Election called for Saturday 8 February

markodaly

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Paschal.

The pension time bomb is a real issue, but its tomorrow's problem, kinda like Climate Change, so people dont care too much about it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/pensions-focus-2019/defusing-the-pension-time-bomb-1.4053759

Yet a closer look at the figures contained within the risk assessment make for stark reading. In the next 40 years, there will be just 2.3 people of working age for every pensioner. There are already measures being taken to address this, one of which is pushing out the State pension age; eligibility for the payment is currently 66 and will rise to 68 by 2028. “The Government has said they will review the age of the State pension on an actuarial basis and a mortality basis on a five-year rolling timescale, so that suggests it could go up again,” says Boylan.

Plumbthedepths

So public workers get preferential treatment over private sector counterparts... public sector pensions all funded from day to day spending.



https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/majority-of-public-servants-avoid-controversial-change-in-state-pension-age-38881873.html

Dyr

markodaly wrote: »

The pension time bomb is a real issue, but its tomorrow's problem, kinda like Climate Change, so people dont care too much about it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/pensions-focus-2019/defusing-the-pension-time-bomb-1.4053759

Should probably encourage people to have more kids


Mad idea, eh?

Idbatterim

markodaly wrote: »

The Irish electorate has always thrown their kids under the bus, so long as they get a few €€€ in return.

It seems FG is the only party holding firm over the rise of the pension age, which is classic FF, as they agreed to it and signed off on it now.
But they will sell their granny/kids if it means it gets them power.

Yet, some say it can't get worse than FG? LOL! They will learn.

THIS! THIS! I cant believe for a second I entertained voting FF! As appalling as FG are, its become clear over the last few days, just how much worse, things can and would get under FF!

they'll ramp up the spending, bust, and just cut back the increased spending with years of cuts, misery, finger pointing, the same broken record, we have already been hearing for decades. Given the music stopped when FF were in power last time, you would think, they would try to go with a somewhat prudent approach this time round, "lessons learned " etc. No, straight back out trying to buy it, with workers money, mostly proposing to reward non workers!

FF? FCUK OFF!

Idbatterim

Bambi wrote: »

Should probably encourage people to have more kids


Mad idea, eh?

they are, they are giving free houses to non workers, they dont work so have free childcare, no commute. Pop out a ton of "angles" and then onto the next cycle!

You really have to wonder, who will be paying for the gravy train or will it all collapse in future. We will have a massive elderly population, who of the young will fund it, all of the margaret cash's kids and their ilk. Sure they'll be receiving far more back from the state every year, than retired workers , who paid in hundreds of thousand in income taxes and get out virtually the same, as someone who has benefited into the low millions off the back of the taxpayer!

Calhoun

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So public workers get preferential treatment over private sector counterparts... public sector pensions all funded from day to day spending.



https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/majority-of-public-servants-avoid-controversial-change-in-state-pension-age-38881873.html

The government is working hard for those who get up early in the morning, as long as they are in the public sector. The private sector numpties can go F-off.

If ever a reason not to vote FG this would be a big one.

Idbatterim

Calhoun wrote: »

The government is working hard for those who get up early in the morning, as long as they are in the public sector. The private sector numpties can go F-off.

If ever a reason not to vote FG this would be a big one.

as a private sector worker here, you are voting for the least **** option, than FG. Surprised FF havent proposed ceasing all infrastructure projects, to fund their hair-brained sh*t yet! Back to the boom, double digit percentage increases in welfare and PS pay, every budget!

is_that_so

Snow Garden wrote: »

I was told that in 20 years time there will not be enough money to pay public service and state pensions so people will be means tested. Basically anyone with decent private pensions will not get the state pension.

This is what they reckon based on demographics, although maybe 30 years out. That's why that mandatory pension scheme has started but it's of little use to 40 somethings who have not made provisions.

Calhoun

Idbatterim wrote: »

as a private sector worker here, you are voting for the least **** option, than FG. Surprised FF havent proposed ceasing all infrastructure projects, to fund their hair-brained sh*t yet! Back to the boom, double digit percentage increases in welfare and PS pay, every budget!

I am a private sector worker myself, and this kind of **** that the current establishment has let happen angers the blood.

I also have a vulnerable daughter who needs help from health and education perspective and see how slow they move to fix stuff.

A vote for FG sends the message this kind of thing is ok.

Idbatterim

Calhoun wrote: »

I am a private sector worker myself, and this kind of **** that the current establishment has let happen angers the blood.

I also have a vulnerable daughter who needs help from health and education perspective and see how slow they move to fix stuff.

A vote for FG sends the message this kind of thing is ok.

both parties are crap. I reckon it will be neck and neck, but its become clear to me, that FF are easily worse! yeah, I have a brother with issues, failed by the state, falls between the cracks. But he is ok now and has a good family. My point is, the others will be worse. Look at the **** FF already talking, they had power for years, the biggest boom we will ever have and what sort of a health, justice system , everything, did they leave?

is_that_so

Calhoun wrote: »

I am a private sector worker myself, and this kind of **** that the current establishment has let happen angers the blood.

I also have a vulnerable daughter who needs help from health and education perspective and see how slow they move to fix stuff.

A vote for FG sends the message this kind of thing is ok.

It is unlikely to a whole lot different with a new government. Government movement on most things is glacial.

Snow Garden

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Told by whom?

A southern politician, a political man.

Riskymove

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So public workers get preferential treatment over private sector counterparts... public sector pensions all funded from day to day spending.

some points on this

PS workers starting since 1995 have an integrated pension, this means the OAP pension is factored in to their pension. The terms and conditions indicated they had to retire at 65 and that whatever pension they were entitled to would be reduced by the amount of the OAP which they would also collect

as far as I am aware, in most cases, private sector workers receive the OAP in addition to any pension they receive (i.e. it is not reduced)

the supplementary pension includes some conditions:

"It comes in for consideration when a person who is umemployed and who through no fault of their own fails to qualify for any Social Welfare entitlement"

this means that the public servant must in fact first go through the same process as a private sector worker - i.e. jobseekers or whatever

It is only where they do not qualify for any welfare benefit that they can receive the supplementary pension.

Calhoun

Idbatterim wrote: »

both parties are crap. I reckon it will be neck and neck, but its become clear to me, that FF are easily worse! yeah, I have a brother with issues, failed by the state, falls between the cracks. But he is ok now and has a good family. My point is, the others will be worse. Look at the **** FF already talking, they had power for years, the biggest boom we will ever have and what sort of a health, justice system , everything, did they leave?

I am not wedded to any party, i will vote on the lines of where i personally think myself and family will do better.

Right now FG aren't cutting the mustard and i am feeling that rewarding them with a vote isn't the right thing to do.

is_that_so wrote: »

It is unlikely to a whole lot different with a new government. Government movement on most things is glacial.

I know it won't but at the same time voting them in again just suggests this is ok. Especially voting in Doherty who is a reprehensible individual.

Plumbthedepths

Riskymove wrote: »

some points on this

PS workers starting since 1995 have an integrated pension, this means the OAP pension is factored in to their pension. The terms and conditions indicated they had to retire at 65 and that whatever pension they were entitled to would be reduced by the amount of the OAP which they would also collect

as far as I am aware, in most cases, private sector workers receive the OAP in addition to any pension they receive (i.e. it is not reduced)

the supplementary pension includes some conditions:

"It comes in for consideration when a person who is umemployed and who through no fault of their own fails to qualify for any Social Welfare entitlement"

this means that the public servant must in fact first go through the same process as a private sector worker - i.e. jobseekers or whatever

It is only where they do not qualify for any welfare benefit that they can receive the supplementary pension.

Considering the cash grab by the last FG government in defiance of the Troika ('11 to '16) many private pensions lost alot of money. Public pensions unaffected.

Sir Oxman

Calhoun wrote: »

The government is working hard for those who get up early in the morning, as long as they are in the public sector. The private sector numpties can go F-off.

If ever a reason not to vote FG this would be a big one.

And LAbour - Howlin brought that in.

smurgen

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

FF/FG making it up as they go along....


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/scramble-for-grey-vote-with-pension-age-row-38880849.html

Sure would you even believe them.we're still waiting for the events center here in cork 5 years after Coveney and Enda done the sod turn.these lads can't help but lie.

Dwarf.Shortage

Fianna Fail going with the SSIA match of €30k saved being supplemented by a €10k top up and increasing the HTB to €25k, also a 14% vacant sites levy and a waive of various charges if developers can deliver the units within 3 years.

Lots of social housing commitments too but I didn't listen as closely to the details.

Riskymove

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Public pensions unaffected.

??

do you mean

• the public sector pensions that had levies applied
  
• or the additional payments to pensions for all PS workers (in addition to pay cuts)
  
• or the

entirely new pension scheme introduced in 2013 which will see much reduced pensions and a minimum retirement age of 70


which of those is "unaffected"

James Brown

So you have to retire, then you are told to sign on for a year.

In contrast, private sector workers who are legally obliged to retire at 65 are unable to claim the State pension until a later date as the State contributory pension is now only paid from the age of 66.
The State (PRSI) pension age is due to go to 67 next year, prompting a scramble by politicians to promise to row back on the plans as the issue comes during on the doorsteps during canvassing in the General Election.
People are annoyed that thousands who are compelled to leave work at the age of 65 have to claim Jobseekers’ Benefit – getting €45 less a week than they would from their pension.
https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/majority-of-public-servants-avoid-controversial-change-in-state-pension-age-38881873.html

'Jobseekers' FG are only gas.

"I worked all my life!" 'Get up the yard you dole sponger'.

It has been revealed that public servants get a “supplementary pension” before they can qualify for the State contributory pension at 66. This can be claimed from the age of 63.
The Department of Public Expenditure has confirmed that the “supplementary” pension exists, that is basically a substitution for the State pension until public servants reach the State pension age of 66.

Nice.

Do FG/FF not realise that people are aware that they will get older and that they've family who are older? I think FG's 'I'm alright jack' ethos is back firing on them here, pensions aren't just an issue for those of pensionable age.

Plumbthedepths

Riskymove wrote: »

??

do you mean

• the public sector pensions that had levies applied
  
• or the additional payments to pensions for all PS workers (in addition to pay cuts)
  
• or the

entirely new pension scheme introduced in 2013 which will see much reduced pensions and a minimum retirement age of 70


which of those is "unaffected"

Pay cuts restored, seriously public sector workers were contributing nowhere near required amounts for the pension given.
The pensions available up to 2013 were completely unsustainable for the taxpayer to fund. Defined benefit pensions are almost non existent in the private sector.

Riskymove

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Pay cuts restored, seriously public sector workers were contributing nowhere near required amounts for the pension given.
The pensions available up to 2013 were completely unsustainable for the taxpayer to fund. Defined benefit pensions are almost non existent in the private sector.

two goal post moves is enough for me thanks, we can leave it there

Plumbthedepths

Riskymove wrote: »

two goal post moves is enough for me thanks, we can leave it there

lol, uncomfortable facts eh?

Plumbthedepths

Half of TDs are millionaires due in no small part due to their 'gold plated public sector pension'...


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-half-of-irelands-tds-are-millionaires-and-heres-how-much-theyre-worth-36901002.html

Riskymove

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

lol, uncomfortable facts eh?

not at all I just see the pattern

the issue on the thread is the pension gap and the supplementary pension. as an election issue and ma happy to discuss that

There are other threads for the issues you want to bring the discussion off to

Plumbthedepths

Riskymove wrote: »

There are other threads for the issues you want to bring the discussion off to

Is that a MOD instruction?

cherryghost

Is there somewhere I can get a breakdown of parties manifestos?

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

as a private sector worker here, you are voting for the least **** option, than FG. Surprised FF havent proposed ceasing all infrastructure projects, to fund their hair-brained sh*t yet! Back to the boom, double digit percentage increases in welfare and PS pay, every budget!

Rumours on Twitter that FF candidates are proposing to pull the plug on Metrolink and BusConnects

Riskymove

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Is that a MOD instruction?

?

it isn't an instruction of any kind

Plumbthedepths

Riskymove wrote: »

?

it isn't an instruction of any kind

Grand so, I can ignore it. Cheers.