Sinn Fein's Paddy Holohan and homophobia

Ironicname

Deleted User wrote:

francie, pretty much everybody decided it was a homophobic and racist statement

Not true. A vocal minority have.

jh79 wrote:

Sorry your right , he didn't say impure, he said his blood runs to India or something close.

And does his bloodline not somewhat trace back to India due to his father being Indian?

Would it be acceptable to say that his immediate family history (parents, grandparents) would be less Irish than somebody whose whole family is multi generationally Irish?

It's neither a negative or a positive for me personally as I am not the furthest from a republican you can be, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility or acceptability that someone who would be passionate about the 1916 uprising to prefer a leader whose family lines run through that.

I don't think that's racist at all.

Ironicname

blanch152 wrote:

There is nothing more sinister, devious and disgusting on an internet forum than the denial of insidious dog whistle racism, homophobia and misogyny.

There is.

Plenty.

Dog whistling the "woke" crowd to attack purely for your own political agenda while not caring about the matter is equally sinister, devious and disgusting.

Annasopra

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fairly clear the Irish people seen through the way this stupid and irrational outburst by a councillor was being exploited by some.
Everybody understands (because they all have fruitcake councillors from every party in their experiences) that there is very little a party can do to guard against this kind of stuff happening. As I said about Bailey and The Black and Tan episodes, it was how a leader got ahead of these things when they happen is what ultimately matter.

Jaysus. That's some whataboutery.

blanch152

Ironicname wrote: »

Not true. A vocal minority have.



And does his bloodline not somewhat trace back to India due to his father being Indian?

Would it be acceptable to say that his immediate family history (parents, grandparents) would be less Irish than somebody whose whole family is multi generationally Irish?

It's neither a negative or a positive for me personally as I am not the furthest from a republican you can be, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility or acceptability that someone who would be passionate about the 1916 uprising to prefer a leader whose family lines run through that.

I don't think that's racist at all.

Astonishing.

You pretty much define racism, give a brilliant example of racism, and then deny it is racist.

To give another example, why wouldn't many Germans in the early 1930s want a pure German-blood as leader who was passionate about their defeat in the First World War?

marieholmfan

Ironicname wrote: »

There is.

Plenty.

Dog whistling the "woke" crowd to attack purely for your own political agenda while not caring about the matter is equally sinister, devious and disgusting.

If there's one thing that Holohan wasn't it's devious!


Sinn Fein's relationship with knee jerk ethnonationalism is quite an interesting one.

ghost of ireland past

I see people on this thread are now getting warnings if they express themselves.

Censorship does not work and it is driving the world into the arms of Trump. Trump is only the first, what follows after will be much worse. And it will have been caused by people who just cannot handle differences of opinion.


The West is in complete freefall.

Ironicname

blanch152 wrote:

You pretty much define racism, give a brilliant example of racism, and then deny it is racist.

Excuse me? It is racist that somebody from a republican party would prefer someone with a deep rooted Irish family history to be leader of Ireland?

Thats racist now? Jesus wept.

seamus

Ironicname wrote: »

but it's not beyond the realms of possibility or acceptability that someone who would be passionate about the 1916 uprising to prefer a leader whose family lines run through that.

It wouldn't be racist if someone said that specifically - "My family were involved in 1916 and I think a leader should have been raised on first-hand stories about the rising".

But he didn't. His comments were about Irish bloodlines in general and the insinuation that Varadkar wasn't "fully" Irish. That is racist, intentional or not.

Ash.J.Williams

Ironicname wrote: »

Excuse me? It is racist that somebody from a republican party would prefer someone with a deep rooted Irish family history to be leader of Ireland?

Thats racist now? Jesus wept.

it's absolutely the definition of discrimination

Ironicname

blanch152 wrote:

To give another example, why wouldn't many Germans in the early 1930s want a pure German-blood as leader who was passionate about their defeat in the First World War?

That comparison only works if you are suggesting that this person is a new Hitler or suggesting that he wants to murder people for their race.

You are using a Hitler example comparing this situation with Nazi Germany?

Impossible to take you seriously.

blanch152

Ironicname wrote: »

Excuse me? It is racist that somebody from a republican party would prefer someone with a deep rooted Irish family history to be leader of Ireland?

Thats racist now? Jesus wept.

Yes, it is pretty much the definition of racism to prefer someone as Taoiseach because they have "a deep rooted Irish family history" instead of preferring someone because they were the best candidate.

Ironicname

Ash.J.Williams wrote:

it's absolutely the definition of discrimination

I'd call it xenophobic perhaps. Racist no.

Ash.J.Williams

flanagan is a deep rooted irish politician and he's a bloody tan fancier

blanch152

Ironicname wrote: »

I'd call it xenophobic perhaps. Racist no.

Xenophobia is a subset of racism under Irish law.

https://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/RevisedActs/WithAnnotations/HTML/EN_ACT_2000_0008.HTM

"h) that they are of different race, colour, nationality or ethnic or national origins (the “ground of race”),"

So yes, it is racist.

Ironicname

blanch152 wrote:

Yes, it is pretty much the definition of racism to prefer someone as Taoiseach because they have "a deep rooted Irish family history" instead of preferring someone because they were the best candidate.

To extrapolate this to its conclusion, I assume you think that any sort of gender/race quota in education/employment is also racism and discrimination and would be equally upset about it?

KiKi III

Ironicname wrote: »

I'd call it xenophobic perhaps. Racist no.

Anyone else thinking that with the level of time and energy Ironicname is dedicating to this, we might be in conversation with Paddy himself?

facehugger99

Ironicname wrote: »

Would it be acceptable to say that his immediate family history (parents, grandparents) would be less Irish than somebody whose whole family is multi generationally Irish?

One would wonder about the point of such a statement, other than to dog-whistle a few racists to the cause.

schmoo2k

Ironicname wrote: »

Excuse me? It is racist that somebody from a republican party would prefer someone with a deep rooted Irish family history to be leader of Ireland?

Thats racist now? Jesus wept.

My father happens to be Canadian (resident in Ireland since before I was born) - to suggest I am less preferable as a politician because of that is blatantly wrong (don't care what label you put on it)...

blanch152

Ironicname wrote: »

To extrapolate this to its conclusion, I assume you think that any sort of gender/race quota in education/employment is also racism and discrimination and would be equally upset about it?

No, because the legislation allows for such actions to remove discrimination.

SaintLeibowitz

KiKi III wrote: »

Anyone else thinking that with the level of time and energy Ironicname is dedicating to this, we might be in conversation with Paddy himself?

You find the alt right on the net spend their time disputing what is racist continually.

marieholmfan

KiKi III wrote: »

Anyone else thinking that with the level of time and energy Ironicname is dedicating to this, we might be in conversation with Paddy himself?

No Ironicname is using complete sentences!

marieholmfan

schmoo2k wrote: »

My father happens to be Canadian (resident in Ireland since before I was born) - to suggest I am less preferable as a politician because of that is blatantly wrong (don't care what label you put on it)...

How do you feel about crippling homeless people with forklifts?

Ironicname

schmoo2k wrote:

My father happens to be Canadian (resident in Ireland since before I was born) - to suggest I am less preferable as a politician because of that is blatantly wrong (don't care what label you put on it)...

I am not suggesting that you wouldn't be.

I'm suggesting that someone whose politics are intrinsically linked to historical events may have a personal preference for a different candidate whose family has a strong Irish history.

That isnt racist in my opinion.

MakingMovies2

Ironicname wrote: »

I am not suggesting that you wouldn't be.

I'm suggesting that someone whose politics are intrinsically linked to historical events may have a personal preference for a different candidate whose family has a strong Irish history.

That isnt racist in my opinion.

But surely Varadkers mother would give him connection to Ireland history? Or is that reserved for whites only? The mask is slipping.

Phoebas

MakingMovies2 wrote: »

But surely Varadkers mother would give him connection to Ireland history? Or is that reserved for whites only? The mask is slipping.

Where you find homophobia and racism, misogyny is bound to be nearby.

MakingMovies2

Phoebas wrote: »

Where you find homophobia and racism, misogyny is bound to be nearby.

True. The staunch defenders of holohan are quite the cocktail of bigotry. Shocking stuff.

schmoo2k

Ironicname wrote: »

I am not suggesting that you wouldn't be.

I'm suggesting that someone whose politics are intrinsically linked to historical events may have a personal preference for a different candidate whose family has a strong Irish history.

That isnt racist in my opinion.

If that "personal preference" isn't based on individual merit, but rather due to some ancestry connection with a foreign country, then I am pretty sure your opinion isn't sound.
(Obviously you are fully entitled to your opinion)

conorhal

MakingMovies2 wrote: »

But surely Varadkers mother would give him connection to Ireland history? Or is that reserved for whites only? The mask is slipping.

An utter contempt for ones history is more a FG trait then an Indian one.


Then again Leo might me like one of those Indians that wax nostaligic about days of the Raj (yes they do exist) in the same way FG miss the Crown and commonwealth. Some people just can't live without a boot on their throat.

MakingMovies2

conorhal wrote: »

An utter contempt for ones history is more a FG trait then an Indian one.


Then again Leo might me like one of those Indians that wax nostaligic about days of the Raj (yes they do exist) in the same way FG miss the Crown and commonwealth. Some people just can't live without a boot on their throat.

So you're implying that Varadker is a West Brit? Surely his stance on brexit and his refusal to humour Boris Johnson would suggest otherwise. Or maybe you're looking for a reason to hate him other than his skin colour. You're not fooling anyone.

conorhal

MakingMovies2 wrote: »

So you're implying that Varadker is a West Brit? Surely his stance on brexit and his refusal to humour Boris Johnson would suggest otherwise. Or maybe you're looking for a reason to hate him other than his skin colour. You're not fooling anyone.

Some people develop a taste for polish after licking too many boots.
In Leo's case it's Brussel's boots.