Election called for Saturday 8 February

is_that_so

It looks like spend, spend,spend (sensibly?) is what we'll be subjected to over the next two weeks. A possible whopping €11bn extra will be the basis for all sorts of "visions".

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-fine-gael-and-fianna-f%C3%A1il-set-to-reveal-spending-plans-worth-billions-1.4144769

Phoebas

suicide_circus wrote: »

Selling social housing stock to tenants is questionable but i can see the logic of getting someone off the government's books. Selling it at a huge discount is insanity.

If someone has the capacity and the willingness to become a home owner then they shouldn't be on the government's books at all.
Social housing should be reserved for people who need it.

Plumbthedepths

Pensions becoming a big issue, Flanagan (FG) and McSharry (FF) on the back foot on TWIP yesterday.

LeinsterDub

suicide_circus wrote: »

Selling social housing stock to tenants is questionable but i can see the logic of getting someone off the government's books. Selling it at a huge discount is insanity.

Getting them off the books is classic short termism

Phoebas

I wouldn't be surprised if they both give way on it.

SF are promising to keep the pension age at 66.
Labour are going to reduce it to 65.

There aren't to many votes in making changes needed for the medium and longer term future but only have negative impact for people in the next Dail term.

Idbatterim

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Pensions becoming a big issue, Flanagan (FG) and McSharry (FF) on the back foot on TWIP yesterday.

Ff looking to buy off society’s most comfortable again? Heard that rat from limerick on the radio earlier, the one always trying to buy the pensioners off. Wants to lower retirement age. We have a pension timebomb ticking and ff as usual want to pour more fuel on the flames. I started a thread on how poor fg had been. I’m banned from the politics forum for one too many attacks on varadkar. I had even contemplated voting ff as fg were so poor , over the last few days , it is clear to me , that decision would have been insanity. Ff just talking about spend spend spend again , taxpayers money and giving it to everyone but the taxpayers. As **** as fg are , the last few days have made them a hell of a lot more palatable to me than ff. If you vote ff , I’ll be here to remind you , when the entire **** comes crashing down again. They’ll get out with their big pensions etc and it will be the private sector workers done Again , as usual !

jmreire

Phoebas wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if they both give way on it.

SF are promising to keep the pension age at 66.
Labour are going to reduce it to 65.

There aren't to many votes in making changes needed for the medium and longer term future but only have negative impact for people in the next Dail term.

Labour's plans????? And you would believe anything that Liebour says???? Ah, shure, you say them kind of things during an election.. Not a chance.:mad:

Plumbthedepths

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ff looking to buy off society’s most comfortable again? Heard that rat from limerick on the radio earlier, the one always trying to buy the pensioners off. Wants to lower retirement age. We have a pension timebomb ticking and ff as usual want to pour more fuel on the flames. I started a thread on how poor fg had been. I’m banned from the politics forum for one too many attacks on varadkar. I had even contemplated voting ff as fg were so poor , over the last few days , it is clear to me , that decision would have been insanity. Ff just talking about spend spend spend again , taxpayers money and giving it to everyone but the taxpayers. As **** as fg are , the last few days have made them a hell of a lot more palatable to me than ff. If you vote ff , I’ll be here to remind you , when the entire **** comes crashing down again. They’ll get out with their big pensions etc and it will be the private sector workers done Again , as usual !

I have zero idea as to what your comment has to do with what I posted.
As for being banned, prehaps it would be better not to use derogatory words to describe Leo, just a suggestion.

McMurphy

Richard Bruton, Pearse Doherty and Thomas Byrne on with pat Kenny now to discuss the opinion poll released at the weekend for anyone interested.

Idbatterim

There are serious issues with health housing infrastructure, crime etc , how in gods name does the nature of debate in this campaign now swing around to the extremely generous state pension?!

KrustyUCC

I don't think that poll is reflective of the actual standings at the moment

No way FG are 12 points behind

L1011

Idbatterim wrote: »

There are serious issues with health housing infrastructure, crime etc , how in gods name does the nature of debate in this campaign now swing around to the extremely generous state pension?!

Because old people always vote.

Idbatterim

L1011 wrote: »

Because old people always vote.

I am aware of this. It is morally corrupt though and it shows you how ff haven’t changed in the slightest. I’ve gone from a begrudging fg vote to being happy to vote for them as I now feel fg are clearly the least bad scenario, out an appalling choice of options !

What happens with the health black hole etc , higher pensions, less money for health , crime etc

McMurphy

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I don't think that poll is reflective of the actual standings at the moment

No way FG are 12 points behind

Polls are a snapshot of public opinion, and can vary wildly from week to week and the polling company involved, where the polls took place etc etc.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if they (FG) suffer widespread seat losses across the country, the public are weary of them being in govt for the last 9 years.

Richard Bruton off to a marvellous start on Newstalk, straight away on the attack about FF, not sure if this is a strategy they've been instructed to go with, but it's not doing their arrogance reputation any favours.

Idbatterim

What are they meant to do ? Talk ff up ? Ff are appalling, for once , they aren’t lying or spoofing !

KrustyUCC

Polls have also been known to be widely wrong

FG have to attack FF every chance they get

Only way they will win this election

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Pensions becoming a big issue, Flanagan (FG) and McSharry (FF) on the back foot on TWIP yesterday.

It's the gap to the OAP, not the age that is the issue. Most people are on contracts that turf them out at 65. FF & FG have recognised that and promise to fix it. Labour and SF are just going the stupid "populist" route by reversing it.

KrustyUCC

I have no time for Leo but his transition pension idea seems to make sense to me

Loafing Oaf

L1011 wrote: »

Because old people always vote.

I suppose those directly affected by this issue would be more commonly described as 'late middle aged' nowadays. Although they're probably even more certain to vote than the really old...

Plumbthedepths

is_that_so wrote: »

It's the gap to the OAP, not the age that is the issue. Most people are on contracts that turf them out at 65. FF & FG have recognised that and promise to fix it. Labour and SF are just going the stupid "populist" route by reversing it.

FF and FG promise to fix it? sorry but that's funny. Age is a factor, the largest union in the country will be mounting a campaign to have the age reversed.

Phoebas

is_that_so wrote: »

It's the gap to the OAP, not the age that is the issue. Most people are on contracts that turf them out at 65. FF & FG have recognised that and promise to fix it. Labour and SF are just going the stupid "populist" route by reversing it.

This is the kind of issue that can easily become a key issue in the campaign. FG have failed in the past to spot how the wind is blowing and, while I think they need to hold the line on the pension age changes, I can see how it might be tempting to kick the whole issue down the road - especially if FF start to go populist on it.

Plumbthedepths

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I have no time for Leo but his transition pension idea seems to make sense to me

They're making it up as they go along now, it was admitted by Flanagan yesterday that they didn't see the pension as an issue. The public informed them it is a big issue.

KrustyUCC

Yes they def weren't on point

You would think Leo and Flanagan would be on the same page

Plumbthedepths

Idbatterim wrote: »

I am aware of this. It is morally corrupt though and it shows you how ff haven’t changed in the slightest. I’ve gone from a begrudging fg vote to being happy to vote for them as I now feel fg are clearly the least bad scenario, out an appalling choice of options !

What happens with the health black hole etc , higher pensions, less money for health , crime etc

So any thoughts on the pension raise by FG if returned to power?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gaels-5-a-week-pension-hike-election-pledge-as-doherty-says-jobseeker-benefits-wont-increase-38854089.html

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

FF and FG promise to fix it? sorry but that's funny. Age is a factor, the largest union in the country will be mounting a campaign to have the age reversed.

Sure it is but at least they identify the problem. It's a very dumb move to reverse it.

Loafing Oaf

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So any thoughts on the pension raise by FG if returned to power?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gaels-5-a-week-pension-hike-election-pledge-as-doherty-says-jobseeker-benefits-wont-increase-38854089.html

FF have also promised an increase
https://www.fiannafail.ie/ff-pledges-to-increase-state-pension-in-govt-cahill/

But you could pretty much take that as read even if they hadn't actually committed to it...

Plumbthedepths

is_that_so wrote: »

Sure it is but at least they identify the problem. It's a very dumb move to reverse it.

But they didn't identify the problem, it was pointed out to them.
I'd be ok with the pension age at 66. If someone wants to continue working till whatever that's fine. There is however jobs where physically it would be very difficult to carry on past 65/66. Personally I find it abhorrent that someone who has worked all their life should have to sign on until they are 68 to bridge the gap.

is_that_so

Phoebas wrote: »

This is the kind of issue that can easily become a key issue in the campaign. FG have failed in the past to spot how the wind is blowing and, while I think they need to hold the line on the pension age changes, I can see how it might be tempting to kick the whole issue down the road - especially if FF start to go populist on it.

Well this is where we hope in vain that they can be adult. I'd say a promised reversal looks like the vote getter to some. Will this be an echo of 1977 coming our way?

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

But they didn't identify the problem, it was pointed out to them.
I'd be ok with the pension age at 66. If someone wants to continue working till whatever that's fine. There is however jobs where physically it would be very difficult to carry on past 65/66. Personally I find it abhorrent that someone who has worked all their life should have to sign on until they are 68 to bridge the gap.

However they came to it, they know now. I don't disagree on this but that's what needs to be fixed, not reversing it.

Plumbthedepths

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

FF have also promised an increase
https://www.fiannafail.ie/ff-pledges-to-increase-state-pension-in-govt-cahill/

But you could pretty much take that as read even if they hadn't actually committed to it...

The 'grey' vote has always been courted by the two main parties .