General Election 2020 - See MOD note in First Post

Yellow_Fern

Awful to see Sinn fein getting so many votes. They tell people what they want to hear and ignore the obvious but difficult solutions. Look at their stance on property tax. 80% of wealth in the country is in property but they refuse to consider it even though internationally the right and left agree on property tax. Their refusal to consider carbon taxes is dangerous when we need to make progress on emission and OBroin's housing policy is beyond absurd.

One academic source, who asked not to be named, points out that local authorities and approved housing bodies have built, between them, about 120,000 units in the thirty years since 1990. “Building 100,000 dwellings over the next five years would be an unprecedented ramping up of construction and would be almost impossible to achieve in my view,” the source said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/election-2020-is-sinn-f%C3%A9in-s-housing-policy-credible-1.4163859

spookwoman

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Awful to see Sinn fein getting so many votes. They tell people what they want to hear and ignore the obvious but difficult solutions. Look at their stance on property tax. 80% of wealth in the country is in property but they refuse to consider it even though internationally the right and left agree on property tax. Their refusal to consider carbon taxes is dangerous when we need to make progress on emission and OBroin's housing policy is beyond absurd.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/election-2020-is-sinn-f%C3%A9in-s-housing-policy-credible-1.4163859

Carbon tax is not going to sort out anything in fact it will add to poverty because its the people on low incomes and rentals that get hit the most.

friendlyfun

Its clear that FF and FGs vote share is declining quite precipitously. Either they change their policies or approach dramatically or I can seem slide further down. They're approach to SF isn't exactly working either.

friendlyfun

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Awful to see Sinn fein getting so many votes. They tell people what they want to hear and ignore the obvious but difficult solutions. Look at their stance on property tax. 80% of wealth in the country is in property but they refuse to consider it even though internationally the right and left agree on property tax. Their refusal to consider carbon taxes is dangerous when we need to make progress on emission and OBroin's housing policy is beyond absurd.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/election-2020-is-sinn-f%C3%A9in-s-housing-policy-credible-1.4163859

FGs carbon tax is regressive though. Its going to hurt the poorest most (surprise surprise).

Wanderer78

Yellow_Fern wrote:

Awful to see Sinn fein getting so many votes. They tell people what they want to hear and ignore the obvious but difficult solutions. Look at their stance on property tax. 80% of wealth in the country is in property but they refuse to consider it even though internationally the right and left agree on property tax. Their refusal to consider carbon taxes is dangerous when we need to make progress on emission and OBroin's housing policy is beyond absurd.

Wouldn't overly worry about it yet, a government hasn't been formed yet, and ffg won't give up to easily, they ll be out in force for the next ge

Yellow_Fern

spookwoman wrote: »

Carbon tax is not going to sort out anything in fact it will add to poverty because its the people on low incomes and rentals that get hit the most.

No it doesnt. It affects people who are biggest polluters. If you pollute you should pay.

friendlyfun wrote: »

FGs carbon tax is regressive though. Its going to hurt the poorest most (surprise surprise).

So is VAT. Are you against VAT? So is the price of food and electricity? Should theire be free food and electricity? The idea that rich alone can fix climate change doesnt make sense. Everyone should pay.

Yellow_Fern

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Wouldn't overly worry about it yet, a government hasn't been formed yet, and ffg won't give up to easily, they ll be out in force for the next ge

We have had carbon tax for years. It has done plenty of good. What if SF try to abolish it.

Wanderer78

Yellow_Fern wrote:

We have had carbon tax for years. It has done plenty of good. What if SF try to abolish it.

Ah I think everyone needs to relax, sf aren't in government yet, the shanaigans have just begun, ffg won't give up too easily

spookwoman

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

No it doesnt. It affects people who are biggest polluters. If you pollute you should pay.




So is VAT. Are you against VAT? So is the price of food and electricity? Should theire be free food and electricity? The idea that rich alone can fix climate change doesnt make sense. Everyone should pay.

Guess what the people on low incomes and poor can't afford to upgrade their houses if they are lucky to have one in their name or the banks. The same can't afford to buy the latest cars and you do know it creates large carbon food print to make a new car.
Those that are renting are paying through the nose as it is for rent and you can guarantee the house they are renting won't have solar panels the latest insulation etc and have an 1 energy rating. Force landlords to upgrade and the rent will go up. jeez.....

friendlyfun

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

No it doesnt. It affects people who are biggest polluters. If you pollute you should pay.




So is VAT. Are you against VAT? So is the price of food and electricity? Should theire be free food and electricity? The idea that rich alone can fix climate change doesnt make sense. Everyone should pay.

Oh everyone should pay? like farmers reducing the national herd? (because Fine Gael said they wouldn't do that), even though it would be required really for real climate action. But I guess they know their voters. That's an uncomfortable truth.

Yellow_Fern

spookwoman wrote: »

Guess what the people on low incomes and poor can't afford to upgrade their houses if they are lucky to have one in their name or the banks. The same can't afford to buy the latest cars and you do know it creates large carbon food print to make a new car.
Those that are renting are paying through the nose as it is for rent and you can guarantee the house they are renting won't have solar panels the latest insulation etc and have an 1 energy rating. Force landlords to upgrade and the rent will go up. jeez.....

This is such a bogus argument. You don't have set the carbon tax rate so high that car use is unaffordable. We have good grants to help with the expenses of upgrading. Only having grants doesn't work. There is tons of academic data to show that grants only are a waste of time.

Yellow_Fern

friendlyfun wrote: »

Oh everyone should pay? like farmers reducing the national herd? (because Fine Gael said they wouldn't do that), even though it would be required really for real climate action. But I guess they know their voters.

It wont work properly until it is across the board. Reducing the national herd has nothing to do with anything. yes farmers get subsidies and it is wrong but it is up to each farmer to decide his herd size. May Lou: Lord, let us save the climate but not yet.

friendlyfun

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

It wont work properly until it is across the board. Reducing the national herd has nothing to do with anything. yes farmers get subsidies and it is wrong but it is up to each farmer to decide his herd size. May Lou: Lord, let us save the climate but not yet.

I just think its hypocritical they are all about carbon taxes but don't want to be honest about confronting climate change from the agri sector. Lets be honest they don't want to lose votes.

Yellow_Fern

friendlyfun wrote: »

I just think its hypocritical they are all about carbon taxes but don't want to be honest about confronting climate change from the agri sector. Lets be honest they don't want to lose votes.

Perhaps a bit hypocritical but at least farmers do pay some carbon taxes. SF lie outright that some kind of other solution is possible. Don't get wrong, SF could could reduce our carbon emissions... by causing a recession.

robtri

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

We have had carbon tax for years. It has done plenty of good. What if SF try to abolish it.

What good has it done?

Yellow_Fern

robtri wrote: »

What good has it done?

Our carbon emissions are on a downward trend.

friendlyfun

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Perhaps a bit hypocritical but at least farmers do pay some carbon taxes. SF lie outright that some kind of other solution is possible. Don't get wrong, SF could could reduce our carbon emissions... by causing a recession.

Well one of the duopoly actually caused a recession let's remember that.

Harry Palmr

Eddie Mulligan is gone!

Eddie Mulligan FF +87, total 3,180

Mary Butler FF +414, total 7,720
John Cummins FG +83, total 5,119
Una Dunphy SPBP +468, total 4,829
Damien Geoghegan FG +34, total 4,572
Marc O Cathasaigh GP +251, total 5,631
John Pratt Lab +147, total 4,453
Matt Shanahan NP + 531, total 7,246

Will Marc O Cathasaigh nab the last seat?

dark crystal

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Eddie Mulligan is gone!

Wonder how many of his 2nd preferences will go to Mary Butler? Could be the boost she needs to get over the line


Edit: Just saw Harry's figures posted above!

jmcc

dark crystal wrote: »

Wonder how many of his 2nd preferences will go to Mary Butler? Could be the boost she needs to get over the line


Edit: Just saw Harry's figures posted above!

Some of Mulligan's prefs will transfer to Shanahan first. (Waterford East effect).

Regards...jmcc

wagtail99

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Eddie Mulligan is gone!

Eddie Mulligan FF +87, total 3,180

Mary Butler FF +414, total 7,720
John Cummins FG +83, total 5,119
Una Dunphy SPBP +468, total 4,829
Damien Geoghegan FG +34, total 4,572
Marc O Cathasaigh GP +251, total 5,631
John Pratt Lab +147, total 4,453
Matt Shanahan NP + 531, total 7,246

Will Marc O Cathasaigh nab the last seat?

If Pratt can get 120 more transfers than D.Geoghegan from Mulligan, then Geoghegan would be elimated next. This could possibly result in no FG seat in Waterford, as many of Geoghegan's transfers could go to a fellow 'West' candidate in Pratt rather than to Cummins. This could then leave Cummins behind one of Pratt, O'Cas..., or Dunphy for the 4th seat. 120 is prob too big of an ask, we'll see

Speak Now

jmcc wrote: »

Some of Mulligan's prefs will transfer to Shanahan first. (Waterford East effect).

Regards...jmcc

Geoghegan or Pratt should get a boost from each other whoever goes next!

jmcc

Some shock if FG don't get a seat in Waterford.

Regards...jmcc

Yellow_Fern

friendlyfun wrote: »

Well one of the duopoly actually caused a recession let's remember that.

Part of the recession. A great part was caused by external factors and the failure of the independent Central Bank.

taytobreath

u can watch the count live on wlr utube page. i never knew this till now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMGYjbylP_4

hardybuck

Speak Now wrote: »

Geoghegan or Pratt should get a boost from each other whoever goes next!

Geoghegan might overtake Cummins with Pratt's transfers. Hard to know whether that Labour vote mostly goes to him or PBP, I think the former. That could put him very close to Shanahan potentially.

In any event I see Dunphy going next. Her transfers then become crucial as they could determine whether Shanahan or O'Cathasaigh takes fourth seat.

I also think one of the two FG lads gets the third or fourth seat - whichever of them gets knocked out first will push the other one over the line.

jmcc

Una Dunphy/PBP eliminated. On to count 6.

Regards...jmcc

taytobreath

hardybuck wrote: »

Geoghegan might overtake Cummins with Pratt's transfers. Hard to know whether that Labour vote mostly goes to him or PBP, I think the former. That could put him very close to Shanahan potentially.

In any event I see Dunphy going next. Her transfers then become crucial as they could determine whether Shanahan or O'Cathasaigh takes fourth seat.

I also think one of the two FG lads gets the third or fourth seat - whichever of them gets knocked out first will push the other one over the line.

You were right. Dunphy out on the 5th count

jmcc

Shanahan/Ind now ahead of Butler/FF. Looks like they will take the second and third seats. O'Cathasaigh/Greens might just get the fourth. Maurice Cummins looked like he was resigned to the Greens taking the last seat but it might be very close if they do.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

O'Casathaigh/Greens wins the last seat. FG loses.

Cullinane/SF
Butler/FF
Shanahan/Ind
O'Cathasaigh/Greens

Regards...jmcc