General Election 2020 - See MOD note in First Post

hardybuck

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i disagree, i believe ffg will continue to block alternatives, possibly indefinitely, i think its gonna be interesting to watch them move slightly to the left on somethings going forward, particularly economically

Do you mean directly block, or not give them sufficient opportunity to get their ideas across?

At the moment it appears they are both agreeing a framework agreement that'll be published and the others can decide to sign up or not.

Wanderer78

hardybuck wrote: »

Do you mean directly block, or not give them sufficient opportunity to get their ideas across?

At the moment it appears they are both agreeing a framework agreement that'll be published and the others can decide to sign up or not.

ffg will continue to use whatever tools they can to block alternatives, whether its directly or otherwise, its more power play than anything, neither party truly wants to give up power and control. i do believe they ll continue in this vain indefinitely, alternatives such as sf may never get their chance. i must also give credit where its due, fg are currently doing extremely well in dealing with this crisis, it ll be interesting to see how they react to the potential economic meltdown afterwards, expect the unexpected, i think we re gonna witness very unusual policies from a more conservative tradition.

BBM77

Wanderer78 wrote: »

alternatives may never have a chance of governance with parties such as ffg

You could argue SF also blocks creditable alternatives like Labour, Social Democrats, Greens and independents from having a chance of govern. I for one am highly sceptical SF ever had any intention of going into government.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

You could argue SF also blocks creditable alternatives like Labour, Social Democrats, Greens and independents from having a chance of govern. I for one am highly sceptical SF ever had any intention of going into government.

sf arent ready for it, theres a lot of maturity needed within that party for governance, but id say the ge shook ffg a bit, and theyre responding very well to it, they ll both come out very strong after this

BBM77

Wanderer78 wrote: »

sf arent ready for it, theres a lot of maturity needed within that party for governance, but id say the ge shook ffg a bit, and theyre responding very well to it, they ll both come out very strong after this

True.

Now that I think about it we had a lucky escape. Imagine if SF had gotten into government and had to deal with the pandemic now. Frightening thought! :eek:

They would probably have recommend the IRA give the virus a punishment beating.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

True.

Now that I think about it we had a lucky escape. Imagine if SF had gotten into government and had to deal with the pandemic now. Frightening thought! :eek:

They would probably recommend the IRA give the virus a punishment beating.

some of the stuff they come out with is truly dreadful, i had to hold my nose while putting them on my ballot paper. the truth is, we ve no real way of knowing how sf would have dealt with this virus, but kudos to fg, they re doing really well

hardybuck

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ffg will continue to use whatever tools they can to block alternatives, whether its directly or otherwise, its more power play than anything, neither party truly wants to give up power and control. i do believe they ll continue in this vain indefinitely, alternatives such as sf may never get their chance. i must also give credit where its due, fg are currently doing extremely well in dealing with this crisis, it ll be interesting to see how they react to the potential economic meltdown afterwards, expect the unexpected, i think we re gonna witness very unusual policies from a more conservative tradition.

But take the Greens for example, they seem to be demanding unity Government or nothing - I don't know what that's about but they seem to be struggling to maintain discipline in the party.

Labour don't want to get involved but haven't really said why. Social Democrats are holding onto this change argument - but they're not rushing into bed with SF, AAA et al either.

SF have written to everyone apparently, so how come they can't form a coalition of the left?

hardybuck

Wanderer78 wrote: »

sf arent ready for it, theres a lot of maturity needed within that party for governance, but id say the ge shook ffg a bit, and theyre responding very well to it, they ll both come out very strong after this

Would agree with FG, but FF have been even more anonymous than SF of late.

SF don't have the squad depth, neither do FF in my opinion.

JeffKenna

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ffg will continue to use whatever tools they can to block alternatives, whether its directly or otherwise, its more power play than anything, neither party truly wants to give up power and control. i do believe they ll continue in this vain indefinitely, alternatives such as sf may never get their chance. i must also give credit where its due, fg are currently doing extremely well in dealing with this crisis, it ll be interesting to see how they react to the potential economic meltdown afterwards, expect the unexpected, i think we re gonna witness very unusual policies from a more conservative tradition.

I fail to see the logic in this argument. SF would get a chance if they had the numbers. They need to find them.

Wanderer78

hardybuck wrote: »

Would agree with FG, but FF have been even more anonymous than SF of late.

SF don't have the squad depth, neither do FF in my opinion.

id agree with this, ff are fairly quiet in all of this, fg are really showing everybody up, and they ll be rewarded by the electorate

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

You could argue SF also blocks creditable alternatives like Labour, Social Democrats, Greens and independents from having a chance of govern. I for one am highly sceptical SF ever had any intention of going into government.

Apparently SF are on an absolute warpath in the North as well, rounding on all of their colleagues in the unity Government up there.

This is a lot more than tension between Michelle and Arlene, they've gone for Robin Swann from the UUP and Naomi Long from Alliance too.

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

True.

Now that I think about it we had a lucky escape. Imagine if SF had gotten into government and had to deal with the pandemic now. Frightening thought! :eek:

They would probably have recommend the IRA give the virus a punishment beating.

No, SF would have disappeared the virus.

Wanderer78

hardybuck wrote: »

No, SF would have disappeared the virus.

in the mountains, apparently

Gavlor

hardybuck wrote: »

But take the Greens for example, they seem to be demanding unity Government or nothing - I don't know what that's about but they seem to be struggling to maintain discipline in the party.

Labour don't want to get involved but haven't really said why. Social Democrats are holding onto this change argument - but they're not rushing into bed with SF, AAA et al either.

SF have written to everyone apparently, so how come they can't form a coalition of the left?

Labour had such a poor election that getting to government is the last thing they need. The smallest parry always gets hockeyed. Kelly is spot on with the confidence and supply agreement which will enable them determine the timing of the next election. He’ll obviously hope to have raised to profile of a few candidates over that period. I’m not a labour voter fwiw but I think it’s the right call.

hardybuck

Gavlor wrote: »

Labour had such a poor election that getting to government is the last thing they need. The smallest parry always gets hockeyed. Kelly is spot on with the confidence and supply agreement which will enable them determine the timing of the next election. He’ll obviously hope to have raised to profile of a few candidates over that period. I’m not a labour voter fwiw but I think it’s the right call.

Sure we'll never have a Government so if nobody wants to step up.

Gavlor

hardybuck wrote: »

Sure we'll never have a Government so if nobody wants to step up.

Fake news. With labour C&S it will only require 2 independents for a FG/FG majority which is after all what the majority voted for

stayback

Gavlor wrote: »

Fake news. With labour C&S it will only require 2 independents for a FG/FG majority which is after all what the majority voted for

This government is going to require 90 seats/votes to have a comfortable majority. There will be a few rebels aka john Mcguinness , dev og (Eamon o curio) etc. There will be rebels in both FF/FG. So having the bare 80 won’t be enough. Hard decision and very unpopular decisions will have to be made in the coming years.

I can’t see anything but another election on the horizons when the current crisis is over.

MM will probably split FF if he goes into power with FG. A split they will never come back from.

Jamie2k9

They are mixing it up this week.

Today our Green TD has come out of hiding and moaning about pandemic payment and Matt Shanahan earlier in the week. Both speaking in the Dail been reported.

Marc will have to prove himself as FG will likely win his seat next time round if they have a good candidate or if SF run a second.

On a side note we might just end up with Butler, Shanahan, Ó'Cathasaigh if things go like many would expect in terms of Government formation.

hardybuck

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They are mixing it up this week.

Today our Green TD has come out of hiding and moaning about pandemic payment and Matt Shanahan earlier in the week. Both speaking in the Dail been reported.

Marc will have to prove himself as FG will likely win his seat next time round if they have a good candidate or if SF run a second.

On a side note we might just end up with Butler, Shanahan, Ó'Cathasaigh if things go like many would expect in terms of Government formation.

In the event of a coalition of FG, FF, Green and independents I would expect to see at least two if not three of them on the back benches.

debok

Butler didn't come across great on tiernan today. She gets flustered very easy and with the right interviewer she can be made look very amateurish. Not a hope of her being a minister. I know she's from Waterford but for the countries sake, surely the bar will be set higher than her level

hardybuck

debok wrote: »

Butler didn't come across great on tiernan today. She gets flustered very easy and with the right interviewer she can be made look very amateurish. Not a hope of her being a minister. I know she's from Waterford but for the countries sake, surely the bar will be set higher than her level

Very unlikely there would be anything for her.

Maybe at a push a Minister of State position somewhere anonymous that would keep her occupied but out of trouble.

kayaksurfbum

hardybuck wrote: »

Very unlikely there would be anything for her.

Maybe at a push a Minister of State position somewhere anonymous that would keep her occupied but out of trouble.

Did she ever find the facebook hacker? :rolleyes:

Jamie2k9

Despite him been part of SF I still held him in high regard as a TD but what a ill judged tweet and shows he isn't very business savvy.

https://twitter.com/davidcullinane/status/1252298689151991812

One side of his mouth, taxpayers shouldn't bail out the banks. Banks should write off debit and cut rates. On the other when a bank cuts its losses and have likely lost a lot of cash already he isn't happy.

Rather ironic he wants the Brits to prop them up...

hardybuck

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Despite him been part of SF I still held him in high regard as a TD but what a ill judged tweet and shows he isn't very business savvy.

https://twitter.com/davidcullinane/status/1252298689151991812

One side of his mouth, taxpayers shouldn't bail out the banks. Banks should write off debit and cut rates. On the other when a bank cuts its losses and have likely lost a lot of cash already he isn't happy.

Rather ironic he wants the Brits to prop them up...

When he says support, what does he mean?

Jamie2k9

The Green Party...will do a great service for there voters in Waterford :rolleyes:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/greens-set-out-demands-for-entering-coalition-government-39151541.html

Quigs Snr

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The Green Party...will do a great service for there voters in Waterford :rolleyes:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/greens-set-out-demands-for-entering-coalition-government-39151541.html

This guy is the biggest spanner in Ireland. Grandstanding is all. They should re-run the election at the next opportunity.

hardybuck

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The Green Party...will do a great service for there voters in Waterford :rolleyes:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/greens-set-out-demands-for-entering-coalition-government-39151541.html

What did you want?

friendlyfun

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The Green Party...will do a great service for there voters in Waterford :rolleyes:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/greens-set-out-demands-for-entering-coalition-government-39151541.html

Marc actually seems committed to his county. In the debates he usually came across as the best spoken and among the most level-headed of the candidates. Now the leader of the Green party is quite clearly a fruitcake, but I do think Marc will represent this city with distinction. He isn't a politician who decided to hijack a single issue for his own political career, nor would he would he be someone who would deny the Irish electoral the right to vote on a seriously pressing social issue.

hardybuck

friendlyfun wrote: »

Marc actually seems committed to his county. In the debates he usually came across as the best spoken and among the most level-headed of the candidates. Now the leader of the Green party is quite clearly a fruitcake, but I do think Marc will represent this city with distinction. He isn't a politician who decided to hijack a single issue for his own political career, nor would he would he be someone who would deny the Irish electoral the right to vote on a seriously pressing social issue.

Sure if the fella isn't banging his hand on the table, and constantly bleating in the media demanding a University and 24/7, he mustn't be doing his job...:D

Gavlor

friendlyfun wrote: »

Marc actually seems committed to his county. In the debates he usually came across as the best spoken and among the most level-headed of the candidates. Now the leader of the Green party is quite clearly a fruitcake, but I do think Marc will represent this city with distinction. He isn't a politician who decided to hijack a single issue for his own political career, nor would he would he be someone who would deny the Irish electoral the right to vote on a seriously pressing social issue.

Very well said Marc