Election called for Saturday 8 February

LeinsterDub

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'm cool with high taxes if we get value for money. That's the trick.

The greens are too one dimensional.
People equate environmental policies with high tax because grubby governments use the environment as a reason to stick it to the public for more money. Irish Water, plastic bags fee, white products like the recycling isn't added on top. Nice ideas abused by greedy people with no interest in the environment IMO.

Irish Water was the IMF's idea nothing to do with the environment. The plastic bag levy has been a massive success and good for the environment, costs most people basically nothing. And wasn't it a FF policy? As for white products they are free to recycle. So yet again I'm left wondering what your issue is?

McMurphy

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Irish Water was the IMF's idea nothing to do with the environment. The plastic bag levy has been a massive success and good for the environment, costs most people basically nothing. And wasn't it a FF policy? As for white products they are free to recycle. So yet again I'm left wondering what your issue is?

Maybe you mean it was the IMFs idea of making homeowners pay directly for water in and out of their houses?

But if you have a source that the IMF came up with Irish Water, (and all the controversies surrounding it) - I'd love to see it. The water charges issues ran a lot deeper than just "Irish Water" - the company.

The water privatisation battle has been fought and lost because of the incompetence of the last govt, hardly much need to revisit it for another few decades.

LeinsterDub

McMurphy wrote: »

Maybe you mean it was the IMFs idea of making homeowners pay directly for water in and out of their houses?

But if you have a source that the IMF came up with Irish Water, (and all the controversies surrounding it) - I'd love to see it. The water charges issues ran a lot deeper than just "Irish Water" - the company.

The water privatisation battle has been fought and lost because of the incompetence of the last govt, hardly much need to revisit it for another few decades.

And this has what to do with the Greens?

McMurphy

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And this has what to do with the Greens?

Sweet fcuk all, but I never mentioned the Greens, I responded to this:

Irish Water was the IMF's idea nothing to do with the environment.

LeinsterDub

McMurphy wrote: »

Sweet fcuk all, but I never mentioned the Greens, I responded to this:

Which was a response to the suggestion that the Greens are high tax. I agree with you that the IMF didn't mandate the **** show that is Irish Water

Idbatterim

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/fine-gael-to-promise-tax-cut-that-will-see-3000-more-in-workers-pockets-38869475.html

FCUK FF, FG will do more than FF for workers thats for sure. FF want less tax cuts for workers, to improve services, the vast majority of which the workers wont receive!

any spending needs to go on better infrastructure, reducing cost of child care etc, affordable housing etc. Where will it go?

Thrown to areas, that are already massive black holes, like welfare! FCUK this country! What a surprise when FIFTY percent of the population receive some sort of welfare payment!

What a shock when these morons now knocking on peoples doors hear " we want better services" and we want other people to pay for them, what a shock!

Any doubt I have had in my head is removed! Im voting FG, yeah they are crap, but FF again? to potentially bust the economy and do nothing but reward those not struggling? LOL!

rob316

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/fine-gael-to-promise-tax-cut-that-will-see-3000-more-in-workers-pockets-38869475.html

FCUK FF, FG will do more than FF for workers thats for sure. FF want less tax cuts for workers, to improve services, the vast majority of which the workers wont receive!

any spending needs to go on better infrastructure, reducing cost of child care etc, affordable housing etc. Where will it go?

Thrown to areas, that are already massive black holes, like welfare! FCUK this country! What a surprise when FIFTY percent of the population receive some sort of welfare payment!

What a shock when these morons knock on peoples doors, " we want better servies" and we want other people to pay for them, what a shock!

This is the same party that said they would abolish USC the last time. I'd take anything with a large grain of salt. Raising the higer tax bracket to 50k is fantasy stuff aswell in my eyes.

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/fine-gael-to-promise-tax-cut-that-will-see-3000-more-in-workers-pockets-38869475.html

FCUK FF, FG will do more than FF for workers thats for sure. FF want less tax cuts for workers, to improve services, the vast majority of which the workers wont receive!

any spending needs to go on better infrastructure, reducing cost of child care etc, affordable housing etc. Where will it go?

Thrown to areas, that are already massive black holes, like welfare! FCUK this country! What a surprise when FIFTY percent of the population receive some sort of welfare payment!

What a shock when these morons now knocking on peoples doors hear " we want better services" and we want other people to pay for them, what a shock!

Any doubt I have had in my head is removed! Im voting FG, yeah they are crap, but FF again? to potentially bust the economy and do nothing but reward those not struggling? LOL!

What rewards have you gotten from 9 years of FG?
Housing, transport, climate and health crisis seems to be the reward.

Plumbthedepths

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/fine-gael-to-promise-tax-cut-that-will-see-3000-more-in-workers-pockets-38869475.html

FCUK FF, FG will do more than FF for workers thats for sure. FF want less tax cuts for workers, to improve services, the vast majority of which the workers wont receive!

any spending needs to go on better infrastructure, reducing cost of child care etc, affordable housing etc. Where will it go?

Thrown to areas, that are already massive black holes, like welfare! FCUK this country! What a surprise when FIFTY percent of the population receive some sort of welfare payment!

What a shock when these morons now knocking on peoples doors hear " we want better services" and we want other people to pay for them, what a shock!

Any doubt I have had in my head is removed! Im voting FG, yeah they are crap, but FF again? to potentially bust the economy and do nothing but reward those not struggling? LOL!

So Leo told you he wants to look after the people that get up early but he didn't, I have seen you reference that on multiple occasions when ranting about social welfare. Workers got nothing in the last budget, but now in the midst of an election you believe Leo and the lads are going to look after workers this time? Are you seriously that gullible?

lawred2

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/fine-gael-to-promise-tax-cut-that-will-see-3000-more-in-workers-pockets-38869475.html

FCUK FF, FG will do more than FF for workers thats for sure. FF want less tax cuts for workers, to improve services, the vast majority of which the workers wont receive!

any spending needs to go on better infrastructure, reducing cost of child care etc, affordable housing etc. Where will it go?

Thrown to areas, that are already massive black holes, like welfare! FCUK this country! What a surprise when FIFTY percent of the population receive some sort of welfare payment!

What a shock when these morons now knocking on peoples doors hear " we want better services" and we want other people to pay for them, what a shock!

Any doubt I have had in my head is removed! Im voting FG, yeah they are crap, but FF again? to potentially bust the economy and do nothing but reward those not struggling? LOL!

Well I don't know but I've heard countless such promises from FG about 'rewarding' work and 'cutting' taxes

Haven't seen any of them make it as far as the reality stage though..

The latest pledge to increase the 20% band up to 50k is laughable in extreme... the rate they are moving at - that would be 2035 at the earliest..

lawred2

rob316 wrote: »

This is the same party that said they would abolish USC the last time. I'd take anything with a large grain of salt. Raising the higer tax bracket to 50k is fantasy stuff aswell in my eyes.

The USC was the one fair tax - everyone paid it. Everyone paid in a little to the system.

And those that benefit the most from the system were asked for a small contribution.

But in typical Irish fashion - it's being hollowed out and the band pushed increasingly northwards meaning to keep as a viable source of taxation - the rates charged at the upper end have to keep going up..

it's infuriating..

Take a fixed percentage off everyone - regardless of income level. Instead it's just becoming another unbalanced income tax.

universal social charge that a lot of people don't pay... :rolleyes:

LeinsterDub

lawred2 wrote: »

The USC was the one fair tax - everyone paid it. Everyone paid in a little to the system.

And those that benefit the most from the system were asked for a small contribution.

But in typical Irish fashion - it's being hollowed out and the band pushed increasingly northwards meaning to keep as a viable source of taxation - the rates charged at the upper end have to keep going up..

it's infuriating..

Take a fixed percentage off everyone - regardless of income level. Instead it's just becoming another unbalanced income tax.

universal social charge that a lot of people don't pay... :rolleyes:

So you'd tax a millionaire the same percentage as someone struggling to get by?

How............ regressive of you

markodaly

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So you'd tax a millionaire the same percentage as someone struggling to get by?

How............ regressive of you

Do you know what fixed percentage works?

10% of €10,000 nets less than 10% of €1,000,000

Plumbthedepths

Last big promise to workers by FG in 2016, now they expect us to believe the top rate won't kick in till 50k at least their partners FF aren't making the same undeliverable promise.


https://www.thejournal.ie/fine-gael-scrap-usc-2548728-Jan2016/

lawred2

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So you'd tax a millionaire the same percentage as someone struggling to get by?

How............ regressive of you

no because a millionaire will pay higher rates of income tax and PRSI

but everyone should pay a small fixed percentage of their salary to the USC

otherwise it's just another lopsided income tax

Idbatterim

LeinsterDub wrote: »

What rewards have you gotten from 9 years of FG?
Housing, transport, climate and health crisis seems to be the reward.

they have done virtually FA for the workers, I am aware of that, I bang on about it relentlessly. But here is the option, the pittance they will throw at workers OR that amount not given to workers and wasted on other crap by FF, making the bad situation even worse!

smurgen

As a cork man I'll be taking all the ore election promises of FG with a heap of salt.it's four years since the sod turning of the events center before the last election and still building isn't started and still promises are being made.they're the do nothing party. All they can manage are the optics and they're not even able for that anymore. Things happen under fine Gael they dont manage anything.

Idbatterim

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So Leo told you he wants to look after the people that get up early but he didn't, I have seen you reference that on multiple occasions when ranting about social welfare. Workers got nothing in the last budget, but now in the midst of an election you believe Leo and the lads are going to look after workers this time? Are you seriously that gullible?

as above. they have been useless , offensive, you are right! so what in gods name will FF be like? start taxing us more and handing out M&S vouchers to all welfare recipients? probably not far off it...

FF are right out the door though with all the freebies they are promising again, electioneering starts and bang! Was considering a vote for those morons, not now. Just take more from those paying for everything again...

Plumbthedepths

Idbatterim wrote: »

as above. they have been useless , offensive, you are right! so what in gods name will FF be like? start taxing us more and handing out M&S vouchers to all welfare recipients? probably not far off it...

I don't expect FF to be any different. The present government has sat long enough. Arrogance takes over after a certain period and they start to believe their own press.

LeinsterDub

markodaly wrote: »

Do you know what fixed percentage works?

10% of €10,000 nets less than 10% of €1,000,000

Do you understand how progressive taxation works 10% of €1,000,000 is a lot more affordable than 10% of €10,000

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

they have done virtually FA for the workers, I am aware of that, I bang on about it relentlessly. But here is the option, the pittance they will throw at workers OR that amount not given to workers and wasted on other crap by FF, making the bad situation even worse!

Why not someone like the SocDems who are offering you a lower cost of living?

LeinsterDub

lawred2 wrote: »

no because a millionaire will pay higher rates of income tax and PRSI

but everyone should pay a small fixed percentage of their salary to the USC

otherwise it's just another lopsided income tax

Of course it's a lopsided income tax because people's incomes are lopsided

saabsaab

Anybody promising tax cuts or big spends etc. should be asked where is the money coming from to do whatever it is there are pushing.

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Last big promise to workers by FG in 2016, now they expect us to believe the top rate won't kick in till 50k at least their partners FF aren't making the same undeliverable promise.


https://www.thejournal.ie/fine-gael-scrap-usc-2548728-Jan2016/

The current limit in the mid-thirties is too low but 50K too high. USC is difficult to replace because of the vast sums it generates and maybe slightly lower levels is where it should be left.

Idbatterim

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Why not someone like the SocDems who are offering you a lower cost of living?

honestly I feel I am better off just giving FG a stronger mandate. Best case is FFG strong coalition. To hell with the independents being king makers etc. Then FFG can forget their pathetic excuses, which confidence and supply afforded. Unless and until a new party forms here, offering something different, which is an open goal in my opinion. We are best off with the farce of FFG in my opinion and thats saying something, as to what I think of the rest of the clowns!!!!

is_that_so

saabsaab wrote: »

Anybody promising tax cuts or big spends etc. should be asked where is the money coming from to do whatever it is there are pushing.

Yeah and most can explain how but it is a sign that we have returned to more normal election campaigns. The tax cut thing is not new for FG. They've been talking about it since about 2014.

Plumbthedepths

is_that_so wrote: »

The current limit in the mid-thirties is too low but 50K too high. USC is difficult to replace because of the vast sums it generates and maybe slightly lower levels is where it should be left.

So you agree the USC was an election stunt, the 50k promise is no different to the USC stunt.
As unpalatable as taxes are they are necessary to pay for services. I would prefer if instead of claiming they will cut taxes the promise should be made to spend taxes more efficiently and give value for the money taken from the taxpayer.

endabob1

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Can't see a thread on this. That's pretty soon huh? I hope people vote anything but FF/FG. Why not do something different for a change?

Late to the party on this one, but this in itself is not a reason, this is to a large degree how Brexit got through in the UK, people wanting to "shake it up a bit" or Buck the system" without fully understanding the consequences (not many people on either side really understood all the consequences to be fair)

I understand the frustration with FF/FG civil war politics, but my 3 rules of thumb are;

• Look at the manifesto's & vote for the party or parties that best represent your views.
• Don't vote on local issues, that's what council elections are for.
• Look at the polling in your area and understand how to get the most bang for your buck, be tactical , particularly in 2nd and 3rd preferences

KrustyUCC

smurgen wrote: »

As a cork man I'll be taking all the ore election promises of FG with a heap of salt.it's four years since the sod turning of the events center before the last election and still building isn't started and still promises are being made.they're the do nothing party. All they can manage are the optics and they're not even able for that anymore. Things happen under fine Gael they dont manage anything.

Ah yes the great event centre

Nice photo Op though

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So you agree the USC was an election stunt, the 50k promise is no differentct to the USC stunt.
As unpalatable as taxes are they are necessary to pay for services. I would prefer if instead of claiming they will cut taxes the promise should be made to spend taxes more efficiently and give value for the money taken from the taxpayer.

No, really not what I said at all. FG have been on about both for a good few years. I don't disagree with a reduction in the USC nor a rise in where the higher kicks in, but not what they are proposing. As for "stunts" well they'll all have their own version of "stunts". It's how some voters are wooed.