and being spat at on the way to school. Tends to stay with you.

I have no party affiliation either but i have a passing interest in politics like most people and i like to keep up to date on what's going on in Waterford and across Ireland,I watched the debate last night and kept hearing Michael Martin saying we need change, FF are not change ,the past 4 years we have had FG/FF in government, and what looks like the next few years will be FF/FG or FF leading with others,they both have said they will under no circumstance go into government with SF.

Here we have one party that is responsible for the biggest financial crash in the states history,and the other one responsible for the worst health and homelessness crisis we have ever seen,if SF got into government what could they do that would be any worse than what FG/FF have already done over the last 40 years?,I dont know but all i can think of is they are scared of SF getting into power because they might actually do some good and improve things,whats the worst that can happen that hasn't already happened,SF are a change,FG/FF are both a cheek on the same arse,that's not a change.

Personally id like to live in a society where there is no such thing as political parties,a society where we elected people on their ability to do the job,for example,the minister of health open it up as a job application and let people across the world apply for it,get it down to let's say 10 people and we the people are the employers so we decide who we want,do that for each role and hopefully we end up with the best and brightest all working together for the greater good of the country. Complete fantasy i know ,and will never happen.

Now all we have is each party bickering and scoring points off each other,none of them are working for the country,the whole political system needs to be changed we need people to hold their hands up and say look we failed let's change things,because forever more its going to be rinse and repeat either Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil.

Quigs Snr

mooseknunkle wrote: »

I have no party affiliation either but i have a passing interest in politics like most people and i like to keep up to date on what's going on in Waterford and across Ireland,I watched the debate last night and kept hearing Michael Martin saying we need change, FF are not change ,the past 4 years we have had FG/FF in government, and what looks like the next few years will be FF/FG or FF leading with others,they both have said they will under no circumstance go into government with SF.

Here we have one party that is responsible for the biggest financial crash in the states history,and the other one responsible for the worst health and homelessness crisis we have ever seen,if SF got into government what could they do that would be any worse than what FG/FF have already done over the last 40 years?,I dont know but all i can think of is they are scared of SF getting into power because they might actually do some good and improve things,whats the worst that can happen that hasn't already happened,SF are a change,FG/FF are both a cheek on the same arse,that's not a change.

Personally id like to live in a society where there is no such thing as political parties,a society where we elected people on their ability to do the job,for example,the minister of health open it up as a job application and let people across the world apply for it,get it down to let's say 10 people and we the people are the employers so we decide who we want,do that for each role and hopefully we end up with the best and brightest all working together for the greater good of the country. Complete fantasy i know ,and will never happen.

Now all we have is each party bickering and scoring points off each other,none of them are working for the country,the whole political system needs to be changed we need people to hold their hands up and say look we failed let's change things,because forever more its going to be rinse and repeat either Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil.

I dont disagree with that. I think a FF or FG coalition with SF would be an interesting experiment.

hardybuck

mooseknunkle wrote: »

I have no party affiliation either but i have a passing interest in politics like most people and i like to keep up to date on what's going on in Waterford and across Ireland,I watched the debate last night and kept hearing Michael Martin saying we need change, FF are not change ,the past 4 years we have had FG/FF in government, and what looks like the next few years will be FF/FG or FF leading with others,they both have said they will under no circumstance go into government with SF.

Here we have one party that is responsible for the biggest financial crash in the states history,and the other one responsible for the worst health and homelessness crisis we have ever seen,if SF got into government what could they do that would be any worse than what FG/FF have already done over the last 40 years?,I dont know but all i can think of is they are scared of SF getting into power because they might actually do some good and improve things,whats the worst that can happen that hasn't already happened,SF are a change,FG/FF are both a cheek on the same arse,that's not a change.

Personally id like to live in a society where there is no such thing as political parties,a society where we elected people on their ability to do the job,for example,the minister of health open it up as a job application and let people across the world apply for it,get it down to let's say 10 people and we the people are the employers so we decide who we want,do that for each role and hopefully we end up with the best and brightest all working together for the greater good of the country. Complete fantasy i know ,and will never happen.

Now all we have is each party bickering and scoring points off each other,none of them are working for the country,the whole political system needs to be changed we need people to hold their hands up and say look we failed let's change things,because forever more its going to be rinse and repeat either Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil.

Would you be happy with a SF Minister for Finance needing to clear decisions with his/her Ard Chomhairle which contains members who live outside the country, and some of whom aren't elected?

mooseknunkle

hardybuck wrote: »

Would you be happy with a SF Minister for Finance needing to clear decisions with his/her Ard Chomhairle which contains members who live outside the country, and some of whom aren't elected?

Ive no idea what you're on about,but would it not be the same with the current minister who probably needs to clear things with Germany or Brussels before he makes decisions ?

joe40

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Because for a large portion of the Irish electorate, to suggest that one can be a candidate for Sinn Fein and not implicitly support the actions past and present of the IRA is an intellectual leap of faith too far. We are not far enough away from the days of Adams and McGuiness for that to have changed.

For me, Sinn Fein are good at local politics. Up to a point (recent failure to score into a supposedly open goal at council budgeting notwithstanding).. but nationally its going to be a long time before that stain washes off if it ever does.

And i genuinely mean it when i say that it is a shame. Cullinane has been by a mile the best of our representatives in this cycle. I hope he gets in. My wife (usually FG) told me yesterday that she is going to vote for him. I have no party affiliation myself but I also remember being the only Irish kid in a rough part of London whilst people who Sinn Fein have failed to condemn were going around blowing up pubs and what not and being spat at on the way to school. Tends to stay with you.

I take your point and obviously a lot of people feel that way but it has been over 20 years since the gfa. The IRA don't exist, none of the current Sinn Fein leadership have connection with period.
20 years after ww2 European countries were able to form the EEC.
20 years after the civil war Fianna Fail were in government.
How much time is needed.
If I supported Sinn Fein policy I would vote Sinn Fein.
Frankly the way Leo and Michael Martin talked about Sinn Fein not been worthy coalition parties may make me vote for them and 2 are running in my constituency.

hardybuck

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Ive no idea what you're on about,but would it not be the same with the current minister who probably needs to clear things with Germany or Brussels before he makes decisions ?

Absolutely not, no.

The SF Ard Chomhairle is it's national executive. It's responsible for day to day operations, setting overall policy and implementing policy.

It's members are a mixture of elected officials and activists from this country and from Northern Ireland.

This sets SF apart from other parties, and is one of the key reasons why the main parties have ruled out working with them.

So again, would you be happy with SF Ministers consulting with people from the North on our national affairs?

hardybuck

joe40 wrote: »

I take your point and obviously a lot of people feel that way but it has been over 20 years since the gfa. The IRA don't exist, none of the current Sinn Fein leadership have connection with period.
20 years after ww2 European countries were able to form the EEC.
20 years after the civil war Fianna Fail were in government.
How much time is needed.
If I supported Sinn Fein policy I would vote Sinn Fein.
Frankly the way Leo and Michael Martin talked about Sinn Fein not been worthy coalition parties may make me vote for them and 2 are running in my constituency.

The IRA don't exist?

The current leadership don't have connection with the period?

Are you sure!?

Harry Palmr

Sinn Fein's biggest block to power is Northern Ireland, they need to divorce themselves from SF in the 'wee six' but that'll never happen of course.

marlin vs

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Sinn Fein's biggest block to power is Northern Ireland, they need to divorce themselves from SF in the 'wee six' but that'll never happen of course.

Why should they, we have 32 counties on this Island and Sinn Féin are the only party that represent all counties.The other parties are like ostRICes berrying their heads in the sand with no one to represent the people of our whole country.

robtri

marlin vs wrote: »

Why should they, we have 32 counties on this Island and Sinn Féin are the only party that represent all counties.The other parties are like ostRICes berrying their heads in the sand with no one to represent the people of our whole country.

SF operate in all 32 counties but they sure as hell don't represent all 32 or its peoples.

marlin vs

6 more than the rest of them.

hardybuck

marlin vs wrote: »

Why should they, we have 32 counties on this Island and Sinn Féin are the only party that represent all counties.The other parties are like ostRICes berrying their heads in the sand with no one to represent the people of our whole country.

We won't ever be able to have a United Ireland if we can't acknowledge the lives of the Irishmen who served in the RIC.

marlin vs

[IMG][/img] Can someone read this for me.

marlin vs

Sorry for it being so big.

marlin vs

Stuffed in my letter box and not the decency to knock at the door.

Harry Palmr

Sorry to have missed you.

friendlyfun

Cabaal wrote: »

Agree, its childish and people should be having an adult conversation.

But equally I'd like SF followers to stop using the term "Westbrit", its childish and bordering on racist as they try suggest an Irish person is actually english by using the term. Such a term is out of touch with Ireland of today,

I've seen SF councillors use it

Racist bit of a stretch. It's merely a designation for people who behave like they're actually British. Look at Flanagan, Leo, wanting to commemorate an organisation responsible for Bloody Sunday in Croke Park. Then Leo given is unwanted opinions on Harry and Megan. What next? Asking Palestinians to commemorate fallen Israeli soldiers?

Crusty Blaa

Money going on Shanahan to take the 4th seat. 6/4 now. Mulligan dropped out to 5/1 early in the week but back to 3/1.

AdMMM

Worth noting that as little as €50 would be enough to move the odds here. Wouldn't be surprised if he had a bet on himself.

debok

marlin vs wrote: »

Stuffed in my letter box and not the decency to knock at the door.

Knocked at my door yesterday. Were you aggressively standing in the window ?

hardybuck

friendlyfun wrote: »

Racist bit of a stretch. It's merely a designation for people who behave like they're actually British. Look at Flanagan, Leo, wanting to commemorate an organisation responsible for Bloody Sunday in Croke Park. Then Leo given is unwanted opinions on Harry and Megan. What next? Asking Palestinians to commemorate fallen Israeli soldiers?

And how do you think that'd make the 103,000 British people living in Ireland feel - welcome?

Imagine if we used terms that were derogatory to Polish people for example. At the very least it's xenophobic behaviour.

While the likes of Pearse Doherty appears to be very sharp and able, he also really lets himself down when he calls FG Ministers 'posh boys and girls'. It demeans him and I wonder does he feel the need to try and generate headlines in the tabloids.

friendlyfun

Can anyone explain to me why there is two cardiac campaigners? Surely Matt Shanahan obviates the need for Bernadette Philips? I honestly think movement would be better if it wasn't attached to particular politicians.

friendlyfun

hardybuck wrote: »

And how do you think that'd make the 103,000 British people living in Ireland feel - welcome?

Imagine if we used terms that were derogatory to Polish people for example. At the very least it's xenophobic behaviour.

While the likes of Pearse Doherty appears to be very sharp and able, he also really lets himself down when he calls FG Ministers 'posh boys and girls'. It demeans him and I wonder does he feel the need to try and generate headlines in the tabloids.

Correct me now if I'm wrong, but didn't Leo say something about Pearse wearing a balaclava straight to his face in the Dáil? You seem to have a selective memory. FG ministers are overwhelmingly from posh schools though. They all hail from privately educated boarding schools like Gonzaga, Blackrock, Presentation, they come from fairly cosseted backgrounds and will never have to endure the suffering many people in Ireland have to face. They could be called worse for doing sweet f all for sitting on the worst homeless and health crisis in this countries history.

Gardner

friendlyfun wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me why there is two cardiac campaigners? Surely Matt Shanahan obviates the need for Bernadette Philips? I honestly think movement would be better if it wasn't attached to particular politicians.

Because there is now 3 different groups! Matt is a careerist and basically will jump ship to FG or FF if he gets in while Bernadette would be totally the opposite and would have the campaign at heart (excuse the pun). personally 24/7 is probably about 5th in my priority list when i'm considering who to vote for.

hardybuck

friendlyfun wrote: »

It has nothing to do with the British living here. It has every thing to do with blueshirts playing with revisionist history. All traditions cherished the same my bollocks. Leo prancing around and gloating over Harry and Megan. Embarrassing stuff. This Ireland not the UK.

What it is is a slur that associates British as a negative thing. That's xenophobia.

It's not becoming of an elected official, definitely not appropriate for anyone who has aspirations of being in Government, and would really alienate anyone in Unionist community that we might want to share a 32 counties with in the future.