Family business - advice?

madforroad

I’m going to try make this as brief as I possibly can. Looking for advice

A few months ago a family member decided to take over / open a business. Initially we intended on going 50/50 together on this venture but I am of a young age and banks would not loan me the money etc etc.. (side note I live in this persons house)

In the initial few weeks of business I took ALOT of time off from my own job. (2 weeks A.L and approx 8 days unpaid) I helped out with absolutely everything, from “hard graft” to phone calls to cooking meals for every one helping to get the business up and running. Leaving me heavily out of pocket but I was promised I would be “looked after”

Fast forward... business is booming!! I am still putting in crazy hours helping with every possible thing I can, doing some book work, making phone calls, admin, basically a secretary for this business. I am only getting paid the same minimum wage as the other people employed there, I am only paid for the hours I am actually “working” there, nothing for all the extra work I put in in my own time.

This is starting to annoy me, I am starting to resent this business and the family member running it. What should I do? Bear in mind I live in this persons house, I do contribute to the household (I look after ALL groceries for 4 people, and do all the general house keeping/cooking)

One eyed Jack

What did the other person say when you raised your concerns with them about the ownership and running of the business and your respective roles and responsibilities within the business?

To be perfectly honest, it doesn’t sound like a legitimate business partnership at all.

EL_Loco

what sort of company was setup?
are you named as a director?
what were you promised?
what did you agree to?

You need to formalise your position, responsibilities, rewards.

Put the brakes on if you're not getting concrete answers.

If you have to walk away from the business side do it. Might get the cold shoulder for a while but better than being strung along. Do not let your housing arrangement come into their argument for you doing any work for the business. They are totally separate.

madforroad

EL_Loco wrote: »

what sort of company was setup?
are you named as a director?
what were you promised?
what did you agree to?

You need to formalise your position, responsibilities, rewards.

Put the brakes on if you're not getting concrete answers.

If you have to walk away from the business side do it. Might get the cold shoulder for a while but better than being strung along. Do not let your housing arrangement come into their argument for you doing any work for the business. They are totally separate.

would prefer not to go in to too much detail..

Limited company, I am named as secretary not director

I was promised if I helped out in the running of the business I would be looking after (I assumed this meant being paid more than the regular staff who just do their set hours and go home or whatever)

One eyed Jack

madforroad wrote: »

Thanks for reply.

Technically it is not a partnership. I could not come up with the funds to start up the business at the time so I didn’t “pay in” as such. However my name is still on some things.

I am just not sure should I walk away from the whole thing now, leave the house and the business altogether as it is causing me immense stress.

Or should I wait it out? In the hope that my efforts will eventually be appreciated and I will be rewarded......unlikely lol

Don’t do anything without talking to the other person first, outlining your concerns as you have done here, and give them a chance to respond. If you’re still unsatisfied, then you can decide whether or not it’s an arrangement you’re prepared to put up with.

qwerty13

I think you should walk away.

You couldn’t raise the funds, so I think it’s fair enough that you aren’t a co-owner or partner. I don’t know enough to comment on things that your name is still on, but I think you either need to get proper advice on this as to the impacts of your name still being on things - or get your name removed. I’d be concerned about future liabilities for you (depending on what your name is on, how the business is set up, what if the business gets sued, what if the other party fails to live up to their legal obligations).

You’ve put in tremendous effort above being an employee. So I can understand how it must be galling to be paid minimum wage - but I wasn’t sure if you’re being paid minimum wage for only certain hours, or including the 2 weeks etc that you took out of your own time? However, as you couldn’t raise the funds to be a co-owner, I think the only compensation you can expect is that of an employee - but compensation at what rate, and for what hours, is something that sounds like it was never clarified. It seems like water is seriously muddied from the expectation that you’d be a co-owner, to then not being able to raise the funds for this and taking a step down to being an employee. Had you already taken time off and done the set-up work before it became obvious that you weren’t going to get funding? It’s possible that the now owner feels that you left them in a bad spot my not being able to follow through on your plans, and isn’t exactly well disposed towards you at the moment.

The housing arrangement is completely separate from the business one. I can understand how it adds to your feeling of treated badly, but it’s a different issue. And I can’t understand why you are covering bills for 4 people!

I think all of the above emphasises that you need to establish some boundaries, and also your own living and work arrangements outside of this family member. It has potential to become very very messy.

ETA:
1) are you paying rent in the house, or is you paying for groceries your total contribution?
2) I saw from your next post that you are being paid for the hours you work. So is your grievance that you feel you should be paid more than the other employees (which I can’t comment on re whether it’s fair or not)
3) I do think you should be compensated for your 10 days AL + 8 days unpaid work for this business venture. However, despite me saying that the housing arrangement is separate, if you aren’t paying rent in the house, the other person might feel that you ‘owe them’

madforroad

qwerty13 wrote: »

I think you should walk away.

You couldn’t raise the funds, so I think it’s fair enough that you aren’t a co-owner or partner. I don’t know enough to comment on things that your name is still on, but I think you either need to get proper advice on this as to the impacts of your name still being on things - or get your name removed. I’d be concerned about future liabilities for you (depending on what your name is on, how the business is set up, what if the business gets sued, what if the other party fails to live up to their legal obligations).

You’ve put in tremendous effort above being an employee. So I can understand how it must be falling to be paid minimum wage - but I wasn’t sure if you’re being paid minimum wage for only certain hours, or including the 2 weeks etc that you took out of your own time? However, as you couldn’t raise the funds to be a co-owner, I think the only compensation you can expect is that of an employee - but compensation at what rate, and for what hours, is something that sounds like it was never clarified. It seems like water is seriously muddied from the expectation that you’d be a co-owner, to then not being able to raise the funds for this and taking a step down to being an employee. Had you already taken time off and done the set-up work before it became obvious that you weren’t going to get funding? It’s possible that the now owner feels that you left them in a bad spot my not being able to follow through on your plans, and isn’t exactly well disposed towards you at the moment.

The housing arrangement is completely separate from the business one. I can understand how it adds to your feeling of treated badly, but it’s a different issue. And I can’t understand why you are covering bills for 4 people!

I think all of the above emphasises that you need to establish some boundaries, and also your own living and work arrangements outside of this family member. It has potential to become very very messy.

Thanks for reply

Ya I can feel it getting messy already.

I took time off and helped out even after we established that I couldn’t raise the funds to be part owner. This was established well before any actual work took place.

I was never paid in any way for help I gave setting things up before business actually opened.

I feel as if I am in a managerial type position (without the official title) but not being paid in line with this.

I can wholeheartedly say that the business wouldn’t be going as well if it wasn’t for me, I go above and beyond to bring in business, improve the premises and also do a fair share of advertising on social media etc...

Things came to a head today and there were some heated words exchanged but more in regard to the housing arrangement than the business one. I guess I just need to address both issues tomorrow when the dust settles.

qwerty13

Do you pay market rate rent in the house? Other bills like ESB /tv / internet? I know you said you buy all of the groceries for 4 people (including or excluding yourself?) - at the moment I’m thinking that there's something about the house arrangement that has the other person feeling that you owe them. I’m not saying they’re right - it’s just sounding as that might be how they see it. Messy messy messy.

madforroad

qwerty13 wrote: »

ETA:
1) are you paying rent in the house, or is you paying for groceries your total contribution?
2) I saw from your next post that you are being paid for the hours you work. So is your grievance that you feel you should be paid more than the other employees (which I can’t comment on re whether it’s fair or not)
3) I do think you should be compensated for your 10 days AL + 8 days unpaid work for this business venture. However, despite me saying that the housing arrangement is separate, if you aren’t paying rent in the house, the other person might feel that you ‘owe them’

1) groceries = total contribution. Separate agreement that was put in place a number of years ago.
2) yes I do feel I should be paid some bit more. I take on more responsibility/work/stress than they do so am starting to think I should be paid more.
3) EXACTLY!! I’m sure they are starting to think I do owe them. I feel I make a fair contribution in line with others in the house. Also this arrangement was in place far before any business.

qwerty13

I think it would better if you paid rent and your share of bills, and bought your own groceries. Much cleaner arrangement.

But I think it’s also worth checking how much you do spend for groceries for other people versus what you’d pay in rent and bills to move out. It sounds like both you think that the other person is doing well out of this arrangement! Bear in mind though, market rate rents have gone up a LOT in recent times - what might have seemed to the other person an ok deal re you paying for groceries might well now be sticking in their gut.

Tbh I’d move out of the house. It just sounds way too messy - and doesn’t sound like either of you are happy with the current arrangement.

Maybe their perception of you ‘doing well’ out of the house arrangement has led to them thinking that you should ‘suck it up’ re helping out with the business.

Diceicle

What is the vision for the business arrangement long term? Is it that you buy in to it and become an equal owner?

eeloe

madforroad wrote: »

Thanks for reply

Ya I can feel it getting messy already.

I took time off and helped out even after we established that I couldn’t raise the funds to be part owner. This was established well before any actual work took place.

I was never paid in any way for *help* I gave setting things up before business actually opened.

I feel as if I am in a managerial type position (without the official title) but not being paid in line with this.

I can wholeheartedly say that the business wouldn’t be going as well if it wasn’t for me, I go above and beyond to bring in business, improve the premises and also do a fair share of advertising on social media etc...

Things came to a head today and there were some heated words exchanged but more in regard to the housing arrangement than the business one. I guess I just need to address both issues tomorrow when the dust settles.

This one word here is sticking out like a sore thumb.

If i was helping a family member, i wouldn't expect to be looked after in anyway. if i was working for them i would, help and work are two very different things.

Mrs OBumble

If this business is paying most people minimum wage, it's unlikely to ever be a career enhancing place.

Get a better job elsewhere, which makes you unavailable to help in the family business.

OMM 0000

I'm always suspicious of "you'll be looked after" offers.

It often translates to "I don't want to commit to giving you anything".

I think you were probably naive to go ahead with this without your roles/responsibilities/ownership in writing.

I'd have a sit down to clarify everything, and if the other person continues being vague, I'd walk.

Strumms

1) sit down with the family member and formalize you role and title

2) advise you have an issue working out of hours and not being compensated

3) back off from things like grocery shopping, cooking, eat at different times

4) remember this... when people see you going ‘above and beyond’ that becomes the new ‘expectation’ of you all the time. The new norm. Over and above blurs boundaries. The system goes down on Friday at 6pm, you get it fixed by 8... a month later you are out the door to the cinema, it happens again but you are still walking... “hey you can’t go anywhere, this needs fixing”.... you have created the expectation of you.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Sounds like you took on the position as company secretary without any proper agreement as to what you would be paid.

Are you aware of the responsibilities that comes with being secretary for a limited company?

I think you may have gone into this a bit with your eyes closed.

You should either get a satisfactory agreement in writing or resign.

If you're worried about resigning because you live with them then tell them you've just been informed that there's a clause in your actual employers contract that doesn't allow you to be director or secretary for a company, sorry about that etc etc....

marieholmfan

You just have to have an open and honest conversation with your sibling about how much you've done , how hard you've worked, the financial impact of giving up shifts at your real job and what you want to happen now.

I can't help but think that you should have got some share participation.
Talk about how it will work at the end of the financial year and what you can expect.

Is there a FUTURE for you in this growing business or is that future actually earmarked for yoru neice/ nephew.

Be honest about your FEELINGS and be practical.

beauf

I think its a terrible idea to do any work for family (or anyone) on an informal basis, or free unpaid hours with out a clear recompense agreed before hand. Same with living expenses.

If it me I would cut the ties and live your own life.

Gavin1986

Been there, done that… You should walk away. Or, if you don’t want to leave now, try to express your concern over the situation. And for the future, no matter, who is your employer or partner, you should reach an understanding before going into something together.