Election called for Saturday 8 February

smurgen

Idbatterim wrote: »

Right, so the plan is to build expensive social housing at great expense, and then let them pay virtually nothing for it? Meaning that other people that have paid way more than their fair share are paying for it and meaning way less accommodation can be provided for other people that are on the list or wouldnt qualify for it

Basically give many , many who dont work a lottery ticket and FCUK the others?

We'll be paying anyways. As it stands we're housing emergency accommodation in hotels due to fine Gael policy not to build social housing.propping up their hotelier friends.
With increased social housing it will mean that there'll be more housing supply that will reduce aggregate rents. Even for those of us working or asses off.

Calhoun

is_that_so wrote: »

Well thank you for that very unique view of the world.

No problem at all, it's making the news tonight so thought I'd comment on it in thread. It's great we can have these conversations.

smurgen wrote: »

The fine gaelers would probably tell ya that our homeless mortality rate and teenage dismembering rate is in line with that of other countries like that's meant to be good enough or some sort of reassurance.

Leo himself passed the buck to the Lord mayor of Dublin, so like it or not they are all jumping on him for it. The teenager one hits right at their party of law and order, and the farmers would be their traditional support. I would assume they will try and smooth it over but will it resonate as much as the stories happening today who knows.

JohnnyFlash

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are you confused by the term 'workers'?

If I may, you really are just phoning it in these days.

No, I’m not confused. It’s in Marx, dude. If you are able to work then you work. Lads certainly wouldn’t have the leisure of sitting around on their hole all day giving out about stuff. To each according to their need and all that. It’s not even obscure socialist doctrine, dude.

If I may, you’re coming across as increasingly hysterical. No website or indeed politics should make someone so angry.

Plumbthedepths

smurgen wrote: »

We'll be paying anyways. As it stands we're housing emergency accommodation in hotels due to fine Gael policy not to build social housing.propping up their hotelier friends.
With increased social housing it will mean that there'll be more housing supply that will reduce aggregate rents. Even for those of us working or asses off.

Way to much sense in that post. Amazing that some think that working person got a social house.

blanch152

Odhinn wrote: »

Where, in that article, did he 'advocate letting people decide not to work'?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Not in that article.
FYI one of the top Jobbridge lads was using them more than every other business to fill his offices with tax payer paid jobbridge staff. I suppose the tax payer giving free labour to private business is cool. Beats giving people a job right?

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I know this may prove troublesome for you but can you point out in the article you linked where he advocates for letting people decide whether to work or not. I tried but I can't find it.

JobBridge was one of a number of schemes which worked very effectively to get those outside the workforce back to being contributors to society. Those who opposed it, as Paul Murphy did, were essentially advocating for letting people decide not to work.

Plumbthedepths

blanch152 wrote: »

JobBridge was one of a number of schemes which worked very effectively to get those outside the workforce back to being contributors to society. Those who opposed it, as Paul Murphy did, were essentially advocating for letting people decide not to work.

Oh so you believe he was advocating for people to decide whether to work or not. Just your opinion so. That's grand.

blanch152

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Oh so you believe he was advocating for people to decide whether to work or not. Just your opinion so. That's grand.

To be fair, the evidence to back up my opinion is there.

saabsaab

Anyone for a BER tax linked with the LPT. The better the BER the les tax you pay/the worse the BER the more you pay.

jimmycrackcorm

Water John wrote: »

The problem with, common sense, is that, it isn't very common.

If the comments section on the journal is any measure then it doesn't actually exist

Plumbthedepths

blanch152 wrote: »

To be fair, the evidence to back up my opinion is there.

It not actually, he was against the exploitation that was part and parcel of the scheme. Only the blinkered would suggest the exploitation didn't happen.

boggerman1

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Ryan never suggested taking your "dirty diesel" is was a suggestion you'd have the option to use a car from the pool. Car pooling seems to work in Dublin, why can't it work in other towns?

I’m a farmer so another reason for the green cult to hate me.i need my car to do my business and from time to time I could need my car in an emergency be it a cow calving and I away from farm to getting medicine from vets etc.where the hell would car pooling work for me.car pooling might work in Dublin but you also have the dart,luas,train and buses.heard another green candidate on the radio this evening saying that money shouldn’t be spent in mayo on road improvements.the rest of Ireland does deserve to have safe roads as much as inside the m50.until the greens come into the real world they will be for the birds

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

No, I’m not confused. It’s in Marx, dude. If you are able to work then you work. Lads certainly wouldn’t have the leisure of sitting around on their hole all day giving out about stuff. To each according to their need and all that. It’s not even obscure socialist doctrine, dude.

If I may, you’re coming across as increasingly hysterical. No website or indeed politics should make someone so angry.

Great so, what's the problem? In case you were unaware, the original comment suggested the left were for people who didn't want to work.
Then we'd a lad say Paul Murphy advocated people not wanting to work, which he never of course.
Now you're agreeing with me. Cool.
I'm not angry, in fact I like than Sinn Fein, Labour and others are pushing social housing. I might give Labour a low level nod and bring SF up a notch.

NovemberWren

is_that_so wrote: »

Like what?

yes. not ff or fg.

I have looked at youtube - The National Party.
This Justin Barrett is a cuddly muppet and James Reynolds, a rare 'ul farmer countryman.
The pair of them, are; anoraks. A most rare find in these days.
More of a patriot mould maybe, than politician.

Of course, they dopily approach the immigration issue way too brusquely; but, after all, it is kinda' amazing when Simon Coveney in the Dail in November '18 said that "an extra 500,000 migrants will be arriving from 2020 to 2040".
Maybe that should be debated mainly from a numbers point of view.

Although, (and I am not certain about this), that the EU will give E50billion for this.

Though I doubt that the migrants will barely see a penny; and it will mostly go into the pockets of ........ ffg investors.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

JobBridge was one of a number of schemes which worked very effectively to get those outside the workforce back to being contributors to society. Those who opposed it, as Paul Murphy did, were essentially advocating for letting people decide not to work.

Bollocks.

Jobbbridge was a farce. Either way, critics of a system are just that.

'Far from perfect' JobBridge scheme to be scrapped - Leo Varadkar
Social Protection Minister Leo Varadkar has announced that he is to set-up a consultation process with a view to finding a replacement programme which will begin in the middle of next year.

The minister was speaking at the publication of a new report on JobsBridge which found that while most participants had a positive experience, the scheme was abused by some employers.

blanch152 wrote: »

To be fair, the evidence to back up my opinion is there.

Isn't it's hole.

Idbatterim

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The current plan is an expense on expensive apartment leases and buying for the same people. These people will be housed. Do you want to build our own for them or lease and buy for them? That's the options.

I totally agree, they should be put in state built housing, pay appropriate rents, actually pay them and the housing stock should never be sold off! of course, as they have been sitting on their hands for years, it will obviously take years to be able to wean themselves off private housing or hotels etc. In all likelihood, it will never happen...

Honestly matt, because we agree on a lot. Housing I would see as the new health, there are now going to be two black holes , instead of one. They wont change the system, its an idiotic system, but it wont happen...

I am looking forward to seeing how it all pans out, but this is what I predict, with a need for big infrastructure spending, health a black hole and housing is going to become a black hole, they dont want to increase taxes, and the only one I would agree with, would be a site value tax. the way I see it, they are going to have barely any money for welfare increases,even with the booming economy. looks like FFG are in agreement with the grey vote fiver...

I think they have given themselves virtually no room to maneuver

smurgen

Thank God Leo and Fine Gael are going after the big fish anyway https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-300000-recouped-since-welfare-cheat-ads-campaign-was-launched-38855706.html

300k should cover Dara Murphy's double jobbing cost, inflated expenses of Alan Farrell and a golden handshake for Maria Bailey.

Idbatterim

smurgen wrote: »

We'll be paying anyways. As it stands we're housing emergency accommodation in hotels due to fine Gael policy not to build social housing.propping up their hotelier friends.
With increased social housing it will mean that there'll be more housing supply that will reduce aggregate rents. Even for those of us working or asses off.

wont happen, if you agree with building more social housing, fine. But and another poster really nailed this, there is going to be a never ending and growing conveyor belt of people looking for social housing, because its so cheap and the rental market is so insane, there is no middle ground, get state housing for as good as free, or pay a fortune for mostly poor standard accommodation, even if you are low income worker...

thequarefellow

boggerman1 wrote: »

I’m a farmer so another reason for the green cult to hate me.i need my car to do my business and from time to time I could need my car in an emergency be it a cow calving and I away from farm to getting medicine from vets etc.where the hell would car pooling work for me.car pooling might work in Dublin but you also have the dart,luas,train and buses.heard another green candidate on the radio this evening saying that money shouldn’t be spent in mayo on road improvements.the rest of Ireland does deserve to have safe roads as much as inside the m50.until the greens come into the real world they will be for the birds

Ah give it a rest will ya? Nobody suggested you should get rid of your car. I'm no fan of Ryan but he was suggesting car pooling as an added option. Car pooling exists in Cork and Dublin and I'm pretty sure there are still private cars in Cork and Dublin. As for 'another green candidate on the radio this evening saying that money shouldn’t be spent in mayo on road improvements'. Really? Did he/she really say that?

smurgen

Idbatterim wrote: »

wont happen, if you agree with building more social housing, fine. But and another poster really nailed this, there is going to be a never ending and growing conveyor belt of people looking for social housing, because its so cheap and the rental market is so insane, there is no middle ground, get state housing for as good as free, or pay a fortune for mostly poor standard accommodation, even if you are low income worker...

So your suggestion for the taxpayer is to keep paying sky high rents and keep having their tax revenue gobbled up.great.

jimmycrackcorm

Kivaro wrote: »

Social housing. Social housing. Social housing.
That seems to be the dominant issue for the electorate based on the main TV3 (Virgin) News coverage at 5:30 pm this evening. They had TV cameras following politicians knocking at doors during work hours on a Wednesday, which is probably why social housing came up at the doorsteps.

The Labour’s party plan is to spend €16bn over five years to build 80,000 social and affordable houses. Sinn Fein wants to build 100,000 social houses.
This does not matter for the overwhelming majority of voters, except for the fact that they will be paying for these fanciful policies if either of these parties get into a coalition government.

We do need a housing solution. The current mechanism of forcing 10 or 20 percent of private housing for social needs doesn't work on many levels. At its most absurd a private development of ten million euro houses, that one or two goes to people on the dole is ridiculous.

The basic idea is ok, ie mixed development but private development should be left to those that can afford it.

What a government should be doing is repurposing NAMA, now that it's job is done, to build housing at scale for both affordable and social purposes.
NAMA can borrow at the lowest rates, build at economies of scale and ordinary workers can choose to buy at affordable prices along with delivering social housing for those that need it.

But doing so, I think NAMA could even make a profit for the tax payer. Everyone gets what they need.

Water John

Amazing that Ireland built a lot of social housing in the 1930s when it had very little. Once we exited the downturn, the Gov't should have stepped in, about 2015. Those first house plans would now be lived in, and the rent in the private sector kept down.

thequarefellow

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

We do need a housing solution. The current mechanism of forcing 10 or 20 percent of private housing for social needs doesn't work on many levels. At its most absurd a private development of ten million euro houses, that one or two goes to people on the dole is ridiculous.

The basic idea is ok, ie mixed development but private development should be left to those that can afford it.

What a government should be doing is repurposing NAMA, now that it's job is done, to build housing at scale for both affordable and social purposes.
NAMA can borrow at the lowest rates, build at economies of scale and ordinary workers can choose to buy at affordable prices along with delivering social housing for those that need it.

But doing so, I think NAMA could even make a profit for the tax payer. Everyone gets what they need.

Sensible. In your view, is any party/politician suggesting anything remotely like this? (Who are you gonna vote for:)?

Idbatterim

smurgen wrote: »

So your suggestion for the taxpayer is to keep paying sky high rents and keep having their tax revenue gobbled up.great.

no thats not what I want, its clearly madness, we all agree on that! But you actually think, the state is going to, capable or even wants to provide, the insane kind of number of units, that you would need? to get away from renting property?!

Its wishful thinking, but we know how this country works, it is an absurd notion, IN THIS COUNTRY...

Look, so much of what you guys talk about makes sense, it is how it often how things are done in other well run countries. But we are not well run and there are multiple reasons why things wont change, first and foremost, that those that make the decisions, dont want fundamental change and honestly, they have the biggest lie down and take it roll over electorate on the planet. I include myself in that, they only thing that will change things here fundamentally is massive people power, when we go to the ballot boxes on the 8th February, the only change there might be, is swapping FF for FG as senior party!

Expecting the other fools to do anything better, is insanity, I actually expect, they would do an even worse job!

James Brown

Idbatterim wrote: »

I totally agree, they should be put in state built housing, pay appropriate rents, actually pay them and the housing stock should never be sold off! of course, as they have been sitting on their hands for years, it will obviously take years to be able to wean themselves off private housing or hotels etc. In all likelihood, it will never happen...

Honestly matt, because we agree on a lot. Housing I would see as the new health, there are now going to be two black holes , instead of one. They wont change the system, its an idiotic system, but it wont happen...

I am looking forward to seeing how it all pans out, but this is what I predict, with a need for big infrastructure spending, health a black hole and housing is going to become a black hole, they dont want to increase taxes, and the only one I would agree with, would be a site value tax. the way I see it, they are going to have barely any money for welfare increases,even with the booming economy. looks like FFG are in agreement with the grey vote fiver...

I think they have given themselves virtually no room to maneuver

To be clear, I'm all for tossing out anyone not paying rent. Also arrears should be sought and not allowed go more than a few months in arrears in the first place.
This is about fixing what we have instead of leaving it fester to use as an excuse to fill the pockets of vulture funds and developer pals with tax payer money, IMO.
Blaming the recipients is a nonsense. They don't represent us.

Anybody, working or not, found eligible based on income should have social housing rentals made available.
Eligibility based on income and situation. Shocker, we already have this, it's just not policed well and we've no stock to speak of, so we lease, buy and rent hotel rooms.

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

Thank God Leo and Fine Gael are going after the big fish anyway https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-300000-recouped-since-welfare-cheat-ads-campaign-was-launched-38855706.html

300k should cover Dara Murphy's double jobbing cost, inflated expenses of Alan Farrell and a golden handshake for Maria Bailey.

You're codding yourself. We've no magic money tree to be wasting on ....oh wait, soz.

Idbatterim

https://eirigi.org/latestnews/2019/8/7/government-housing-policy-explained-part-three-#

900,000,000 a year spent on HAP in 2019. Matt they will have a world class health service, before the notion of them no longer renting private property becomes a reality! You know what, I reckon I have better odds of guessing the euro millions numbers for the next draw, than them EVER doing anything fundamentally different with housing. We have large immigration, we have rip off housing for hundreds of thousands, we have virtually free housing for many (I am blaming the system here, you are right). So how many homes, would actually have to be built, to get us off private interest dependency?

while the lists grow every day and we have a skilled labour shortage.

As I write this, I feel I should just discuss something else, as what we are discussing, is such fantasy land stuff in this country!

Lackey

saabsaab wrote: »

No. Not at all, they will have to co-operate with any main party in Government. What's loopy is leaving things as they are as we go off the cliff.

Taxing average Irish joe into oblivion is not going to change the facts

https://gulfnews.com/p...572250802844?slide=9

All it does is tax Irish joe into oblivion.

Im all for greener living
but
It’s not rocket science even kids at the students council said taxing people is not the answer.
Irish Children came up with better ideas than the greens.

thequarefellow

Lackey wrote: »

Taxing average Irish joe into oblivion is not going to change the facts

https://gulfnews.com/p...572250802844?slide=9


Irish Children came up with better ideas than the greens.

Really? What did they suggest?

(Your Gulf News Link doesn't work by the way)

Phoebas

smurgen wrote: »

Thank God Leo and Fine Gael are going after the big fish anyway https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-300000-recouped-since-welfare-cheat-ads-campaign-was-launched-38855706.html

300k should cover Dara Murphy's double jobbing cost, inflated expenses of Alan Farrell and a golden handshake for Maria Bailey.

Did you actually read past the headline?
€300k in repayments. €7,000k in savings.

smurgen

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://eirigi.org/latestnews/2019/8/7/government-housing-policy-explained-part-three-#

900,000,000 a year spent on HAP in 2019. Matt they will have a world class health service, before the notion of them no longer renting private property becomes a reality! You know what, I reckon I have better odds of guessing the euro millions numbers for the next draw, than them EVER doing anything fundamentally different with housing. We have large immigration, we have rip off housing for hundreds of thousands, we have virtually free housing for many (I am blaming the system here, you are right). So how many homes, would actually have to be built, to get us off private interest dependency?

while the lists grow every day and we have a skilled labour shortage.

As I write this, I feel I should just discuss something else, as what we are discussing, is such fantasy land stuff in this country!

well when you have a leader who is still coming to terms with people leaving the royal family I suppose affordable housing for the vast majority of the population probably will remain a pipedream.