General Election 2020 - See MOD note in First Post

jmcc

hardybuck wrote: »

Mary Lou McDonald has been absolutely scuttled by Miriam O'Callahan on the Paul Quinn questions in the RTE debate.

Light entertainment presenter (O'Callaghan) with a brother on the FF frontbench tries to scuttle SF? There's a surprise!

Regards...jmcc

friendlyfun

With all the his talk of DLS men are we talking about hurling or politics.

Sprites

DLS_75 wrote: »

I’ll bite.

They were in the past.

Are you telling me that if your back was against the wall you’d give money to the tax man before putting food on your family’s table?

I wouldn't take money from my customers and employees telling them it was for the tax man and then keep it. It wasnt his money to keep. What I might do is curb my personal spending and adjust my lifestyle to suit my new circumstances, that might save a few bob. Also, I might have a second thought for my employees and actually give them a little heads up before I leave them turn up for work one morning to find the locks changed on the premises and they can't gain entry, and not even a phone call from myself about it when I was fully aware this would happen. But at least I'd still be driving around in my luxury vehicle, in my designer clothes, living at my posh address and generally keeping up the appearances a "successful" business man must.

BQQ

Nypd wrote: »

Anyone else feel that SF have written a cheque they can’t cash ?
Lots of promises made that I feel can’t be followed up.
Easy make promises when you’re sitting third in the polls not so easy when you’re sitting first.
Which party will do a U turn and form a government with them ?

Their manifesto is costed by the dept of finance, as is FG’s
Not so sure about FF though

God help us all if we vote them back in to finish us off
Not even the troika will save us then

Jamie2k9

BQQ wrote: »

Their manifesto is costed by the dept of finance, as is FG’s
Not so sure about FF though

God help us all if we vote them back in to finish us off
Not even the troika will save us then

Costed and reality isn’t the same. There is already one or two gaps in it and Dep of Fin couldn’t quantify capital loss if some of measures were implemented. This applies to all parties.

friendlyfun

DLS_75 wrote: »

Eddie actually managed both players back in the day. We’re a proud club but some have done more for us than others.

Is this all about hurling/soccer or actually about politics?

hardybuck

jmcc wrote: »

Light entertainment presenter (O'Callaghan) with a brother on the FF frontbench tries to scuttle SF? There's a surprise!

Regards...jmcc

In fairness MLM is playing with the big boys now and I think the change of setting showed.

She was asked identical questions the day before, when she claimed the SF Minister hadn't said what the boy's mother complained of.

She stuttered badly and had to retract her statement from the previous day. I'm surprised she was caught out so badly.

hardybuck

Sprites wrote: »

I wouldn't take money from my customers and employees telling them it was for the tax man and then keep it. It wasnt his money to keep. What I might do is curb my personal spending and adjust my lifestyle to suit my new circumstances, that might save a few bob. Also, I might have a second thought for my employees and actually give them a little heads up before I leave them turn up for work one morning to find the locks changed on the premises and they can't gain entry, and not even a phone call from myself about it when I was fully aware this would happen. But at least I'd still be driving around in my luxury vehicle, in my designer clothes, living at my posh address and generally keeping up the appearances a "successful" business man must.

Did he build the new house in the same time period?

Gardner

Sprites wrote: »

I wouldn't take money from my customers and employees telling them it was for the tax man and then keep it. It wasnt his money to keep. What I might do is curb my personal spending and adjust my lifestyle to suit my new circumstances, that might save a few bob. Also, I might have a second thought for my employees and actually give them a little heads up before I leave them turn up for work one morning to find the locks changed on the premises and they can't gain entry, and not even a phone call from myself about it when I was fully aware this would happen. But at least I'd still be driving around in my luxury vehicle, in my designer clothes, living at my posh address and generally keeping up the appearances a "successful" business man must.

SPOT ON

BBM77

Nypd wrote: »

No not all
Can’t help but feel SF didn’t foresee their current success tho, if they thought they would have led the polls they surely would have ran more candidates.
Have they set themselves up for a massive fall.

How real is it though? It is just in polls. Polls can be done to give the answer you want. The media seem to like to talk SF up in general elections. But when election day comes they usually don’t make much in the way of gains.

Nypd

BBM77 wrote: »

How real is it though? It is just in polls. Polls can be done to give the answer you want. The media seem to like to talk SF up in general elections. But when election day comes they usually don’t make much in the way of gains.

That’s also very very true

hardybuck

SF can often seem like a good idea, until people scratch under the surface and don't like what's there.

They keep ending up in these situations where the criminality, and their defence of it, drags them down.

curmudgeonly

BQQ wrote: »

Their manifesto is costed by the dept of finance, as is FG’s
Not so sure about FF though

God help us all if we vote them back in to finish us off
Not even the troika will save us then

Costed is a very loose term in this instance, what they have essentially done is ask the Department how much is potentially there to spend,and then spent that amount.
There is NO regard taken to what knock on effects might do to the economy these steps might have.

So no they are not costed just barely affordable in year one.

Cabaal

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Costed is a very loose term in this instance, what they have essentially done is ask the Department how much is potentially there to spend,and then spent that amount.
There is NO regard taken to what knock on effects might do to the economy these steps might have.

So no they are not costed just barely affordable in year one.

Spot on,
Increase taxes on business can very easily have a negative impact on business startup and existing business, a drop in these business can cause tax take to fall.

if for example SF were to increase corp tax, at face value you think higher tax = more money. But it can just as easily result in less corps setting up in Ireland.

Taxing people above a certain amount can encourage these people to move their funds outside of Ireland to avoid such tax,

While lots of people think this is wrong if you ask the avg joe on the street if they could legally pay less tax, would they like to pay less tax..... I'd wager a majority would say yes.

Fact is most people don't like paying tax, its a mindset that needs to change though. We simply cannot have good roads, cycle facilities, education, health, transport if we don't all pay tax.

We like to look to countrys like Finland for how they do these things better but in Finland you also pay more tax!

friendlyfun

Cabaal wrote: »

Spot on,
Increase taxes on business can very easily have a negative impact on business startup and existing business, a drop in these business can cause tax take to fall.

if for example SF were to increase corp tax, at face value you think higher tax = more money. But it can just as easily result in less corps setting up in Ireland.

Taxing people above a certain amount can encourage these people to move their funds outside of Ireland to avoid such tax,

While lots of people think this is wrong if you ask the avg joe on the street if they could legally pay less tax, would they like to pay less tax..... I'd wager a majority would say yes.

Fact is most people don't like paying tax, its a mindset that needs to change though. We simply cannot have good roads, cycle facilities, education, health, transport if we don't all pay tax.

We like to look to countrys like Finland for how they do these things better but in Finland you also pay more tax!

I agree with you. Brendan Howlin made a similar remark with regards to tax cuts. Essentially if it meant an extra fiver in your pocket or better public services I'd choose the latter.

Pearse Doherty has said they wouldn't touch the 12.5% corporation tax.

curmudgeonly

Deleted User wrote: »

Pearse Doherty has said they wouldn't touch the 12.5% corporation tax.

How about this lot though? Capital will disappear within a month.

GIVING WORKERS AND FAMILIES A BREAK – Tax Spend €2.4 BILLION
- Abolish USC on the first €30,000 earned €1,219 million
- Abolish Local Property Tax €485 million
- Increase Earned Income Credit to €1,650 €35 million
- 1 month rent relief €301 million
- Retain Mortgage interest relief €35 million
- Restore tax credit for trade union membership €40 million
- End Motor tax surcharge for quarterly and 6-month payments €43 million
- Abolish 3% stamp duty on non-life insurance policies €160 million
- Abolish 2% levy on non-life insurance policies €69 million
FUNDING REAL CHANGE AND A BETTER FUTURE – Tax Revenue €3.8 BILLION
- End the corporation tax break for the banks €175 million
- Increase income from the annual bank levy €50 million
- Tax intangible assets onshored by multinationals €722 million
- Introduce a 5% high income levy on individual incomes above €140,000 €452 million
- Taper out tax credits on individual incomes over €100,000 to €140,000 €260 million
- Introduce a wealth tax for the wealthiest 1% in the State at a rate of 1% on the
portion of net wealth held over €1 million with a number of exemptions including farms €89 million
Abolish the Special Assignee Relief Programme €23 million
- Increase Capital Acquisition Tax by 3% to rate of 36% €45 million
- Reduce subsidies to gold-plated pensions by reducing the earnings
limit and reducing the Standard Fund Threshold to €1.2 million €494 million
- Introduce a 15.75% rate of employer’s PRSI on portion of salaries
over €100,000 €532 million
- Increase excise duty on a packet of cigarettes over 5 years €175 million
- Increase Stamp Duty on commercial property to 12.5% €440 million
- Increase the Dividend Withholding Tax on REITs and IREFs to 33% €20 million
- Increase the Vacant Site Levy to 15% to prevent land hoarding €107 million
- Introduce a 2nd home charge at a rate of €400 €104 million
- Replace Help-to-Buy scheme with pubic and affordable homes €102 million

hardybuck

Abolishing USC on the first €30k also appears to be hugely expensive in proportion to the difference it might make to people's take home pay.

FG want to abolish it for the first €20k by contrast.

The proposals there from SF have a touch of Robin Hood to them in fairness.

vriesmays

FG want to increase the population by 30,000, Waterford will be a dumping ground for arrivals from outside the EU.

Wanderer78

vriesmays wrote:

FG want to increase the population by 30,000, Waterford will be a dumping ground for arrivals from outside the EU.

Didn't realise this was in their manifesto, thank God I won't be voting them anyway

vriesmays

https://waterford-news.ie/2020/02/05/fine-gael-lays-bare-partys-commitment-to-north-quays/

Wanderer78

vriesmays wrote: »

https://waterford-news.ie/2020/02/05/fine-gael-lays-bare-partys-commitment-to-north-quays/

those hairy Japanese bastards!

robtri

Cabaal wrote: »

Spot on,
Increase taxes on business can very easily have a negative impact on business startup and existing business, a drop in these business can cause tax take to fall.

if for example SF were to increase corp tax, at face value you think higher tax = more money. But it can just as easily result in less corps setting up in Ireland.

Taxing people above a certain amount can encourage these people to move their funds outside of Ireland to avoid such tax,

While lots of people think this is wrong if you ask the avg joe on the street if they could legally pay less tax, would they like to pay less tax..... I'd wager a majority would say yes.

Fact is most people don't like paying tax, its a mindset that needs to change though. We simply cannot have good roads, cycle facilities, education, health, transport if we don't all pay tax.

We like to look to countrys like Finland for how they do these things better but in Finland you also pay more tax!

Nobody Likes paying taxes true,
But in the past business's used to pay more taxes and individuals paid less taxes,This is an opinion from talking with older business colleagues, talking about the 70's (i cant find any historical to back this up or refute it online) as a result people could afford to live on one wage and have a house etc.. now we have moved to a system of more taxes on individuals and less taxes being paid by businesss (as a percentage of total take) and we now see a reversal of fortune for the family....


2017 40% of taxes came from individuals only 16% from corporation tax

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

hardybuck

robtri wrote: »

Nobody Likes paying taxes true,
But in the past business's used to pay more taxes and individuals paid less taxes,This is an opinion from talking with older business colleagues, talking about the 70's (i cant find any historical to back this up or refute it online) as a result people could afford to live on one wage and have a house etc.. now we have moved to a system of more taxes on individuals and less taxes being paid by businesss (as a percentage of total take) and we now see a reversal of fortune for the family....


2017 40% of taxes came from individuals only 16% from corporation tax

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

In recent years we've had huge surges in corporation tax receipts, so much that we've been able to start running surpluses and putting money back in the rainy day fund.

As most economists have pointed out, we're were at risk of becoming too reliant on the huge income coming from corporation tax, which can be volatile. You don't want all your eggs in one basket.

One of the key advices coming from international experts during the bailout was that Ireland needed to broaden it's tax base to spread risk, and to make tax income more steady to assist with long term planning. This included things like property tax and water charges.

KevIRL

PP Waterford odds (to win a seat) now

Cullinane 1/33
Butler 1/5
Shanahan 2/5
Geoghean 4/6
O cathasaigh 5/4
Mulligan 13/8
Cummins 7/2
Pratt 7/1
16/1 next best

robtri

hardybuck wrote: »

In recent years we've had huge surges in corporation tax receipts, so much that we've been able to start running surpluses and putting money back in the rainy day fund.

As most economists have pointed out, we're were at risk of becoming too reliant on the huge income coming from corporation tax, which can be volatile. You don't want all your eggs in one basket.

One of the key advices coming from international experts during the bailout was that Ireland needed to broaden it's tax base to spread risk, and to make tax income more steady to assist with long term planning. This included things like property tax and water charges.

but as a percentage of total take its still on the individual and not overly reliant on the business

yes we need to broaden our tax system
but what is happening is that income tax is staying where it is and services provided under income tax previously are being removed and charged for separately.
If income taxes where lowered to account for the lower amount of services they are providing while we pay for other services then thats ok...

companies here are avoiding taxes and not paying there fair share, therefore the shortfall is left to individual workers to pay.

Google paid €171m in taxes last year on a €32b turnover recorded in the Irish books... Due to some creative accounting their profit was only recorded at €1.16b

Facebook paid just €30m in tax in Ireland on revenue of €12.6bn last year.

Apple as we know are trying to get away with only paying an effective rate of 1%, hence the European ruling of 13b

Corporation Taxes only contributed 10b to total tax take.... out of 55b raised in total taxes
I don't think thats fair... do you?
or being overly reliant on businesses... seems to me we are overly reliant on you and me as we make up the rest in income taxes, vat and duties...



they are many others doing the same.
but if you think thats fair continue to vote for FF or FG

hardybuck

robtri wrote: »

but as a percentage of total take its still on the individual and not overly reliant on the business

yes we need to broaden our tax system
but what is happening is that income tax is staying where it is and services provided under income tax previously are being removed and charged for separately.
If income taxes where lowered to account for the lower amount of services they are providing while we pay for other services then thats ok...

companies here are avoiding taxes and not paying there fair share, therefore the shortfall is left to individual workers to pay.

Google paid €171m in taxes last year on a €32b turnover recorded in the Irish books... Due to some creative accounting their profit was only recorded at €1.16b

Facebook paid just €30m in tax in Ireland on revenue of €12.6bn last year.

Apple as we know are trying to get away with only paying an effective rate of 1%, hence the European ruling of 13b

Corporation Taxes only contributed 10b to total tax take.... out of 55b raised in total taxes
I don't think thats fair... do you?
or being overly reliant on businesses... seems to me we are overly reliant on you and me as we make up the rest in income taxes, vat and duties...



they are many others doing the same.
but if you think thats fair continue to vote for FF or FG

Sorry, you think that more than 20% of our tax should come via one type of tax, which is notoriously volatile?

robtri

hardybuck wrote: »

Sorry, you think that more than 20% of our tax should come via one type of tax, which is notoriously volatile?

Yes cause at the moment the rest is coming from the joe soap workforce
We only get tax from two sources as much as we dress it up
Joe public and businesses
So relying on joe soap which is as volatile as any business since employment and wealth are closely linked, is just as crazy as relying on businesses to pay their fair share

Or are u in favour of joe soap paying the lions share of taxes and letting corporations have it easy and make billions in profits?

Stopitwillya

Matt shanahan doing the rounds on the national airwaves today along with other independent candidates from other counties such as Verona Murphy. On newstalk earlier and also on Radio 1. Not a proper interview on newstalk with that tulip Ivan Yeats basically just goading Waterford but Shanahan was dignified and put his points across well. Just watched the rte 1 debate and it was much easier to listen than the car crash that is a Yeats interview and Shanahan came across very well. Was also impressed by Murphy. She comes across as full of passion for her county.

hardybuck

robtri wrote: »

Yes cause at the moment the rest is coming from the joe soap workforce
We only get tax from two sources as much as we dress it up
Joe public and businesses
So relying on joe soap which is as volatile as any business since employment and wealth are closely linked, is just as crazy as relying on businesses to pay their fair share

Or are u in favour of joe soap paying the lions share of taxes and letting corporations have it easy and make billions in profits?

No it isn't - businesses pay a variety of taxes, including corporation tax.

Corporation taxes and income taxes have surged in recent years, while VAT is now much lower than during the last boom.

Corporation tax the third largest tax after income tax and VAT. But about half of it is paid by just ten companies. That means that we're extremely vulnerable if just one or two of those companies leave or suffer losses, so you don't want to be more dependent on it.

The ESRI have recommended that Ireland increases carbon tax and property tax but I note that SF wish to abolish both.

I'd be concerned about how some parties, including SF, want to load more tax on higher earners and business.

A worker earning €75k earns 3 times more than someone on €25k but pays 8 times more tax. A worker earning €100k earns 5.6 times more than someone on €18k, but pays 66 times more tax.

So I'm worried if more pressure is loaded onto higher earners and business as it might bring the house down around us.