Driving license expired

Dig all

Pensioner driving on a expired provisional licence, what's the consequences of getting stopped at a check point, definitely not covered by insurance?

elperello

Dig all wrote: »

Pensioner driving on a expired provisional licence, what's the consequences of getting stopped at a check point, definitely not covered by insurance?

Car impounded.
Summons for no licence and no insurance.
Summons for owner of car also.

(edit: seriously just stop doing it)

salmocab

Why would you think being a pensioner was relevantl?
Also not driving on an expired provisional it’s driving without a license

Lenar3556

salmocab wrote: »

Why would you think being a pensioner was relevantl?
Also not driving on an expired provisional it’s driving without a license

Being an old age pensioner could impact on how the Garda would propose to deal with matter. From experience it would also tend to impact on how the courts would look upon it.

The principle offence here is driving unaccompanied. (and I’m presuming this to have been the case)

The above would not automatically invalidate a motor insurance policy - Although there may be a breech of terms which could give rise to issues between the driver and his insurer, particularly if there were to have been a claim.

Boxcar_Willie

Lenar3556 wrote: »

Being an old age pensioner could impact on how the Garda would propose to deal with matter. From experience it would also tend to impact on how the courts would look upon it.

The principle offence here is driving unaccompanied. (and I’m presuming this to have been the case)

The above would not automatically invalidate a motor insurance policy - Although there may be a breech of terms which could give rise to issues between the driver and his insurer, particularly if there were to have been a claim.

Not insured

Bottom line on certificate of insurance reads :
"Provided the driver holds a licence to drive such a vehicle , and having held a licence is not disqualified from driving"

tuxy

An expired driving licence does not invalidate your insurance. You will have 3rd party cover at least.
That disclaimer covers someone who never had a valid licence or has been disqualified.
Of course driving without a licence is an offence.

elperello

OP states that the driver is "definitely not covered by insurance".

tuxy

elperello wrote: »

OP states that the driver is "definitely not covered by insurance".

The question mark would indicate a question.

twowheelsonly

elperello wrote: »

OP states that the driver is "definitely not covered by insurance".

I think the OP is asking if that is the case rather than stating it to be. Can be read both ways though.

Another point is that it will depend on how long the licence is expired. A week, not too bad. Ten years, not too good...

elperello

tuxy wrote: »

The question mark would indicate a question.

You could be right.

I took it that the question was what are the consequences of getting stopped with an expired licence and no insurance

"Pensioner driving on a expired provisional licence, what's the consequences of getting stopped at a check point, definitely not covered by insurance?"


OP might care to clarify.

tuxy

One answer is he will be covered 3rd party even with an expired licence once the policy was taken out legally.
He can not be prosecuted for no insurance if he has 3rd party cover.
He can be prosecuted for driving with an expired licence, no points and a small fine.

If no insurance policy at all then it is more serious, 5 points and a court fine of a few hundred euro on first offence I believe.

Del2005

tuxy wrote: »

An expired driving licence does not invalidate your insurance. You will have 3rd party cover at least.
That disclaimer covers someone who never had a valid licence or has been disqualified.
Of course driving without a licence is an offence.

They don't have an expired licence though. They have an expired learners permit, I hope it's not an expired provisional!, and that requires you to be accompanied for the insurance to be valid, if it is in date. Any 3rd party will be covered in an RTC, with the insurance companies recouping the cost from uninsured driver, but get stopped by the Gardai its no insurance so 5 points and the car lifted.

But everyone is missing the important bit. If they never passed our relatively easy driving test how bad a driver are they.

tuxy

Del2005 wrote: »

They don't have an expired licence though. They have an expired learners permit, I hope it's not an expired provisional!, and that requires you to be accompanied for the insurance to be valid, if it is in date. Any 3rd party will be covered in an RTC, with the insurance companies recouping the cost from uninsured driver, but get stopped by the Gardai its no insurance so 5 points and the car lifted.

I don't believe that is correct. Unaccompanied driver on a learners permit is 2 points and 4 if you fail an appeal in court.

You can not be prosecuted for no insurance once you are covered 3rd party.

I've had friends stopped unaccompanied and they have all just taken the 2 points, learnt from it and moved on.

If a learner was in an accident unaccompanied their insurance would pay out for the 3rd party if their policy holder had any blame and then possibly cancel the policy.
The driver would always have to answer yes when asked if they had ever had a policy cancelled. It could take then some time to get insurance again.

elperello

There is a story behind this which we may hear later.

In the meantime it is giving me flashbacks.
Some years back I was driving along minding my own business when going around a bend I was taken out by a pensioner who crossed over to my side of the road.
Two cars written off, pensioner taken away in ambulance full recovery later, me ok.
When the court case came up it transpired that the old guy never had a licence but used his nephews (same name) licence to take out an insurance policy.
Needless to say the whole episode cost him a lot including never driving again.

whomitconcerns

If you’ve only ever held a permit or a provisional then you have never held a licence. Any insurance cover would be invalid. Company would pay out third party and come after you for all the costs. Other than that charges for no license, no insurance, etc. Pensioners or not

seamus

Being a pensioner can actually get someone leeway on this, even nowadays. My grandfather went to a number of different GPs to pass his medical for his licence despite having quite advanced Parkinsons, and then promptly had a daydream while driving and crashed his car into a wall. Garda agreed not to do anything about it if he agreed to give up the licence and the insurance paid for the wall.

Although Gardai are more inclined to prosecute these days, I'd say that if the pensioner appears at all elderly and frail and it's a more rural setting, then an agreement with the Gardai to abandon the licence and sell the car might be enough to avoid court.

GM228

tuxy wrote: »

You can not be prosecuted for no insurance once you are covered 3rd party.

Yes you can, but it very much depends on the wording of the contract of insurance, as noted the hold or held condition is usually enough though.

Driving unaccompanied with a learner permit also creates a unique situation that when driving unaccompanied (or even without L plates) renders the licence "void", however it will not automatically invalidate an insurance policy, as I said that will depend on the wording of the contract of insurance.

tuxy

whomitconcerns wrote: »

If you’ve only ever held a permit or a provisional then you have never held a licence. Any insurance cover would be invalid. Company would pay out third party and come after you for all the costs. Other than that charges for no license, no insurance, etc. Pensioners or not

Not true as you can legally take out an insurance policy while having only a permit

jimmycrackcorm

whomitconcerns wrote: »

If you’ve only ever held a permit or a provisional then you have never held a licence. Any insurance cover would be invalid. Company would pay out third party and come after you for all the costs. Other than that charges for no license, no insurance, etc. Pensioners or not

Then that would imply that every single BV provisional driver is not validly insured.

Del2005

tuxy wrote: »

Not true as you can legally take out an insurance policy while having only a permit

You can take out a policy but if you aren't driving according to the permit or licence then you have wasted your money. While 3rd parties in an RTC are covered if you are stopped by the Gardai when not complying with your permit/licence your insurance is void.

GM228

Del2005 wrote: »

You can take out a policy but if you aren't driving according to the permit or licence then you have wasted your money. While 3rd parties in an RTC are covered if you are stopped by the Gardai when not complying with your permit/licence your insurance is void.

This is not true, yes you can be prosecuted for driving without a licence, but so long as you didn't breach any terms of the insurance contract you can't be prosecuted for driving without insurance when driving unaccompanied.

whomitconcerns

tuxy wrote: »

Not true as you can legally take out an insurance policy while having only a permit

Never said you couldn’t. But your insurance policy is based on you having a learners permit, not a license in that case.

Therefore the licence point exemption wouldn’t apply, or at least I wouldn’t want to be arguing that in front of a judge when the insurance company is seeking to recover from you...

whomitconcerns

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Then that would imply that every single BV provisional driver is not validly insured.

No it wouldn’t. Permit holders insurance is based on them holding a learners permit, not a driving licence

coylemj

GM228 wrote: »

Driving unaccompanied with a learner permit also creates a unique situation that when driving unaccompanied (or even without L plates) renders the licence "void".....

If that was the case, there would not be a separate offence of driving on a learner permit while unaccompanied. Because your (now void) learner permit would count for nothing i.e. you'd be in the same boat as someone who had no permit at all, expired or current.

GM228

coylemj wrote: »

If that was the case, there would not be a separate offence of driving on a learner permit while unaccompanied. Because your (now void) learner permit would count for nothing i.e. you'd be in the same boat as someone who had no permit at all, expired or current.

It is the case as per S42 (2)(k) of the Road Traffic Act 1961.

The fact a permit may be rendered void has nothing to do with the offence of driving unaccompanied.