General Election 2020 - See MOD note in First Post

friendlyfun

Mary Butler is one right now. Seems to be apologising to have Brendan Keneally canvassing for her.

Harry Palmr

She is busy apologising unreservedly to various named victims and others. A compete error on my part that I didn't see the damage that could have been done (by having Keanelly canvassing on her behalf)

DT is wondering why BK didn't canvass during the local elections but did in the GE.

You can listen back to the feature later today.

DT saying the only reason you are here is because "you got caught out"

She has no answer other than to accuse DT of being disingenuous.

She is leaving Keneally's office on Waterside.

hardybuck

Harry Palmr wrote: »

She is busy apologising unreservedly to various named victims and others. A compete error on my part that I didn't see the damage that could have been done (by having Keanelly canvassing on her behalf)

DT is wondering why BK didn't canvass during the local elections but did in the GE.

You can listen back to the feature later today.

DT saying the only reason you are here is because "you got caught out"

She has no answer other than to accuse DT of being disingenuous.

Wouldn't have been much easier if she said that at the very start, and admitted an error of judgement, rather than pointing the finger in every direction? A very bad trait which I don't like.

I'm very sorry. I had no intention to offend anyone. BK is obviously a very prominent FF man in Waterford which is why he was on the canvass, but on reflection he shouldn't have been in the circumstances.

friendlyfun

She's leaving her office at the Waterside from Brendan Keneally within the next two weeks.

Harry Palmr

She sounds a bit shell shocked rather than arrogant or disruptive.

The media "bullying" part of this interview is up now

91wx763

He did that interview very well. He was realistic in his questioning. He left her to fall on her sword.

In fact he was harder on her than on the "IRA" TD a few weeks back.....

Nypd

91wx763 wrote: »

He did that interview very well. He was realistic in his questioning. He left her to fall on her sword.

In fact he was harder on her that on the "IRA" TD a few weeks back.....

And so he should.
Her behaviour and smoke screens has been a disgrace.
Not all questions answered tho.

91wx763

Snipped....

Nypd wrote: »

Not all questions answered tho.

You have to allow that the fake "Mary Butler TD" facebook account is under garda investigation. Imagine if an IP address of an opponent came out if it though !!! Tiernan did try make her call out the suspects.

Muttley79

Mary Roche got 60k golden handshake 12 months ago,DT asked her how much she got and she couldn't remember,haha amnesia they suffer when it's convenient,she also says board of managements that she also sits on should be paid more.they pay about 8k annually.this woman wants to be paid more to sit on a council and board of managements.glorified talkshops is all they are.this country stinks of how much these people get away with

Nypd

91wx763 wrote: »

Snipped....
You have to allow that the fake "Mary Butler TD" facebook account is under garda investigation. Imagine if an IP address of an opponent came out if it though !!! Tiernan did try make her call out the suspects.

I thought DT went after her hard at the start and rightly so.
If anything has come out of it at least she was brought to account publicly.
Once her page is closed there’s no way of proving anything, I don’t think a closed account can be tracked or looked at in anyway.

IsosKramer

jmcc wrote: »

It did indicate trouble ahead for FG and this kind of pattern wasn't limited to Waterford. The focus in the media (national) was, as was to be expected, about how badly SF had done in the Locals. But journalists don't generally understand statistics and shifting voting trends.

The cath lab has forced a lot of people to reconsider their support for FG. The other factor was the Dublinicisation of FG under Varadkar and his gang of media friendly morons. The FG grassroots wanted Coveney as the leader of FG but it was the FG parliamentary party that installed Varadkar. If Coveney had been leading FG, the 2020 GE would not have been quite so bad for FG.

FG has been quite strong in the area and continued to be quite strong. FF is also strong in the constituency. That could easily have been seen in the way that Adam Wyse was effectively co-opted to replace is late father. Labour also had a councillor member in the constituency. The Greens had Brendan McCann as a councillor for a while but I think that it lost the seat due to a student union politics approach.

For older FF/FG voters and supporters, the cath lab situation is important and Ardkeen is in the Waterford East constituency. It is a constant reminder of people who died because they didn't have a heart attack during business hours. That translates to votes even if people had previously been supporters of other parties.

Contrary to what opinion polls and political journalists would have one believe, the floating vote decides General Elections rather than true believer type party members. If enough floating voters change their votes, then expected results don't happen.

The Greens are a known quantity in Waterford. Shanahan is not. The Greens have a party infrastructure whereas Shanahan does not. FG could have got the last seat ahead of O'Cathasaigh but they had split the vote over two candidates. The Greens had also benefited from a "None of the above" vote that had previously gone to Labour before it went Austerity crazy in 2011.

The other factor that may work in favour of SF and the Greens if there is another GE in the next few months is that there is a new voter registrar in effect. The one used for the last GE had excluded a lot of new voters.

That's extremely tight, and who knows what would happen next time, particularly in light of how certain candidates have disgraced themselves in recent weeks. I think transfers in many cases went more geographically than by party than was seen in other constituencies.

Waterford is a city. Unlike Galway or some other places, it is a real city that has grown organically and is not a patchwork of villages made into a city by a committee. This means that people are more likely to vote for a person rather than a party. There is also an element of the "None of the above" vote playing out in Dunphy's transfers. The Green Party as a brand is quite good in that respect.

Regards...jmcc

I'm intrigued by the Galway comment.
What villages are these? In the likely event that you can't name them, do you know where you read this? My hunch would be .....nowhere because it's not correct.
Waterford needs to stop comparing itself to Galway City. Galway City's population will, in the not-too-distant future, be double that of Waterford.
In fact, it would be already if house prices in Galway City were not among the highest outside Dublin. The first-time buyers flooding into the thriving medical devices' sector, University(est. 1845) cannot afford to live in the city. They live in places such as Oranmore, Moycullen, Claregalway etc. Waterford is 'lucky' to have relatively cheap housing.
Of course, according to the 2016 census, the number of people employed in Galway City is already more than double that of Waterford- which reflects what's clearly obvious.
Waterford needs to forget about places like Galway City. It's too far ahead.
Waterford should worry about being overtaken by Drogheda!

DLS_75

91wx763 wrote: »

He did that interview very well. He was realistic in his questioning. He left her to fall on her sword.

In fact he was harder on her that on the "IRA" TD a few weeks back.....

I think he’s a brilliant interviewer now. Not afraid to ask the tough questions and still they all come back to him in their droves.

azimuth17

IsosKramer wrote: »

I'm intrigued by the Galway comment.
What villages are these? In the likely event that you can't name them, do you know where you read this? My hunch would be .....nowhere because it's not correct.
Waterford needs to stop comparing itself to Galway City. Galway City's population will, in the not-too-distant future, be double that of Waterford.
In fact, it would be already if house prices in Galway City were not among the highest outside Dublin. The first-time buyers flooding into the thriving medical devices' sector, University(est. 1845) cannot afford to live in the city. They live in places such as Oranmore, Moycullen, Claregalway etc. Waterford is 'lucky' to have relatively cheap housing.
Of course, according to the 2016 census, the number of people employed in Galway City is already more than double that of Waterford- which reflects what's clearly obvious.
Waterford needs to forget about places like Galway City. It's too far ahead.
Waterford should worry about being overtaken by Drogheda!

Whether we like it or not, this is a reasonable post. Galway had the preconditions for growth, university plus government support that we still do not have. In honesty, it rankles in Waterford, and rightly so, that Galway has been driven ahead by sensible regional policy initiatives that never seem to apply to Waterford. My father always talked of visiting his relations in Galway in the late 1950s early 1960s(shops nopening at midday and closing at three o clock) when it was half the size of Waterford. That disparity did not stop Galway then from pushing itself and being pushed by government. Neither should it stop Waterford now when the roles are reversed. I have no problem with Galway at all, except the perceived (down here) sense of entitlement and superiority isa bit much sometimes. Galway does show that regional policy in Ireland workd....when it is applied. I frankly do not recall any time in the past generation when people in Galway had to march or protest for anything. Maybe the university as precondition explains it all?

spookwoman

Muttley79 wrote: »

Mary Roche got 60k golden handshake 12 months ago,DT asked her how much she got and she couldn't remember,haha amnesia they suffer when it's convenient,she also says board of managements that she also sits on should be paid more.they pay about 8k annually.this woman wants to be paid more to sit on a council and board of managements.glorified talkshops is all they are.this country stinks of how much these people get away with

She should be made hand that back

91wx763

Agreed, a good post.

The funny thing I'm reminded of is when I were a lad almost EVERY evening Jim Fahy from Galway was on the 6 o'clock news !!! Michael Ryan hardly ever got a look in.

91wx763

spookwoman wrote: »

She should be made hand that back

It's the system for everyone. I assume if you and Muttley went up for election or joined one of these quangos ye'd do it for nothing.

Harry Palmr

azimuth17 wrote: »

. I frankly do not recall any time in the past generation when people in Galway had to march or protest for anything. Maybe the university as precondition explains it all?

The city has always had a "Minister for Galway", you can't beat a five seater for getting a seat at the top table. When Digital closed you'd have sworn in was the end of the western seaboards economy such was the media coverage and the plan of action. By contrast when the Glass finally shut it's doors (after successive rounds of redundancies) there was little more than a lament "sure twas an old world industry it couldn't be saved" was there any action to mitigate such a loss? Hell, the workers had to fight tooth and nail for 5 years to get a proper settlement of pensions.

Muttley79

91wx763 wrote: »

It's the system for everyone. I assume if you and Muttley went up for election or joined one of these quangos ye'd do it for nothing.

If I got 60k golden handshake of taxpayers money and I moved away from politics,I certainly would not come back 12 months later and say
1.i can't remember how much I got
2 the arrogance to say councillors/bom should be paid more
3 tell everyone I spent it and I won't be giving it back
4 12 months after "retiring" come back like it's a self entitlement

azimuth17

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The city has always had a "Minister for Galway", you can't beat a five seater for getting a seat at the top table. When Digital closed you'd have sworn in was the end of the western seaboards economy such was the media coverage and the plan of action. By contrast when the Glass finally shut it's doors (after successive rounds of redundancies) there was little more than a lament "sure twas an old world industry it couldn't be saved" was there any action to mitigate such a loss? Hell, the workers had to fight tooth and nail for 5 years to get a proper settlement of pensions.

Trouble is, it was an old world industry with unsustainable wage rates and prices. And the university bit again, I would suggest that the difference in educational attainment and skills transferability of the Glass versus Digital, was enormous. The historic focus on education in the west versus the south east, which is only now being remedied here, plays a big part in the kind of political class one ends up with. Galway has traditionally had an educated political class. John Halligan proves the point. Well meaning, ends up perfectly placed, but cannot score. Didn't have the smarts.

jmcc

IsosKramer wrote: »

I'm intrigued by the Galway comment.
What villages are these? In the likely event that you can't name them, do you know where you read this? My hunch would be .....nowhere because it's not correct.

Galway is merely a county town with villages tacked on to make it a city. That's the reality. There are even reports on developments being targeted for inclusion by the city council. (Newspaper report from 2010.). That makes its political dynamics different from a city like Waterford. Had Waterford tried the same thing, Dunmore, Passage, Tramore and much of the Waterford hinterland in South Kilkenny would be part of a much larger Waterford metropolitan area.

Because Waterford is a city, the population is more concentrated in a smaller geographical region. The population per square kilometre for Waterford county is 62.7. The Galway county population density is only 42. Because of the concentration of the Waterford population, voters are just as likely to vote for a person rather than party. That creates transfer patterns that can surprise people. (The PBP->Green transfers.)

Regards...jmcc

azimuth17

jmcc wrote: »

Galway is merely a county town with villages tacked on to make it a city. That's the reality. There are even reports on developments being targeted for inclusion by the city council. (Newspaper report from 2010.). That makes its political dynamics different from a city like Waterford. Had Waterford tried the same thing, Dunmore, Passage, Tramore and much of the Waterford hinterland in South Kilkenny would be part of a much larger Waterford metropolitan area.

I don't think that anyone who has been in Galway recently might agree with you. Certainly Waterford LOOKs more like a city when approaching across Rice Bridge, but the economics and industry do not lie. Galway has an immense (educationally driven again?) media presence. Waterford is invisible.

jmcc

hardybuck wrote: »

So just to round up, you think the results of the Waterford City East Ward in the local election was a telling factor for FG, where they lost one councillor, but don't think it'd anything to do with it being the first time a Deasy didn't run for 40 odd years. Interesting take on things.

The dynamics may be a bit complex but that's what happened.

Transfers to Dunphy weren't none of the above either IMO. It was working class SF vote moving to another party who market towards the same audience.

The transfers in question are the Dunphy/PBP to O'Cathasaigh/Green transfers not the SF->Left transfers.

The point you make about Waterford City actually applies to the whole county, as people in the west of the county appear to have behaved in the exact same way.

Dungarvan is the main population centre in West Waterford. Tramore is effectively a dormer town of Waterford City. The size of the Waterford City vote and its dynamics can cause political upsets when the votes shift en masse.

Regards...jmcc

Gael23

https://www.wlrfm.com/2020/02/26/mary-butler-speaks-out-about-the-kenneally-controversy/

Harry Palmr

azimuth17 wrote: »

Trouble is, it was an old world industry with unsustainable wage rates and prices. And the university bit again, I would suggest that the difference in educational attainment and skills transferability of the Glass versus Digital, was enormous. The historic focus on education in the west versus the south east, which is only now being remedied here, plays a big part in the kind of political class one ends up with. Galway has traditionally had an educated political class. John Halligan proves the point. Well meaning, ends up perfectly placed, but cannot score. Didn't have the smarts.

I'm not arguing with any of the above, my point was the different reaction to a crisis of the main employer going down the tubes.

BBM77

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The city has always had a "Minister for Galway", you can't beat a five seater for getting a seat at the top table. When Digital closed you'd have sworn in was the end of the western seaboards economy such was the media coverage and the plan of action. By contrast when the Glass finally shut it's doors (after successive rounds of redundancies) there was little more than a lament "sure twas an old world industry it couldn't be saved" was there any action to mitigate such a loss? Hell, the workers had to fight tooth and nail for 5 years to get a proper settlement of pensions.

There was action. The government made things worse. They killed the WIT upgrade with their parish-pump merger rubbish, merged the city and county council, when cut backs were needed in health care they were grossly unfair to Waterford, moved the Waterford ETB HQ to Wexford. etc etc

jmcc

azimuth17 wrote: »

I don't think that anyone who has been in Galway recently might agree with you. Certainly Waterford LOOKs more like a city when approaching across Rice Bridge, but the economics and industry do not lie. Galway has an immense (educationally driven again?) media presence. Waterford is invisible.

It is an argument about the voting patterns of a city versus the voting patterns of an area. Waterford has been poorly served by its politicians. Tony O'Reilly tried to get the government to guarantee loans for Waterford Glass but Brian Cowen and his gang turned him down. The education side of Waterford has also been disadvantaged by the gombeen element. WIT had been upgraded from a Regional Technical College but then other RTCs and their politicians got upset and they too had to be upgraded.

Waterford has lost a lot of its industrial base over the last few decades and the lack of a university, despite it having been promised for decades by various parties has also damaged it. People have to go to universities in other counties and often they don't come back. That's a great loss for Waterford. Not only is Waterford losing its industries, it is losing much of its future too.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

Gael23 wrote: »

https://www.wlrfm.com/2020/02/26/mary-butler-speaks-out-about-the-kenneally-controversy/

That was a disaster of an interview. If there's another GE in the next few months, she may well lose her seat over this.

Regards...jmcc

Mysterypunter

The president is from Galway

azimuth17

University again: Michael D.Higgins was born on 18 April 1941 in Limerick.[6] His father, John Higgins, was from Ballycar, County Clare, and was a lieutenant with the Charleville Company, 3rd Battalion, 2nd Cork Brigade of the Irish Republican Army. John, along with his two brothers Peter and Michael, had been active participants in the Irish War of Independence.[7][8]

When John's father's health grew poor, with alcohol as a contributing factor, John sent Michael, aged five, and his four-year-old brother to live on his unmarried uncle and aunt's farm near Newmarket-on-Fergus, County Clare. His elder twin sisters remained in Limerick.[9] He was educated at Ballycar National School, County Clare, and St. Flannan's College, Ennis.

As an undergraduate at University College Galway (UCG), he served as Vice-Auditor of the College's Literary and Debating Society in 1963–64, and rose to the position of Auditor in the 1964–65 academic year. He also served as President of UCG Students' Union in 1964–65. In 1967, Higgins graduated from Indiana University Bloomington with a Master of Arts degree in Sociology.[10] He also briefly attended the University of Manchester.[11]

Mysterypunter

(: associated with Galway.