General Election 2020 - See MOD note in First Post

DLS_75

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Sadly Shanahan is prochoice actually.

Incorrect. He’s one of the most conservative politicians we have. You think that someone who goes to mass every sunday and Lourdes every year is going to be pro-chive? I worry about all of these statements of fact that appear to be based on absolutely nothing.

Stopitwillya

DLS_75 wrote: »

Who will he co-opt into his council seat? Mary Roche endorsed him, maybe she’ll look for her seat back again. Although probably doubtful because didn’t she get a golden handshake when she left? Around 60k?

Isn't that just the biggest joke. These people have have clearly failed Waterford and a walk through the city centre shows that yet the likes of Mary Roche gets 60k for resigning a part time gig.

vriesmays

DLS_75 wrote: »

Incorrect. He’s one of the most conservative politicians we have. You think that someone who goes to mass every sunday and Lourdes every year is going to be pro-chive? I worry about all of these statements of fact that appear to be based on absolutely nothing.

Would you rather he went to the local mosque five times a day and observed the ramadan.

Quigs Snr

I see FF had Mary Butler on the TV talking about government formation earlier on. Clearly hoping that the whole rather unfortunate trolling of the victims of child abuse episode will all blow over soon. Their political machine is so transparently predictable... bar her from Facebook and then try to raise her profile elsewhere. I suspect that any hope that Waterford does not forget come next election is a rather forlorn one on my part.

Deiseen

Imreoir2 wrote: »

He voted no in the referendum. Not all that prochoice as far as I can see.

I think he clarified his position on this. He voted no as he had worries about the legislation but he supported the repealing of the 8th.

Nypd

Quigs Snr wrote: »

I see FF had Mary Butler on the TV talking about government formation earlier on. Clearly hoping that the whole rather unfortunate trolling of the victims of child abuse episode will blow all blow over soon. Their political machine is so transparently predictable... bar her from Facebook and then try to raise her profile elsewhere. I suspect that the hope that Waterford does not forget come next election is a rather forlorn one on my part.

Don’t think it will go away for her, this is FF’s way of trying to reintroduce her.

Imreoir2

Deiseen wrote: »

I think he clarified his position on this. He voted no as he had worries about the legislation but he supported the repealing of the 8th.

I think that is a very thin veil to cover his pro-life position. If he was in favour of repeal then he should have voted for it. As things stand he is on the record as having voted against repeal.

Cabaal

Quigs Snr wrote: »

His job is to get 24/7. Integrity has no place in such affairs. That is the mandate he was elected on and the people who voted for him won't care which particular devil he had to get into bed with to make it happen. He will be aware at how public sentiment turned against Halligan for failing to do exactly that.

So to deliver on that he should get into bed with just about anyone?

Delivering at any cost is a very foolish outlook to have,

Cabaal

Imreoir2 wrote: »

I think that is a very thin veil to cover his pro-life position. If he was in favour of repeal then he should have voted for it. As things stand he is on the record as having voted against repeal.

Agree with this,
Claiming he didn't like the legislation is nonsense.

Bottom line is the 8th had to be repealed for ANY legislation to go in place, so if he wanted different legislation to the one proposed he still should have been in favour of a YES vote.

Voting no would only ensure one thing, the goverment simply could not legislate the issue

Quigs Snr

Cabaal wrote: »

So to deliver on that he should get into bed with just about anyone?

Delivering at any cost is a very foolish outlook to have,

Not to people who have had or will have relatives dying in ambulances somewhere out between youghal and middleton.

For many who voted for him (I didnt) the end will jusity the means. Whatever that entails. Politics is a popularity game and if you want to be re elected you will hold your nose and do what you must. What would be truly foolish would be to think otherwise. Unless you are the lead FF candidate in an area that favours that party. Like Waterford. In which case you can fo what you want and there are no consequences.

spookwoman

Personally I think he is only in this for himself.

azimuth17

Cabaal wrote: »

So to deliver on that he should get into bed with just about anyone?

Delivering at any cost is a very foolish outlook to have,

I would be very grateful if you could suggest what else he might do to progress the 24/7 issue at this stage? Almost everything other than armed insurrection has been tried. Shanahan has twice put himself before the local electorate on this issue and twice been elected. Joining a technical group which may afford him speaking time in the Dail is sensible unless he wants sit, as you post implies he should do, tut tutting about the sordid nature of politics from a lofty and isolated perch on the back benches?

hardybuck

To approach this from another angle, Shanahan was at pains to explain that he wasn't a single issue candidate.

Now that he's been elected and is representing the constituency, I'd be keen to know what those priorities are, and how he intends to progress them.

If he's not clear on those now he might get distracted up there - but that's never happened before!

Gael23

Nypd wrote: »

Don’t think it will go away for her, this is FF’s way of trying to reintroduce her.

Agreed, she’s in deep **** over the while issue

Cabaal

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Not to people who have had or will have relatives dying in ambulances somewhere out between youghal and middleton.

For many who voted for him (I didnt) the end will jusity the means. Whatever that entails. Politics is a popularity game and if you want to be re elected you will hold your nose and do what you must. What would be truly foolish would be to think otherwise. Unless you are the lead FF candidate in an area that favours that party. Like Waterford. In which case you can fo what you want and there are no consequences.

So say some fringe Irexit party got some TD's, they are anti anyone that isn't Irish, anti EU, a bunch of religious zealots and don't believe in climate change.

You'd think its ok for a TD to get into bed with them to further 24/7 but at the same time further the fringe party's goals?

Progress by any means?
Nice.
:rolleyes:

Quigs Snr

Cabaal wrote: »

So say some fringe Irexit party got some TD's, they are anti anyone that isn't Irish, anti EU, a bunch of religious zealots and don't believe in climate change.

You'd think its ok for a TD to get into bed with them to further 24/7 but at the same time further the fringe party's goals?

Progress by any means?
Nice.
:rolleyes:

Lot of ifs there. Heres another.. if Matt Shanahan was all that stood between such a party and their goals, then the country is already too far gone to save. Although Donald Trumps Republican party ticks many of those boxes to some degree and appears to be mostly ineffectual in advancing its agenda. So maybe its not that bad. And i would still have them over Sinn Fein.

But to answer your question. No. For a real politician, please stay away from the racist planet destroyers.

Yes. For a single issue politician. Which Shanahan is despite attempts to state otherwise. People voted for him because of the cardiac care. He would have been fighting Bernadette Philips and Aontu guy for the wooden spoon otherwise.

I am not saying I like it. I am saying that the people who voted for him, many of them anyway would not thank him for anything else.

Roanmore

hardybuck wrote: »

To approach this from another angle, Shanahan was at pains to explain that he wasn't a single issue candidate.

Now that he's been elected and is representing the constituency, I'd be keen to know what those priorities are, and how he intends to progress them.

If he's not clear on those now he might get distracted up there - but that's never happened before!

When his brother called to my door before the election I asked him what were his other policies. He said they were only concentrating on that issue at the moment.

jmcc

Cabaal wrote: »

So to deliver on that he should get into bed with just about anyone?

Delivering at any cost is a very foolish outlook to have,

He's got a job to do. It may not have occurred to you that failure is measured in deaths of people from the South East. Those people are our families and friends. Because of this he has earned a lot more leeway than other politicians in this respect.

Regards...jmcc

Gardner

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Not to people who have had or will have relatives dying in ambulances somewhere out between youghal and middleton.

For many who voted for him (I didnt) the end will jusity the means. Whatever that entails. Politics is a popularity game and if you want to be re elected you will hold your nose and do what you must. What would be truly foolish would be to think otherwise. Unless you are the lead FF candidate in an area that favours that party. Like Waterford. In which case you can fo what you want and there are no consequences.

who are these people? the whole 24/7 thing is blown completely out of proportion. there isn't someone dying everyday, every week or even every month. i have asked the question numerous times, how many people have died because of a lack of 24/7 in the SE? i for one can only call of 1 to 2 cases since these protest groups were created. There are other services at UHW that have seen far more deaths due to lack of resources and service.

BBM77

Gardner wrote: »

who are these people? the whole 24/7 thing is blown completely out of proportion. there isn't someone dying everyday, every week or even every month. i have asked the question numerous times, how many people have died because of a lack of 24/7 in the SE? i for one can only call of 1 to 2 cases since these protest groups were created. There are other services at UHW that have seen far more deaths due to lack of resources and service.

Have a heart attack tonight and see if the 24/7 cardiac care issue is blown completely out of proportion.

Max Powers

Gardner wrote: »

who are these people? the whole 24/7 thing is blown completely out of proportion. there isn't someone dying everyday, every week or even every month. i have asked the question numerous times, how many people have died because of a lack of 24/7 in the SE? i for one can only call of 1 to 2 cases since these protest groups were created. There are other services at UHW that have seen far more deaths due to lack of resources and service.

That's silly stuff, clinical need has clearly been shown by medical people.how many people die due to not going to get treatment because they know it means a trip to cork, I know for a fact people who have delayed / ignored cardiac issues as they knew it would mean an ambulance to cork.sounds crazy I know but if you have suspected heart issue Saturday, but you are not sure, you will dither as to what to do.if you have experience with older people, this is especially true. how many lost partial brain function because of heightened delay. How many died because they delayed seeking treatment. That information is not recorded but it's happening. A region of 500k people should have access to this service 24/7, like the mid west, west, east etc etc

Gardner

BBM77 wrote: »

Have a heart attack tonight and see if the 24/7 cardiac care issue is blown completely out of proportion.

oh that auld chestnut response

Gardner

Max Powers wrote: »

That's silly stuff, clinical need has clearly been shown by medical people.how many people die due to not going to get treatment because they know it means a trip to cork, I know for a fact people who have delayed / ignored cardiac issues as they knew it would mean an ambulance to cork.sounds crazy I know but if you have suspected heart issue Saturday, but you are not sure, you will dither as to what to do.if you have experience with older people, this is especially true. how many lost partial brain function because of heightened delay. How many died because they delayed seeking treatment. That information is not recorded but it's happening. A region of 500k people should have access to this service 24/7, like the mid west, west, east etc etc

it's simple, if your don't feel well on Saturday and you delay or ignore the issue then you have only got yourself to blame and using excuses like the above is ridiculous.

Wanderer78

Gardner wrote:

it's simple, if your don't feel well on Saturday and you delay or ignore the issue then you have only got yourself to blame and using excuses like the above is ridiculous.

Ah the ould chestnut of 'personal responsibility'!

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

That's silly stuff, clinical need has clearly been shown by medical people.how many people die due to not going to get treatment because they know it means a trip to cork, I know for a fact people who have delayed / ignored cardiac issues as they knew it would mean an ambulance to cork.sounds crazy I know but if you have suspected heart issue Saturday, but you are not sure, you will dither as to what to do.if you have experience with older people, this is especially true. how many lost partial brain function because of heightened delay. How many died because they delayed seeking treatment. That information is not recorded but it's happening. A region of 500k people should have access to this service 24/7, like the mid west, west, east etc etc

You've raised a number of questions there.

How many people died because of a lack of 24/7 - the answer to that seems to be very few.

The other point/question you've drifted into is 'would better outcomes be achieved if the service was in Waterford'? That's possibly a better question.

The final point you've not mentioned is how many of the 420k people in the region live well within the range of another of the regional facilities. West Waterford, mid-North Wexford. Lots of Carlow and Kilkenny. I'm sure that had an impact on decisions made.

Finally, I understand that planning for a second cath lab has been approved and construction is expected to begin in a couple of months, and the service will be expanded to cover weekends. 24/7 will happen eventually as the population of the city is expected to grow and we're unlikely to get another recession of the scale we experienced ten years ago again in the foreseeable future.

deisemum

Mary Butler has more front than Brighton Pier, she's now claiming she's being victimised over Kenneally for political reasons.

paraletic

10km straight line distance from an appropriate medical facility appears to increase mortality rates by 1%.
i'm sure there is also a high percentage of people who may live but don't recover well.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17711952

...and from the IMT:
A UK study presented at the IMO conference in Killarney has found a one per cent increase in mortality with each 10 kilometre increase in journey distances from hospitals.

The study also found that there was a greater increase in risk of mortality for patients with respiratory problems than those suffering from chest pain, injury or other symptoms.


infact just look at google scholar:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?rlz=1C1EJFA_enIE703IE703&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&q=related:Qx79hhJYTvvjOM:scholar.google.com/

BBM77

hardybuck wrote: »

You've raised a number of questions there.

How many people died because of a lack of 24/7 - the answer to that seems to be very few.

The other point/question you've drifted into is 'would better outcomes be achieved if the service was in Waterford'? That's possibly a better question.

The final point you've not mentioned is how many of the 420k people in the region live well within the range of another of the regional facilities. West Waterford, mid-North Wexford. Lots of Carlow and Kilkenny. I'm sure that had an impact on decisions made.

Finally, I understand that planning for a second cath lab has been approved and construction is expected to begin in a couple of months, and the service will be expanded to cover weekends. 24/7 will happen eventually as the population of the city is expected to grow and we're unlikely to get another recession of the scale we experienced ten years ago again in the foreseeable future.

Think you are the one missing the point. So people in Waterford city and surrounding area can be left without 24hr cover in a recession. Whereas elsewhere can keep it or can get to somewhere that does in time. I don’t pay tax to be treated differently. Can yourself and Gardner explain why there is one rule for us and different rules for the rest? To me this kind of unfairness is unacceptable.

jmcc

hardybuck wrote: »

You've raised a number of questions there.

How many people died because of a lack of 24/7 - the answer to that seems to be very few.

The other point/question you've drifted into is 'would better outcomes be achieved if the service was in Waterford'? That's possibly a better question.

The final point you've not mentioned is how many of the 420k people in the region live well within the range of another of the regional facilities. West Waterford, mid-North Wexford. Lots of Carlow and Kilkenny. I'm sure that had an impact on decisions made.

Finally, I understand that planning for a second cath lab has been approved and construction is expected to begin in a couple of months, and the service will be expanded to cover weekends. 24/7 will happen eventually as the population of the city is expected to grow and we're unlikely to get another recession of the scale we experienced ten years ago again in the foreseeable future.

Those points look remarkably similar to the FG propaganda about why the lives of people in the SE are not as valuable as those of others. Have you any ideas of your own on this matter?

You do realise that FG has no TD in Waterford due mainly to Shanahan getting cross-party support on this issue?

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

Gardner wrote: »

it's simple, if your don't feel well on Saturday and you delay or ignore the issue then you have only got yourself to blame and using excuses like the above is ridiculous.

It may not have occurred to you but people don't have a choice in when they get to feel unwell. This seems to be just an opportunity for political point scoring for you and it is quite unseemly given the gravity of the situation. Surely you are better than that?

Regards...jmcc