Ridiculous #GE2020 promises

prunudo

Not so much a promise but Newstalk Breakfast had Noel Rock and Mark Macsharry discussing their respective parties transport policies. Didnt catch either of them mentioning the M20 or DU but Rock kept pointing out that FF would bin or delay Metrolink with needless redesigns and FG were the only party to actually have a plan ready to go.

Cookiemunster

prunudo wrote: »

Not so much a promise but Newstalk Breakfast had Noel Rock and Mark Macsharry discussing their respective parties transport policies. Didnt catch either of them mentioning the M20 or DU but Rock kept pointing out that FF would bin or delay Metrolink with needless redesigns and FG were the only party to actually have a plan ready to go.

FF have a section in their manifesto titled "We will build the M20", so that's fairly safe under them.

There wasn't anything factual from either of them with regard to the metro. It's most definitely not shovel ready as claimed by Rock as there hasn't even been a railway order submitted to ABP.

is_that_so

Cookiemunster wrote: »

FF have a section in their manifesto titled "We will build the M20", so that's fairly safe under them.

There wasn't anything factual from either of them with regard to the metro. It's most definitely not shovel ready as claimed by Rock as there hasn't even been a railway order submitted to ABP.

But there is a plan to submit a plan that is ready! FF's intention to defer or review it is the key point.

Cookiemunster

is_that_so wrote: »

But there is a plan to submit a plan that is ready! FF's intention to defer or review it is the key point.

I'm not saying that FF will or won't interfere or change it, but having a plan to submit a plan, is not a commitment to build it. Or is it a guarantee that ABP won't order changes after the inevitable objections and public hearing. If they do build it it won't be under construction next year and won't be open in 2027.

Pete_Cavan

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I'm not saying that FF will or won't interfere or change it, but having a plan to submit a plan, is not a commitment to build it. Or is it a guarantee that ABP won't order changes after the inevitable objections and public hearing. If they do build it it won't be under construction next year and won't be open in 2027.

If your point is that he prematurely used the term "shovel ready" then you are correct but that is largely irrelevant. The main point in relation to Metrolink is that FG are the only ones nailing their colours to the mast and saying that they want to deliver the project which has been going through the necessary processes for a couple of years now. Everyone else has some caveat designed to attract votes from other areas but will delay if not derail the project. I'd be more than willing to forgive Rock the incorrect use of the term if they do actually get it to construction next year.

Idbatterim

I left the house at 6:45am this morning thinking, Ill beat the traffic! LOL!!! at a crawl from rathcoole city bound on the N7! at 6:45am!!!

zell12

A new hospital!!!!
and no it is not confirmed. It is a plain lie from this FG TD
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112435258&postcount=373

Idbatterim

From this week’s Galway City Tribune – A 1,150-bed acute hospital and a separate 200-bed elective hospital at Merlin Park – costing in the region of €3 billion and taking up to 15 years to deliver – are included in a new report on health infrastructure needs for Galway.

LOL! I am mid thirties now, Ill be dead and buried by the time this comes to pass, if they have a 15 year time line on it now!!! The geniuses at the NCH built an oval building, must have done wonders for the cost. Suggest they build a pyramid shaped hospital for this scheme! And definitely call in all the experts that waffled for decades about the NCH, we wouldnt be here without them!

Chivito550

Luas to hazelhatch? What's that all about? Hazelhatch needs a DART, not a LUAS.

Sam Russell

Chivito550 wrote: »

Luas to hazelhatch? What's that all about? Hazelhatch needs a DART, not a LUAS.

Well, going by past reports, Michael McDowell does not understand the difference between bus, coach, Luas, metro or Dart.

He though that the airport was adequately served by coaches every half hour, and a metro was just a tram.

Marlay

Had an independent candidate say he would get extra rail carriages 'now, not in two years'. When I asked how, given that they have to be built his response was that if we can bail out the banks overnight, we can get carriages. When I pointed out that you can't build carriages overnight his answer was that they don't need to be built we can lease them. When the issue of a different gauge was explained he maintained the the UK has the same gauge so we could get them from there. He won't be getting my vote.

AlmightyCushion

Marlay wrote: »

Had an independent candidate say he would get extra rail carriages 'now, not in two years'. When I asked how, given that they have to be built his response was that if we can bail out the banks overnight, we can get carriages. When I pointed out that you can't build carriages overnight his answer was that they don't need to be built we can lease them. When the issue of a different gauge was explained he maintained the the UK has the same gauge so we could get them from there. He won't be getting my vote.

The problem is you know this shít so aren't easily led by his bullshít. Plenty of others will vote for him because 'he'll getting those carriages now' not knowing it's complete crap. Imagine if the ASAI applied to political promises. The world would be a different place.

Bebra

Chivito550 wrote: »

Luas to hazelhatch? What's that all about? Hazelhatch needs a DART, not a LUAS.

I'm guessing it's an extension of the Red Line from Saggart. I can't see such a line receiving priority and I'm pretty sure a new Tallaght-Saggart-Hazelhatch-Celbridge-Maynooth bus route is planned under Bus Connects.

prunudo

Chivito550 wrote: »

Luas to hazelhatch? What's that all about? Hazelhatch needs a DART, not a LUAS.

Green party candidate on the Tonight show mentioned canning of feasibility study of a Luas to Blessington. When will they realise that the Luas is a tram and therefore should only be built within short distances from city centres.
Nobody will give up their car to commute on a tram trundling along at 60-70kph (open to correction on max speed).

Idbatterim

prunudo wrote: »

Green party candidate on the Tonight show mentioned canning of feasibility study of a Luas to Blessington. When will they realise that the Luas is a tram and therefore should only be built within short distances from city centres.
Nobody will give up their car to commute on a tram trundling along at 60-70kph (open to correction on max speed).

The Max speed isn’t the biggest issue. It’s stopping every few seconds !

LeinsterDub

prunudo wrote: »

Green party candidate on the Tonight show mentioned canning of feasibility study of a Luas to Blessington. When will they realise that the Luas is a tram and therefore should only be built within short distances from city centres.
Nobody will give up their car to commute on a tram trundling along at 60-70kph (open to correction on max speed).

And yet the Luas is wedged every day. Some people will have to be forced to give up their cars

Idbatterim

The cost of congestion in Dublin is two billion a year , 18 momthsbabd the metro is paid for. Build it ! There cannot be another delay!

CatInABox

A tram line over the Dublin mountains to serve a town with 6000 people. Right.

Sad to see that some Green party candidates still have their priorities up their own hole. They'll still get a high vote from me, but seriously, anyone can look at that plan and know that any feasibility study will laugh them out of it. It already takes 50 minutes on the red line, imagine how long it would take more than doubling the length of the line.

prunudo

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And yet the Luas is wedged every day. Some people will have to be forced to give up their cars

Yeah, once the infrastructure is built we embrace it with both arms here. I just think the notion of suggesting extending Luas to commuter towns is a cheap election promise.
By all means these towns need new public transport options but it needs to be high speed train or express buses.

L1011

Chivito550 wrote: »

Luas to hazelhatch? What's that all about? Hazelhatch needs a DART, not a LUAS.

There is a reason you'd do it (as an extension of the Lucan line once it's built) to actually generate a network - but it's so far down the priority list right now it shouldn't even be coming up

strassenwo!f

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I'd love to see back up for that claim as it doesn't seem correct to me. Even if it is true, the population increases currently happening along the Green Line will undoubtedly change it. Construction of a new town for several thousand people well underway at Cherrywood, SHD consultation has just started on over 700 apartments in Dundrum plus over 1,000 are intended for the Central Mental Hospital, we could see another thousand plus units in Sandyford. The other areas you mentioned are an ocean of semi-ds with good sized front and back gardens. The Green Line needs upgrading to Metro, there is no doubt about that.

Pete, sorry for the delay but I'm just back in the door after a week away and I didn't have the time to find the source. The link I generally use for the latest density figures in Dublin is shown below, but there are other sources:

https://www.citypopulation.de/php/ireland-dublin.php

I don't want to further clutter up this thread with a discussion of those numbers here, having got derailed earlier on.

I am genuinely curious about the Greens' proposal for a line between Ranelagh (in the Southeast) and the Southwest, rather than directly between the city centre and the Southwest.

It is obvious that the largest group of people on any tram/train/metro/bus from the Southwest want to get directly to the city, not to Ranelagh.

Does anybody on the board know what the Greens' logic might possibly be?

Last Stop

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Pete, sorry for the delay but I'm just back in the door after a week away and I didn't have the time to find the source. The link I generally use for the latest density figures in Dublin is shown below, but there are other sources:

https://www.citypopulation.de/php/ireland-dublin.php

I don't want to further clutter up this thread with a discussion of those numbers here, having got derailed earlier on.

I am genuinely curious about the Greens' proposal for a line between Ranelagh (in the Southeast) and the Southwest, rather than directly between the city centre and the Southwest.

It is obvious that the largest group of people on any tram/train/metro/bus from the Southwest want to get directly to the city, not to Ranelagh.

Does anybody on the board know what the Greens' logic might possibly be?

AGAIN you are confusing the name commonly associated with the area with the name given to the small area under CSO statistics. So while “Rathfarnham” may have a larger population/density than “Sandyford” under these figures, that does not mean that a metro stop in Rathfarnham would have a higher catchment than one in Sandyford.

The green line has a higher density (and growing) along its length of the line than the SW option does END OF

The reason the Green Party (as you were already told) have proposed starting at Ranelagh is because that is where the tunnel for the Swords to Charlemont section ends. They have been chastised for potentially screwing up that phase by crayonism so are covering their arses. It is not an engineering decision but a political one.

Last Stop

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-must-stop-acting-like-amateurs-on-infrastructure-says-chamber-president-980479.html

Surprised this didn’t gain more traction during the campaign.
A lot of the focus was (typically) around Dublin.

Amazed that no party latched onto this and called out the government for chronic under investment.

A simply policy would have been to set up an NTA/TII office in Cork. It’s low risk, low cost but sends out a huge message.

namloc1980

I think the NTA said recently enough they had no plans to open an office in Cork. They have no interest in developing Cork. The draft CMATS was published last May, no sign of the final version and we're in the second month of 2020.

Unfortunately infrastructure and transport is not a vote winner, except when it comes to roads. People just don't care enough to make it an issue and hence politicians can safely ignore it.

Sam Russell

namloc1980 wrote: »

I think the NTA said recently enough they had no plans to open an office in Cork. They have no interest in developing Cork. The draft CMATS was published last May, no sign of the final version and we're in the second month of 2020.

Unfortunately infrastructure and transport is not a vote winner, except when it comes to roads. People just don't care enough to make it an issue and hence politicians can safely ignore it.

There is a simple explanation.

A railway line does not do much for the population through which the line runs, except cause noise and disruption during construction, and the better the line, the fewer stops. The people who benefit most are at each end of the line.

Roads on the other hand provide a much broader benefit, as no matter where you live in the area of the new motorway, it will benefit you (if you are a motorist) as even if you only use it for a few junctions a few times a year, you will marvel at how useful it is.

Look at the opposition to the Luas before it was built. It would be a white elephant and cause huge unnecessary congestion. Once built, it has been jammed with passengers all day. Look at the opposition to the upgrade of the Green Line. Dunville Ave is the epicentre of opposition but the area that benefits most is further south.

If it votes you want, roads trump public transport.

prunudo

Well at least Ross won't be minister for transport again. God knows what way any of the big projects will pan out now though, uncertain few weeks ahead.

Zebra3

Interesting despite all the talk of quality of life as an issue amongst voters especially in the Dublin commuter belt, infrastructure didn’t get a look in as an issue.

Pete_Cavan

Zebra3 wrote: »

Interesting despite all the talk of quality of life as an issue amongst voters especially in the Dublin commuter belt, infrastructure didn’t get a look in as an issue.

And the next government (FF and SF) will have a lot of promises with regard to building houses to make good on so infrastructure will be on the chopping block. I'd say Metrolink happening has become a lot less likely.

prunudo

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

And the next government (FF and SF) will have a lot of promises with regard to building houses to make good on so infrastructure will be on the chopping block. I'd say Metrolink happening has become a lot less likely.

The irony of which that the more houses they build the more important Metrolink(s) become.

Zebra3

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

And the next government (FF and SF) will have a lot of promises with regard to building houses to make good on so infrastructure will be on the chopping block. I'd say Metrolink happening has become a lot less likely.

First of all there's no guarantee it'll be FF/SF. Could as easily be FF/FG.

With regard to metro and DART expansion, it'll be a brave (foolish) politician that'll cancel either of them.

Dublin will come to a standstill sooner rather than later.

Cancelling either will be a false economy.