Sinn Fein's Paddy Holohan and homophobia

Annasopra

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Where were those comments?

On the podcast with Terry McMahon

https://www.joe.ie/politics/paddy-holohan-disciplinary-action-sinn-fein-691115

Mr Holohan was interviewing Terry McMahon, the film-maker, on his podcast when the pair started discussing female-only fitness classes. The Sinn Féin councillor, a former MMA fighter, suggested that he would be criticised for having male-only classes.

"I would be slated, 'he hates women,' they wouldn't say 'he hates men,'" Mr Holohan said.




Mr McMahon suggested some women who may be afraid or may have been attacked might want female-only classes, because there are some "scum men" out there.


Paddy Holohan has been suspended from Sinn Féin with immediate effect




Mr Holohan replied: "Now, saying that, I just want to stop you on that, there is some ****ing scum women out there as well. And I just want to say to you, there’s a situation that I heard during the week... somebody was underage, the [other] person didn’t know they were underage, the girl pursued the guy. Got whatever she needed, had pictures, had videos, and then said 'I want 10 grand'.

"And that was, that wasn’t the first person, there was loads of them. What is that kind of situation is that that’s going on in society now? I have two sons. It petrifies me, petrifies me that somebody could turn around and say I’m literally just going to say that you attacked me if you don’t give me 10 grand. And people go, ‘no, that doesn’t happen’. It absolutely, I put my hand on my heart and tell you it does happen. And it is happening out there. So, what happens there?"

The pair went on to discuss the ethics of always believing victims of sexual violence. Mr Holohan suggested that men suffered from double standards, and said a woman could joke about chopping a man's dick off, but a man can't joke about his "bitch" getting into bed, and her annoying him so much that he "strangled her and boxed the head off her".

Ironicname

Joeytheparrot wrote:

You think its ok to joke about strangling your bitch?

Depends on the context, delivery, the audience and the person saying it.

But yes, I would never say that you must never joke about any subject.

Do you think there are sacred cows that can't be joked about?

Ironicname

Joeytheparrot wrote:

On the podcast with Terry McMahon

So he was pointing out that there has been plenty of occasions where high profile women have laughed and joked about a mans penis being mutilated and have seen no repercussions, whereas if a man joked about getting a bitch into bed or assaulting her he would be the worst in the world?

I can't say I disagree that there is a double standard.

Are you suggesting he was saying that he wanted to make jokes or would it not be more reasonable to assume he was saying that men and women should be held to the same standard?

Seems a little like you are taking what you want from that exchange in order to vilify him.

Again, I don't particularly like this guy and disagree with him on most things. But some of the accusations and hyperbole on this thread would be laughable if they weren't so troublesome.

Salary Negotiator

Ironicname wrote: »

So he was pointing out that there has been plenty of occasions where high profile women have laughed and joked about a mans penis being mutilated and have seen no repercussions, whereas if a man joked about getting a bitch into bed or assaulting her he would be the worst in the world?

I can't say I disagree that there is a double standard.

Are you suggesting he was saying that he wanted to make jokes or would it not be more reasonable to assume he was saying that men and women should be held to the same standard?

Seems a little like you are taking what you want from that exchange in order to vilify him.

Again, I don't particularly like this guy and disagree with him on most things. But some of the accusations and hyperbole on this thread would be laughable if they weren't so troublesome.

He seemed to be lamenting the fact that he couldn’t make similar jokes without being held to account.

He raised an Interesting point but I think his outlook is that if someone is getting away with something he feels he should be able to do it too.

Ironicname

Salary Negotiator wrote:

He seemed to be lamenting the fact that he couldn’t make similar jokes without being held to account.

And I agree with him.

It's not that he wants to make the joke, but why should a woman be allowed to make a similar or worse joke without consequence?

Salary Negotiator wrote:

He raised an Interesting point but I think his outlook is that if someone is getting away with something he feels he should be able to do it too.

And he should if society treated men and women equally.

The fact that I heard it differently than you speaks volumes that perhaps people just read what they want into someone's words if it agrees/opposes their own opinion agenda.

I'm not omitting myself from that either. I'm just saying that anyone who says they no for sure that he is sexist, mysoginistic, racist or homophobic is biased. Just as I would be if I said I knew for sure he wasn't.

It's telling that most aren't willing to give the benefit of the doubt because for some reason, in their mind there is no doubt.

Salary Negotiator

Ironicname wrote: »

And I agree with him.

It's not that he wants to make the joke, but why should a woman be allowed to make a similar or worse joke without consequence?



And he should if society treated men and women equally.

The fact that I heard it differently than you speaks volumes that perhaps people just read what they want into someone's words if it agrees/opposes their own opinion agenda.

I'm not omitting myself from that either. I'm just saying that anyone who says they no for sure that he is sexist, mysoginistic, racist or homophobic is biased. Just as I would be if I said I knew for sure he wasn't.

It's telling that most aren't willing to give the benefit of the doubt because for some reason, in their mind there is no doubt.

I think he’d be more likely to get the benefit of the doubt if it was a once off but it was 3 different topics and 3 different points that could be misinterpreted.

Once is unfortunate, twice is unlikely and 3 times is extremely unlikely.

Now it could be that he is being completely misinterpreted, but if that’s the case then at best he’s not articulate enough to be a public representative or at worst he’s not intelligent enough to understand the topics he’s discussing.

Neither bodes well for his future political career.

Ironicname

Salary Negotiator wrote:

Now it could be that he is being completely misinterpreted, but if that’s the case then at best he’s not articulate enough to be a public representative or at worst he’s not intelligent enough to understand the topics he’s discussing.

My own personal opinion is pretty much that. I don't and never had much faith in him as a public representative, but some of the comments on here comparing him to a white supremacist is a damning indication of certain very vocal minority in society.

*Sits and waits to be told I am against minorities*

Salary Negotiator

Ironicname wrote: »

My own personal opinion is pretty much that. I don't and never had much faith in him as a public representative, but some of the comments on here comparing him to a white supremacist is a damning indication of certain very vocal minority in society.

*Sits and waits to be told I am against minorities*

I’d come down on the other side, I think that while there is some ambiguity in his comments (particularly the family man part) on the balance of probabilities he probably is a racist, misogynistic, homophobe albeit more in an ignorant way than anything else.

facehugger99

The ambiguity in his comments is probably more a reflection of his inability to string a coherently racist and homophobic comment together.

Ash.J.Williams

jh79 wrote: »

More stupid implies it was somewhat racist?

I thought SF did ok with it. 24hrs too late but got there in the end.

Yet to hear a credible non racist/xenophobic interpretation of his remarks.

I don’t agree one can Poorly educated, ignorant and stupid and say the wrong things without real malice

Ironicname

Salary Negotiator wrote:

I’d come down on the other side, I think that while there is some ambiguity in his comments (particularly the family man part) on the balance of probabilities he probably is a racist, misogynistic, homophobe albeit more in an ignorant way than anything else.

In your opinion, if someone told jokes about black people, women and gay people, does that make them a racist, a mysoginist and a homophobe?

Salary Negotiator

Ironicname wrote: »

In your opinion, if someone told jokes about black people, women and gay people, does that make them a racist, a mysoginist and a homophobe?

That’s a loaded question because paddy wasn’t telling jokes

But to answer your question, no not necessarily it would depend on the joke and context.

Ironicname

Salary Negotiator wrote:

That’s a loaded question because paddy wasn’t telling jokes

No, he was saying that women can joke about violence towards men but men can't do the same about women.

He also told anecdotal stories that he said he knew of girls who blackmail men after coercing them unwillingly to having sex with a minor.

He has been called a mysoginistic idiot for doing so.

I don't think that's fair.

Salary Negotiator

Ironicname wrote: »

No, he was saying that women can joke about violence towards men but men can't do the same about women.

He also told anecdotal stories that he said he knew of girls who blackmail men after coercing them unwillingly to having sex with a minor.

He has been called a mysoginistic idiot for doing so.

I don't think that's fair.

And he was right about the double standard, but he seemed more upset that he couldn’t make the same jokes. What he should have said was that women shouldn’t make those jokes. As a politician he should be trying to improve societal standards.

Even the anecdote makes no sense. Why would someone pay the bribe and then tell people that he had sexual with an underage girl? The whole point of paying the bribe was to keep that information quiet.

It’s more likely that he was either parroting some claim he read somewhere or just made it up in an attempt to justify his women are bad ideas.

Ash.J.Williams

Ironicname wrote: »

No, he was saying that women can joke about violence towards men but men can't do the same about women.

He also told anecdotal stories that he said he knew of girls who blackmail men after coercing them unwillingly to having sex with a minor.

He has been called a mysoginistic idiot for doing so.

I don't think that's fair.

To comment on what you just said.. an elected councillor admitted publicly that he is aware of a few rapes and hasn’t taken any action on it?

Ironicname

Ash.J.Williams wrote:

To comment on what you just said.. an elected councillor admitted publicly that he is aware of a few rapes and hasn’t taken any action on it?

He has no evidence other than anecdotal. What should he do?

Ironicname

Salary Negotiator wrote:

And he was right about the double standard, but he seemed more upset that he couldn’t make the same jokes. What he should have said was that women shouldn’t make those jokes. As a politician he should be trying to improve societal standards.

Improve societal standards?

Politicians haven't and shouldn't have any right to tell people what they can joke about.

Salary Negotiator

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

To comment on what you just said.. an elected councillor admitted publicly that he is aware of a few rapes and hasn’t taken any action on it?

He’s also aware of loads of blackmail schemes as well.

Though Sinn Fein wouldn’t normally be keen on reporting crimes to the proper authorities, they like to keep that stuff in-house so maybe he’s just following party guidelines.

Ironicname

Salary Negotiator wrote:

He’s also aware of loads of blackmail schemes as well.

Again, anecdotal. He has no recourse there.

Salary Negotiator wrote:

Though Sinn Fein wouldn’t normally be keen on reporting crimes to the proper authorities, they like to keep that stuff in-house so maybe he’s just following party guidelines.

I am not a sinn fein supporter and have never voted for them in my life, but that seems a little unnecessary.

Salary Negotiator

Ironicname wrote: »

I am not a sinn fein supporter and have never voted for them in my life, but that seems a little unnecessary.

You’re not alone, a lot of people who post in support of Sinn Fein or Sinn Fein members have never voted for them.

Ironicname

Salary Negotiator wrote:

You’re not alone, a lot of people who post in support of Sinn Fein or Sinn Fein members have never voted for them.

I'm not sure if that is sarcasm or if you are implying I'm lying but I am not supporting this person.

I have already said I don't like him in any way. I just think the dog-piling is unwarranted and that people are using this guy as a stick to beat sinn fein with.

I'm not interested in the politics, I'm just commenting about the cancel culture aspect.

horsebox1977

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Jesus, man, you’re losing it. This is a thread about SF by the way. Bit of a brass neck to be calling young Leo a sociopath when your own glorious leader for 35 years was disappearing mothers, giving the nod to bombing shopping centers, and sending his fat pedo brother over the border so he could continue to fiddle kids.

Pathetic most by you in fairness.....

Edgware

Ironicname wrote: »

Again, anecdotal. He has no recourse there.



I am not a sinn fein supporter and have never voted for them in my life, but that seems a little unnecessary.

Unnecessary but true

Ironicname

Edgware wrote:

Unnecessary but true

Indeed.

KiKi III

When has any high profile woman ever joked about cutting off a man’s penis??

Plumbthedepths

KiKi III wrote: »

When has any high profile woman ever joked about cutting off a man’s penis??

There you go.

https://youtu.be/rCGRJVCwUOs

Ironicname

KiKi III wrote:

When has any high profile woman ever joked about cutting off a man’s penis??

The View. Sharon Osbourne.

blanch152

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Lies? Are you claiming I misrepresented you? The latent snobbery and superiority is evident in the piece of your OP I quoted. Its amusing to see you try and distance yourself from your own words. It has not just me that has seen the hypocrisy in your behaviour here.

I have to say that when you are directing your bile at an anonymous internet poster when trying to defend a racist, homophobic, misogynist Sinn Fein councillor, you kind of need to reconsider your priorities.

Yes, you and tipptom and others can try and make me the story, and it would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.

Ironicname

Racist, homophobic mysoginist.

Jesus wept.

I suppose anyone who thinks that it is plausible that some girls lied about their age and have used sex to blackmail men and because they agree there is a double standard between how men and women are viewed in society they are mysoginist?

The homophobic thing is absolute rubbish too unless you yourself think gay men can't be family men. Leo himself has said much more homophobic things.

The racist thing I grant you. It was a thick thing to say and I wouldn't necessarily call it racist myself but out of all the things he said, it's the hardest to defend.

blanch152

Ironicname wrote: »

Racist, homophobic mysoginist.

Jesus wept.

Yes, he is all three, a vile disgusting man