Election Thread - Dublin West - SEE MOD NOTE IN POST 1

Dublin Mum

A Knight of Ireland wrote: »

There's no way I am giving Ruth any preference. As mentioned before, she is just a shouter and not really a doer. She is running based on a past track record and has nothing new to contribute. She has dont nothing for the Castleknock/Blanchardstown area and seems to concentrate on the areas like Mulhuddart/Hartstown/Blakestown which gives those places a bad name by harping on about social issues in those areas. Why not concentrate and spend some effort on building them places up verbally?

Completely agree with you.
I have never seen RC get her hands dirty in my area of D15 (Clonsilla/Clonee/Ongar), and I’m living here 17 years. PD is around week in week out all year every year for as long as I can remember and has always followed up with every issue my family have ever contacted him on. He’s the only candidate I can say in my time living here that has done that. He’s definitely getting our No. 1. FF, FG, Lab, Greens all useless.
Beyond number 1 I’m undecided. Was originally going to give RC number 2 but as others have said she has nothing new or positive to offer and I’m afraid of PD losing out on transfers. I don’t think I’m going to vote beyond my first preference.

Nijmegen

Dublin Mum wrote: »

Completely agree with you.
I have never seen RC get her hands dirty in my area of D15 (Clonsilla/Ongar), and I’m living here 17 years. PD is around week in week out all year every year for as long as I can remember and has always followed up with every issue my family have ever contacted him on. He’s the only candidate I can say in my time living here that has done that. He’s definitely getting our No. 1. FF, FG, Lab, Greens all useless.
Beyond number 1 I’m undecided. Was originally going to give RC number 2 but as others have said she has nothing new or positive to offer and I’m afraid of PD losing out on transfers. I don’t think I’m going to vote beyond my first preference.

I'd be a long time waiting to vote for SF, but in fairness as an individual candidate PD has been good in the community. But that's their entire groundswell strategy I suppose. If you want him to win, he needs your number 1 as the Shinners just don't attract transfers the way other parties do - a hardcore FF or FG voter will often throw a preference in some direction of Labour etc, but it's rare to see it occur to SF.

That being said, in terms of your preferences the clever way to use them is to vote for everyone except the people you very much don't want elected, ie your vote has a chance of staying alive as long as they are in the count and might edge out someone you dislike!

Dublin Mum

Nijmegen wrote: »

I'd be a long time waiting to vote for SF, but in fairness as an individual candidate PD has been good in the community. But that's their entire groundswell strategy I suppose. If you want him to win, he needs your number 1 as the Shinners just don't attract transfers the way other parties do - a hardcore FF or FG voter will often throw a preference in some direction of Labour etc, but it's rare to see it occur to SF.

That being said, in terms of your preferences the clever way to use them is to vote for everyone except the people you very much don't want elected, ie your vote has a chance of staying alive as long as they are in the count and might edge out someone you dislike!

Ordinarily I’d agree with you with any political representative, but definitely not when it comes to PD he’s working in the community throughout the constituency all the time over the years, and has always responded to any issue we’ve had whether it’s crime, drugs, traffic, education, community centres, litter, youth, summer projects, whatever...
There’s no other candidate I’d consider giving any preference to, to be honest, as there’s not one of them I’d like to see elected. Like I said, I was originally swaying towards RC for number 2 but the more I think about it she’s never been active in my community (neither was her party member MW before he lost out in the local elections).

Remind me

NufcNavan wrote: »

So SF will increase the dole and Ruth won't??

This isn't in reference to you but it's interesting how Chambers gets a hard time for his stance on the 8th and yet Leo, Coveney, Martin and many other prominent politicians changed their mind on the 8th once they realised it was going to pass. It seems as if having a loose moral stance is fine as long as you end up on the winning side in the end.

Peoples issue is that Chambers voted against holding the referendum then changed his mind while Martin gave a very good speech in the Dail explaining why he has changed his mind and voted for holding it like the others you mentioned.

I will be voting for Chambers but I do think that was a mistake on his part which I am sure he would now acknowledge.

Dublin Mum

Remind me wrote: »

Peoples issue is that Chambers voted against holding the referendum then changed his mind while Martin gave a very good speech in the Dail explaining why he has changed his mind and voted for holding it like the others you mentioned.

I will be voting for Chambers but I do think that was a mistake on his part which I am sure he would now acknowledge.

I think his stance on holding the referendum issue would be the least of my concerns regarding JC. Could see absolutely nothing positive about voting FF or for that particular candidate.

Remind me

Dublin Mum wrote: »

I think his stance on holding the referendum issue would be the least of my concerns regarding JC. Could see absolutely nothing positive about voting FF or for that particular candidate.

What else so in terms of Chambers?

I understand why people wouldn’t vote FF

Dublin Mum

Remind me wrote: »

What else so in terms of Chambers?

I understand why people wouldn’t vote FF

Well you’ve answered that- FF. But as a candidate it’s also his inability to respond to queries relating to serious local issues when he’s contacted, his apathy and obvious boredom when he shows up at local community/ fundraising events just to get his photo taken, the fact that he cannot answer any questions my family raise or address any issues raised when he knocks on my door...

Remind me

Dublin Mum wrote: »

Well you’ve answered that- FF. But as a candidate it’s also his inability to respond to queries relating to serious local issues when he’s contacted, his apathy and obvious boredom when he shows up at local community/ fundraising events just to get his photo taken, the fact that he cannot answer any questions my family raise or address any issues raised when he knocks on my door...

Fair enough on issues you have raised directly.

I have had the opposite experience with him and also Roderic on any issue or queries I have asked so will be 1&2.

On FF I have long accepted SF, FG, FF, labour etc... are all the same and if in power major issues will not change.

I vote as I presume most do on my interaction with candidates/TD’s/Councillors locally

Dublin Mum

Remind me wrote: »

Fair enough on issues you have raised directly.

I have had the opposite experience with him and also Roderic on any issue or queries I have asked so will be 1&2.

As with RC, it might depend with JC on where you’re living. I’ve never found him to venture down this direction unless there’s a photo opportunity or to canvass.

Remind me

Dublin Mum wrote: »

As with RC, it might depend with JC on where you’re living. I’ve never found him to venture down this direction unless there’s a photo opportunity or to canvass.

Not sure where you live but that is no different to them all. I have never seen Paul Donnelly and in 2016 he didn’t even poster around our way. 1st time I saw Coppinger out and about was at Tesco in Roselawn last week.

They pick and choose areas and that’s understandable, they know who they are trying to target.

Dublin Mum

Remind me wrote: »

Not sure where you live but that is no different to them all. I have never seen Paul Donnelly and in 2016 he didn’t even poster around our way. 1st time I saw Coppinger out and about was at Tesco in Roselawn last week.

They pick and choose areas and that’s understandable, they know who they are trying to target.

Canvassing and posters is one thing.

Contacting them on serious issues when they’re a representative in your constituency and receiving absolutely no response is unacceptable in my book.

I understand they can only spread themselves so thinly, but failure to acknowledge or respond more than once when contacted over what were in both cases very serious issues won’t ever give him (and others) a preference in this house. PD on the other hand responded and met a group of us the following morning. JB of Labour was the only other local representative to respond, getting MC to contact us over 4 weeks later, by which time PD had already made massive headway in escalating the issue to the relevant departments and organisations.

Remind me

Dublin Mum wrote: »

Canvassing and posters is one thing.

Contacting them on serious issues when they’re a representative in your constituency and receiving absolutely no response is unacceptable in my book.

Agreed

Caranica

Remind me wrote: »

Peoples issue is that Chambers voted against holding the referendum then changed his mind while Martin gave a very good speech in the Dail explaining why he has changed his mind and voted for holding it like the others you mentioned.

I will be voting for Chambers but I do think that was a mistake on his part which I am sure he would now acknowledge.

The point is indeed as your first paragraph says. The irony of a democratically elected person trying to deny a democratic vote and then coming and looking for our democratic votes now. Utter hypocrisy!!

I also agree re his lack of engagement though. I'm involved in a couple of local committees and pay a lot of attention to the people who genuinely try to help if we need to approach them. It's why I hold Roderic in such high regard

blanch152

Dublin Mum wrote: »

Canvassing and posters is one thing.

Contacting them on serious issues when they’re a representative in your constituency and receiving absolutely no response is unacceptable in my book.

I understand they can only spread themselves so thinly, but failure to acknowledge or respond more than once when contacted over what were in both cases very serious issues won’t ever give him (and others) a preference in this house. PD on the other hand responded and met a group of us the following morning. JB of Labour was the only other local representative to respond, getting MC to contact us over 4 weeks later, by which time PD had already made massive headway in escalating the issue to the relevant departments and organisations.

You elect councillors to look after local issues.

You elect TDs to legislate in the Dail.

ArmaniJeanss

Dublin Mum wrote: »

Beyond number 1 I’m undecided. Was originally going to give RC number 2 but as others have said she has nothing new or positive to offer and I’m afraid of PD losing out on transfers. I don’t think I’m going to vote beyond my first preference.

For what it's worth your number 2 vote can't affect your number 1 vote.
You seem to be worried that PD could lose out on transfers if you give your number 2 to RC. But your number 2 vote will only ever be counted when your number 1 is either eliminated or elected.

Also as a general point, in a 4 seater constituency you should really be casting at least 4 preferences. It's obviously unlikely that anyone's 4 preferences will win, but you might as well have a horse in every race. 4 are going to be elected regardless, so you should give yourself a say.

Larbre34

blanch152 wrote: »

You elect councillors to look after local issues.

You elect TDs to legislate in the Dail.

We all know the lack of a list system, or even a hybrid, in Ireland means that we elect Councillors to look after local issues and elect TDs to look after their seats.

Remind me

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

For what it's worth your number 2 vote can't affect your number 1 vote.
You seem to be worried that PD could lose out on transfers if you give your number 2 to RC. But your number 2 vote will only ever be counted when your number 1 is either eliminated or elected.

Also as a general point, in a 4 seater constituency you should really be casting at least 4 preferences. It's obviously unlikely that anyone's 4 preferences will win, but you might as well have a horse in every race. 4 are going to be elected regardless, so you should give yourself a say.

Why give a preference for someone you don’t want to see in the Dail?

I’ll be going 1&2 at a push 3. I don’t want to see certain candidates in the Dail so they won’t be getting any preference from me.

Dublin Mum

blanch152 wrote: »

You elect councillors to look after local issues.

You elect TDs to legislate in the Dail.

Of course, I understand that. However I do expect my TD to represent broader issues that are important to and affect me in the Dail. Votes must be earned.

Dublin Mum

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

For what it's worth your number 2 vote can't affect your number 1 vote.
You seem to be worried that PD could lose out on transfers if you give your number 2 to RC. But your number 2 vote will only ever be counted when your number 1 is either eliminated or elected.

Also as a general point, in a 4 seater constituency you should really be casting at least 4 preferences. It's obviously unlikely that anyone's 4 preferences will win, but you might as well have a horse in every race. 4 are going to be elected regardless, so you should give yourself a say.

I know how the system works. That’s my point, I don’t want RC (or any of the other candidates) to get a seat.

Dublin Mum

blanch152 wrote: »

You elect councillors to look after local issues.

You elect TDs to legislate in the Dail.

Of course, I understand that. However I do expect my TD to represent broader issues that are important to and affect me in the Dail. Votes must be earned.

AlanG

Remind me wrote: »

Why give a preference for someone you don’t want to see in the Dail?

I’ll be going 1&2 at a push 3. I don’t want to see certain candidates in the Dail so they won’t be getting any preference from me.

If you don't use your preferences you are allowing other people make decisions for you. It is best to think and vote right down through the candidates if you have any opinion at all on them. If you have any preference between those candidates you don't really want to see in the Dail you should make a decision.

Remind me

AlanG wrote: »

If you don't use your preferences you are allowing other people make decisions for you. It is best to think and vote right down through the candidates if you have any opinion at all on them. If you have any preference between those candidates you don't really want to see in the Dail you should make a decision.

Disagree.

If I give someone a preference that I do not want to see in the Dail when other candidates are elected or eliminated the preference I have given all of a sudden is giving that candidate I do not want No. 1.

If you do not give them anything there is no chance you have supported them, if other people give them preferences or No 1 that’s their choice.

Former Former

Remind me wrote: »

Disagree.

If I give someone a preference that I do not want to see in the Dail when other candidates are elected or eliminated the preference I have given all of a sudden is giving that candidate I do not want No. 1.

If you do not give them anything there is no chance you have supported them, if other people give them preferences or No 1 that’s their choice.

If you're that worried about a given candidate getting elected, then give your lower preferences to their likely rivals

A Knight of Ireland

Poor aul Ruth is throwing the kitchen sink at it. She has a massive poster on the rails at the bottom of Roselawn Road. Its at eye level and very distracting as you drive by. Actually you wouldnt see chilldren behind the poster which is extremely dangerous

blanch152

Remind me wrote: »

Disagree.

If I give someone a preference that I do not want to see in the Dail when other candidates are elected or eliminated the preference I have given all of a sudden is giving that candidate I do not want No. 1.

If you do not give them anything there is no chance you have supported them, if other people give them preferences or No 1 that’s their choice.

That assumes you hate them all equally.

Say you really want Paul Donnelly to be elected, but you really hate Jack Chambers. Well then, you vote 1 for Donnelly and all the way down the list to Chambers at the bottom.

So say, Donnelly doesn't get enough votes and gets eliminated on the seventh count. Chambers is in a fight for the last seat with Coppinger. All of Donnelly's number 2s are counted and distributed to Chambers and Coppinger. If you dislike Coppinger but hate Chambers, a number 2 to Coppinger will help her against Chambers.

blanch152

A Knight of Ireland wrote: »

Poor aul Ruth is throwing the kitchen sink at it. She has a massive poster on the rails at the bottom of Roselawn Road. Its at eye level and very distracting as you drive by. Actually you wouldnt see chilldren behind the poster which is extremely dangerous

It is illegal to put posters where they might distract drivers or obstruct their view.

Nijmegen

I saw one as I was driving by that said something to the effect that "We'd be worse off without a women's and workers voice in the Dail"... The monopolisation of those two groups by one sanctimonious political group is a little offputting!

I see over in Paul Murphy's constituency his old pals are running a candidate against him. "Left solidarity" and all that.

LoonyLovegood

She's throwing everything at it, I was at the shops in Laurel Lodge at lunchtime, there were seven people with a stall giving out leaflets. As I was leaving, another three were turning up to join them. They wouldn't take no for an answer when I said I didn't want a leaflet, I mean come on, rule one of canvassing.

AlanG

Remind me wrote: »

Disagree.

If I give someone a preference that I do not want to see in the Dail when other candidates are elected or eliminated the preference I have given all of a sudden is giving that candidate I do not want No. 1.

If you do not give them anything there is no chance you have supported them, if other people give them preferences or No 1 that’s their choice.

It's a complex system, especially with the distribution of excesses but if you don't put in enough preferences there is a chance your vote wont make any difference - a much smaller but similar effect to those who don't vote because they think "all politicians are a shower of wasters" perhaps they are but some are bigger wasters than others.

The order of eliminations can have a massive impact on outcomes and often these come down to a handful of low preference transfers.

angel eyes 2012

blanch152 wrote: »

That assumes you hate them all equally.

Say you really want Paul Donnelly to be elected, but you really hate Jack Chambers. Well then, you vote 1 for Donnelly and all the way down the list to Chambers at the bottom.

So say, Donnelly doesn't get enough votes and gets eliminated on the seventh count. Chambers is in a fight for the last seat with Coppinger. All of Donnelly's number 2s are counted and distributed to Chambers and Coppinger. If you dislike Coppinger but hate Chambers, a number 2 to Coppinger will help her against Chambers.

Thanks for the tips on strategy. I really dislike Jack Chambers, more than Coppinger, and will vote this way. I really can't stand Aontu/Renua lite either. It really boils down to who you dislike the most.