Sinn Fein's Paddy Holohan and homophobia

walshb

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yes


https://twitter.com/Michelle_Byrne_/status/1217216923559251978?s=20

Two wrongs, and all that!

Dyr

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yes


https://twitter.com/Michelle_Byrne_/status/1217216923559251978?s=20

Was it Africans and Brazillians bringing HIV in?

Lefty Bicek

KiKi III wrote: »

Well, you seem to be presenting your opinion as though it’s the only valid one.

What you 'seem' to see, is what you find it convenient to see.

I note though, that you say that while quoting a post of mine which suggests the opposite of what you are confused about

The 'just one opinion' applies equally to everyone...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112272639&postcount=286

I was just very politely reminding you that it’s not.

And I will now politely remind you of your hypocrisy -

It’s mad to see people denying the clear racism and homophobia of the remarks. There really is no way to misinterpret what he said.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112272227&postcount=271

Talk about 'presenting your opinion as though it’s the only valid one'.

But clearly you are wrong, and there are actually plenty ways to interpret it other than yours.

Otherwise, no thread, surely ?

ILoveYourVibes

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Talk about 'presenting your opinion as though it’s the only valid one'.

But clearly you are wrong, and there are actually plenty ways to interpret it other than yours.

Otherwise, no thread, surely ?

Its the most reasonable one.

Its also the opinion of the majority.

Lefty Bicek

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its the most reasonable one.

Its also the opinion of the majority.

I don't think it is the most reasonable one.

I could more justly characterise it as the least charitable one.

I don't care that it's the majority one. Don't need the affirmation of the group, you see.

ILoveYourVibes

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I don't think it is the most reasonable one.

I could more justly characterise it as the least charitable one.

I don't care that it's the majority one. Don't need the affirmation of the group, you see.

You do need the affirmation of the people who feel oppressed by what he has said. If only white people are allowed to define racism ...that is actually racist.

If only straight people are allowed to define homophobia that is well i believe this lady put it best.

Gay people get to have a say in what is homophobic and what is not.In fact they must have the ultimate say.

FrancieBrady

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You do need the affirmation of the people who feel oppressed by what he has said. If only white people are allowed to define racism ...that is actually racist.

If only straight people are allowed to define homophobia that is well i believe this lady put it best.

Gay people get to have a say in what is homophobic and what is not.In fact they must have the ultimate say.

The 'victim' here has not defined it as racism or homophobia. Holohan has apologised and said he didn't mean to be racist or homophobic. His apology has been accepted.

Lefty Bicek

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You do need the affirmation of the people who feel oppressed by what he has said. If only white people are allowed to define racism ...that is actually racist.

If only straight people are allowed to define homophobia that is well i believe this lady put it best.

Gay people get to have a say in what is homophobic and what is not.In fact they must have the ultimate say.

Irrelevant.

Worse, seeking the affirmation of the crowd.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'victim' here has not defined it as racism or homophobia. Holohan has apologised and said he didn't mean to be racist or homophobic. His apology has been accepted.

Did you not read the whole interview?

Mr Varadkar said: “I think anyone in Ireland who is from a minority background - whether mixed race or gay or lesbian - has experienced some form of racism or homophobia in their lives.

“I am fortunate in that I haven’t received too much of that, I know it has been a lot worse for a lot many other people.”

ILoveYourVibes

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'victim' here has not defined it as racism or homophobia. Holohan has apologised and said he didn't mean to be racist or homophobic. His apology has been accepted.

The fact that he had to apologize kind of proves he was both racist and homophobic. So does the fact that it was accepted.

If there was no need to apologize you say 'No need to apologize, you did nothing wrong'. If there was a need to apologize you say 'apology accepted'.

Apology accepted confirms Varadkar felt it was homophobic.

If what he said was harmless he would never have apologized because he wouldn't have had to.

Lefty Bicek

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The fact that he had to apologize kind of proves he was both racist and homophobic. So does the fact that it was accepted.

If there was no need to apologize you say 'No need to apologize, you did nothing wrong'. If there was a need to apologize you say 'apology accepted'.

Apology accepted confirms Varadkar felt it was homophobic.

New to politics, are you ?

ILoveYourVibes

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Irrelevant.

Worse, seeking the affirmation of the crowd.

The opinion of gay non white people is irrelevant ?

We are not just talking about leo you know.

A lot of gay and or non white people are offended.

Or do you just imagine the world is white?

ILoveYourVibes

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

New to politics, are you ?

I am not a politician i am a voter.

Lefty Bicek

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The opinion of gay non white people is irrelevant ?

No, just your post, in the context I had been addressing.

A lot of gay and or non white people are offended.

And a lot of straight white people are offended. Not all of them are party-political opportunists, or incessant tub-tumpers, granted.

Or do you just imagine the world is white?

At the moment, I'm imagining a world where you had been locked into that coffee-shop jacks the other day, rather than locked out of it.




.

FrancieBrady

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The fact that he had to apologize kind of proves he was both racist and homophobic.

Even if you feel your remarks are being mis-interpreted and it wasn't what you meant at all?

Leo has had to apologise for a few things himself. 'Deceit' 'Insensitivity' 'Disrespectul'.
Did you accept them?

Lefty Bicek

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am not a politician i am a voter.

So am I.

And am increasingly coming to the view that JS Mill's theory of plural voting, competence, and participation had a lot of merit.

What say you ?

Lefty Bicek

I have to laugh at those who ALWAYS know what the people they despise have in their hearts.

Such intolerant (!) perspicacity. It can't be easy.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Even if you feel your remarks are being mis-interpreted and it wasn't what you meant at all?

Leo has had to apologise for a few things himself. 'Deceit' 'Insensitivity' 'Disrespectul'.
Did you accept them?

I have asked repeatedly of his defenders in which way he misspoke or was misrepresented.

So far all I have got are different versions and different levels of Leo isn’t really Irish.

marieholmfan

Varadkar's response was classy as f ck.
Best thing he's ever done.

As I've said before he's completely convincing as Taoiseach. It's a pity this is the worst government since Cowen.

markodaly

What Paddy Holohan said was not the worse thing in the world but it was certainly racist and homophobic in its connotations.

Leo not a 'family man' was a dog whistle, drawing attention to his sexuality and drawing attention to this Indian heritage was another dog whistle drawing attention to his lack of 'Irishness' because he is not connected to the country and as leader of the country, these two things are negatives.

In other words, it's better to be a person who has a family and comes from pure Irish stock. Who you are is more important than what you stand for.

Yes, it is racist and homophobic and all the whataboutery does not dispell this. (Not surprised the usual 3-4 posters are here defending this)

But is anyone surprised really? These viewpoints are a lot more prevalent than people like to believe. Have a look at Twitter or Facebook and the comments from random people. It's the same type of people usually. People who have the Tricolour as their avatar or user names with the words 'Irish' or 'Freedom' in them.

We saw this with Obama 'the Muslim' back in the way. Now I am not saying Leo is getting it this bad, but there are certainly Irish people out there, who have vile and disgusting thoughts about Leo and are not shy to air them online. Indeed sometimes I wonder is the vitriol spouted here is due to his policy decisions or due to the fact his last name is Varadkar and not 'Murphy'.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I have asked repeatedly of his defenders in which way he misspoke or was misrepresented.

So far all I have got are different versions and different levels of Leo isn’t really Irish.

It was a stupid rambling point open to misinterpretation. It was misinterpreted, his party immediately disassociated itself and publicly demanded that he apologise. He clarified, he apologised for any offence caused and apology was accepted.

Not sure where it goes from here tbh.

JJayoo

I'm not really sure how anyone who spends a great amount of time training MMA could be homophobic, take wrestling and bjj you are gonna spend hours essentially grinding in to another guy not really sure how you could do this with hundreds of different sparing partners if you were hung up on being homophobic....unless they have gaydar installed in the gym and can weed out those sneaky turkeys

Don't think paddy is homophobic in th slightest.

I do think he's a bit of a coward to instantly apologize as soon as he sees any bit of negative feedback. I doubt Leo will give a toss

Plumbthedepths

markodaly wrote: »

What Paddy Holohan said was not the worse thing in the world but it was certainly racist and homophobic in its connotations.

Leo not a 'family man' was a dog whistle, drawing attention to his sexuality and drawing attention to this Indian heritage was another dog whistle drawing attention to his lack of 'Irishness' because he is not connected to the country and as leader of the country, these two things are negatives.

In other words, it's better to be a person who has a family and comes from pure Irish stock. Who you are is more important than what you stand for.

Yes, it is racist and homophobic and all the whataboutery does not dispell this. (Not surprised the usual 3-4 posters are here defending this)

But is anyone surprised really? These viewpoints are a lot more prevalent than people like to believe. Have a look at Twitter or Facebook and the comments from random people. It's the same type of people usually. People who have the Tricolour as their avatar or user names with the words 'Irish' or 'Freedom' in them.

We saw this with Obama 'the Muslim' back in the way. Now I am not saying Leo is getting it this bad, but there are certainly Irish people out there, who have vile and disgusting thoughts about Leo and are not shy to air them online. Indeed sometimes I wonder is the vitriol spouted here is due to his policy decisions or due to the fact his last name is Varadkar and not 'Murphy'.

Somehow I doubt Leo would cast himself in the roll of victim as you are attempting too. Holahan was a gob****e for what he said, he accepted he was in the wrong and apologised. Leo to his credit has accepted the apology.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It was a stupid rambling point open to misinterpretation. It was misinterpreted, his party immediately disassociated itself and publicly demanded that he apologise. He clarified, he apologised for any offence caused and apology was accepted.

Not sure where it goes from here tbh.

He hasn't clarified anything yet.

joe40

Every party has individuals that say or do stupid things, that are odds with the party position.
Whatever your views on Sinn Fein as a party they are pushing a progressive agenda. The guy in Leitrim coming out in favour of the direct provision facility, campaigning for marriage equality in the north etc.
This guys statements are at odds with the party line, but he has apologized, what more can he do.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

He hasn't clarified anything yet.

I think he is saying here that they way the comments were interpreted was not how he intended them to be.

That's the danger of making long rambling incoherent points I reckon.

Cllr Holohan has since apologised for any offence his comments caused, claiming that they were "misinterpreted”.

"I would like to apologise as my comments may have offended people as I of course did not intend to do so,” he wrote on social media today.

"My comments have been misinterpreted and not in anyway [sic] meant the way they have been portrayed.”

ILoveYourVibes

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Even if you feel your remarks are being mis-interpreted and it wasn't what you meant at all?

Leo has had to apologise for a few things himself. 'Deceit' 'Insensitivity' 'Disrespectul'.
Did you accept them?

If i say something and the gay community say that is homophobic then i really have to do some deep soul searching.

But i think we can stop pretending that paddy is at all genuine. He meant to be homophobic. It was deliberate. He knew what he was doing.

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

What Paddy Holohan said was not the worse thing in the world but it was certainly racist and homophobic in its connotations.

Leo not a 'family man' was a dog whistle, drawing attention to his sexuality and drawing attention to this Indian heritage was another dog whistle drawing attention to his lack of 'Irishness' because he is not connected to the country and as leader of the country, these two things are negatives.

In other words, it's better to be a person who has a family and comes from pure Irish stock. Who you are is more important than what you stand for.

Yes, it is racist and homophobic and all the whataboutery does not dispell this. (Not surprised the usual 3-4 posters are here defending this)

But is anyone surprised really? These viewpoints are a lot more prevalent than people like to believe. Have a look at Twitter or Facebook and the comments from random people. It's the same type of people usually. People who have the Tricolour as their avatar or user names with the words 'Irish' or 'Freedom' in them.

We saw this with Obama 'the Muslim' back in the way. Now I am not saying Leo is getting it this bad, but there are certainly Irish people out there, who have vile and disgusting thoughts about Leo and are not shy to air them online. Indeed sometimes I wonder is the vitriol spouted here is due to his policy decisions or due to the fact his last name is Varadkar and not 'Murphy'.

Excellent contribution and I have to agree with most of it.

There is always an undercurrent of racism within any extreme nationalist movement, and sometimes, like this, it rises to the top.

If Sinn Fein are really serious about inclusivity, they really need to think about a name-change, as “Ourselves Alone” in a world of Brexit, Johnson and Trump carries too many negative connotations.

FrancieBrady

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If i say something and the gay community say that is homophobic then i really have to do some deep soul searching.

Does the gay community allow a defence? That's kind of a bit intolerant in and of itself?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think he is saying here that they way the comments were interpreted was not how he intended them to be.

That's the danger of making long rambling incoherent points I reckon.

But what was his intention? Is there a non racist interpretation?