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Sinn Fein's Paddy Holohan and homophobia

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    #122
    Nift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Nift


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Sexuality wasn't mentioned. I know that the blueshirts have always been obsessed with sodomites (as Charlie Flanagan's dear old da used to say) but I think your neuroses are showing darling.

    So why are Sf asking him to apologise?


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    #123
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Nift wrote: »
    So why are Sf asking him to apologise?
    Wokeburger snowflake rubbish.
    And so they can try to tar FG with every intemperate remark made by 75 year old county councillor.


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    #124
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    And what point was Holohan trying to make?

    Only straight Irish people with children should be Taoiseach?

    I am struggling to understand the point he was making, perhaps you might elaborate.

    You're trying too hard blanch.
    He was trying to say what type of person he wanted as Taoiseach and made a balls of it. He too has clarified.


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    #125
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Someone should ask how Paddy got a council house as single man with no kids
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #126
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You're trying too hard blanch.
    He was trying to say what type of person he wanted as Taoiseach and made a balls of it. He too has clarified.

    And what about his commentS on Leo's heritage? You ok with that?

    SF demanded Verona Murphy be expelled from FG, should he be expelled from SF?


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    #127
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Gatling wrote: »
    Someone should ask how Paddy got a council house as single man with no kids

    I doubt that, very few single men with no kids get council houses these days.


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    #128
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    jh79 wrote: »
    And what about his commentS on Leo's heritage? You ok with that?

    SF demanded Verona Murphy be expelled from FG, should he be expelled from SF?
    Verona Murphy has been clear that she isn't a racist.


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    #129
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You're trying too hard blanch.
    He was trying to say what type of person he wanted as Taoiseach and made a balls of it. He too has clarified.

    Yes, he was saying the Taoiseach should be a straight family man with kids who could trace his lineage back to Brian Boru not India.

    Did I miss something?


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    #130
    dobby896
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭dobby896


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Sexuality wasn't mentioned. I know that the blueshirts have always been obsessed with sodomites (as Charlie Flanagan's dear old da used to say) but I think your neuroses are showing darling.

    Your use of the word "sodomites" is crude.

    Why reduce this thread to a mud-slinging match?


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    #131
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    The kernel of Holohan's criticism of Leo is that he is out of touch.
    He continued: "The man that is a family man, goes to work, looks after his kids, has came up through the system, has experience... someone who knows what the masses or people are going through."

    Now, because I'm not a SJW constantly looking to be offended by very little, I take 'man' here to be a shorthand, or a liguistic convention; rather than a strict category of 'adult male'.

    Leo is a cold fish, and a privileged cold fish at that. A charm-free zone.

    The RIC/DMP charade, and the fantastic rebuke it got from people all over Ireland, proves Holohan's point very well.

    It has nothing to do with racism whatsoever.

    Anyone wanting to be a smart-arse about people taking too many blows to the head, could just as easily reference the inexplicable decision of a working-class man from a working class area in Dublin,to stand as a Fine Gael councillor.

    Really all this is, is the disconnect between the SF social agenda machine on the one hand, and a substantial number of it's constituency on the other. The former won't refuse the votes of the latter though.

    Big deal about nothing.


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    #132
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    dobby896 wrote: »
    Your use of the word "sodomites" is crude.

    Why reduce this thread to a mud-slinging match?
    That's the old FG term for it from the Alice Glenn and Oliver Flanagan days.


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    #133
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I am not surprised that you don't understand how an indirect reference to the sexuality of a politician is homophobic. This little paragraph might explain it to you better:

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Family_values

    "In contemporary American politics, "family values" is known as a code word or dog whistle — something that disguises more hateful aspects of an agenda as something nice and innocent. It refers to a part of the Christian right-wing agenda of "God, gays and abortion." By using a code word that is carefully chosen, a politician (or person) can say they are "for family values" and sound as all-American as apple pie, but what they mean is that they intend to promote this particular narrow and anti-intellectual agenda. Their opponent is stuck in a foolish tangle of phraseology - how can they say they are against "family values"? And yet calling them on it doesn't work either, since it sounds boorish to accuse someone of not really being for "family values".

    Thus the group bringing the issues of abortion, homosexuality and school prayer into the political arena does not have to use any of those words, but their opponent has to in order to confront them, making them seem more "narrow issue" oriented."

    We have seen all of these behaviours in this thread, as I said quite an eye-opener.

    Another highly personalised post. Ran out of road again.
    I don't give a **** what you claim to think about me. You're full of hypocrisy and piss.
    I dont see you jumping in once to defend the Greens.
    The lad was ignorant and stupid but not homophobic.
    I've likely done more than you to help further gay rights in Ireland.
    What did Leo mean about people who 'like' to get up early in the morning?
    I stand by my opinion despite your bitter slurs. You should try it.


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    #134
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Yes, he was saying the Taoiseach should be a straight family man with kids who could trace his lineage back to Brian Boru not India.

    Did I miss something?
    Brian Boru was a usurper and in league with the Vikings. The Ui Neill are the rightful kings of Ireland.


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    #135
    Jim Root
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Jim Root


    "Holohan became a father at age 19. He has two sons. His eldest son is named Tiernan, after the Irish comedian Tommy Tiernan, whom Holohan credits with keeping his morale up during tough periods in his life"

    The bar is set high with this lad.


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    #136
    dobby896
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭dobby896


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    That's the old FG term for it from the Alice Glenn and Oliver Flanagan days.

    I understand that but slurs should be avoided.


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    #137
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    dobby896 wrote: »
    I understand that but slurs should be avoided.
    Your quite right. Do you think it would be better to delete the post or edit in an apology/


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    #138
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You're trying too hard blanch.
    He was trying to say what type of person he wanted as Taoiseach and made a balls of it. He too has clarified.

    The councillor adds that it “bugs him to death” that Mr Varadkar leads the country.

    “He’s so separated not even from society now, but he’s so separated from the history of this country,” he said.

    “I’m for immigration, I’m for bringing people into the country.”

    He said that Mr Varadkar’s grandfather was not part of the “history of this country”.

    “Leo Varadkar’s blood obviously runs to India you know so his great grandfather is not part of the history of this country, you know what I mean? Now, Leo obviously is, he’s an Irish citizen but his passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to,” he added.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-councillor-paddy-holohan-apologises-for-controversial-comments-about-varadkar-38867738.html


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    #139
    Corholio
    Registered Users Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Corholio


    It's always hilarious when someone's excuse is that their quotes were 'misinterpreted'. The only way what he said, especially with the 'blood' and his lineage thing, is that if the correct comments word for word were not correctly published, which doesn't seem to be the case here.

    Pretty idiotic comments really. I don't know if he is homophobic or racist in thought, he mightn't be at all, but it doesn't take being that to see the type of people that shouldn't be involved in any kind of office. Another 'Irish blood only' idiot imo, the 'only Irish have passion for things' nonsense.

    Leo is a ****ing idiot too btw and a shambles of a leader with flaky opinions on things like gay marriage.


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    #140
    dobby896
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭dobby896


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Your quite right. Do you think it would be better to delete the post or edit in an apology/

    Up to you


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    #141
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Balf wrote: »
    Sort of interesting that he makes the comments in a podcast where he's in conversation with Ibrahim Halawa. Funny old world.

    Halawa's auldfella, the head of the Muslim Brotherhood in Ireland (and possibly Europe), is not shy about making his feelings known about 'sinners' and 'sodomites'. I s'pose the religious extremists have that much in common, no matter their denomination.
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You're trying too hard blanch.
    He was trying to say what type of person he wanted as Taoiseach and made a balls of it. He too has clarified.

    Incorrect. He's trying to say what type of person he doesn't want as Taoiseach.


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    #142
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    My mother is like this. If she dislikes someone they're a n* or their religion is brought up. If she likes them than she's horrified that anyone would even mention their race or their sexuality or their religion.




    jh79 wrote: »
    The councillor adds that it “bugs him to death” that Mr Varadkar leads the country.

    “He’s so separated not even from society now, but he’s so separated from the history of this country,” he said.

    “I’m for immigration, I’m for bringing people into the country.”

    He said that Mr Varadkar’s grandfather was not part of the “history of this country”.

    “Leo Varadkar’s blood obviously runs to India you know so his great grandfather is not part of the history of this country, you know what I mean? Now, Leo obviously is, he’s an Irish citizen but his passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to,” he added.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-councillor-paddy-holohan-apologises-for-controversial-comments-about-varadkar-38867738.html


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    #143
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    jh79 wrote: »
    The councillor adds that it “bugs him to death” that Mr Varadkar leads the country.

    “He’s so separated not even from society now, but he’s so separated from the history of this country,” he said.

    “I’m for immigration, I’m for bringing people into the country.”

    He said that Mr Varadkar’s grandfather was not part of the “history of this country”.

    “Leo Varadkar’s blood obviously runs to India you know so his great grandfather is not part of the history of this country, you know what I mean? Now, Leo obviously is, he’s an Irish citizen but his passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to,” he added.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-councillor-paddy-holohan-apologises-for-controversial-comments-about-varadkar-38867738.html

    Indeed.


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    #144
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jh79 wrote: »
    And what about his commentS on Leo's heritage? You ok with that?

    SF demanded Verona Murphy be expelled from FG, should he be expelled from SF?

    Here is what I said:
    Awfully stupid way to make a point by Holohan.

    There were people all over the country (including me) last week shouting from the rafters that Leo was 'separated from society and separated from the history of the country'.

    All racists too?

    I agree that Leo is separated, i don't agree with his reasoning though.


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    #145
    Nift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Nift


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You're trying too hard blanch.
    He was trying to say what type of person he wanted as Taoiseach and made a balls of it. He too has clarified.

    stop what he said was outrageous and now he has doubled down on it by saying they were misrepresented.

    "Leo Varadkar’s blood ­obviously runs to India. His great-grandfather is not part of the history of this ­country. Now Leo obviously is.

    "He’s an Irish ­citizen but his ­passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to."

    My daughter has Indian heritage and **** anybody who thinks her mixed blood makes her less Irish.

    LEO VARADKAR'S MOTHER IS IRISH

    the irony when Pearse, Tone, Emmet, yeats, DEV etc etc had mixed heritage.


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    #146
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    comments are very clear tbh, there's not much misinterpreting them

    but tbh if a fella is going to represent the people and be man of the people and all that then possibly its for the best that he just says it straight out

    then people cant claim they didnt know what they were voting for


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    #147
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Nift wrote: »
    stop what he said was outrageous and now he has doubled down on it by saying they were misrepresented.

    "Leo Varadkar’s blood ­obviously runs to India. His great-grandfather is not part of the history of this ­country. Now Leo obviously is.

    "He’s an Irish ­citizen but his ­passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to."

    My daughter has Indian heritage and **** anybody who thinks her mixed blood makes her less Irish.
    Well your anger makes perfect sense and you have no obligation to make excuses for anyone. Especially if you think they have basically insulted your child.


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    #148
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Yes, he was saying the Taoiseach should be a straight family man with kids who could trace his lineage back to Brian Boru not India.

    Did I miss something?

    Where did he say anything about 'straight'?

    I have gay friends who have 2 children. I have gay friends who don't.

    I think people with children or who had children make better teachers. Is that homopobic?

    P.S. I don't think a Taoiseach needs to have children, I think that is a 'stupid' thing to say.


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    #149
    Nift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Nift


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Well your anger makes perfect sense and you have no obligation to make excuses for anyone. Especially if you think they have basically insulted your child.

    AH part of me could deal with it if it didn't venture into the plain dumb, stuff we talked about recently. Irish history has loads of mixed identities.

    Dev, Pearse, Tone, Emmett etc etc.


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    #150
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Here is what I said:



    There were people all over the country (including me) last week shouting from the rafters that Leo was 'separated from society and separated from the history of the country'.

    All racists too?

    I agree that Leo is separated, i don't agree with his reasoning though.

    Yes, you said it was an awful way to make a point, I get that.

    What I don't get is what point you think he was trying to make. Your post implies that you believe the point he was making was valid, just that he was clumsy in doing so. So I ask you again, please tell us, in language that isn't offensive, what point was Holohan making about Varadkar?


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    #151
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Here is what I said:



    There were people all over the country (including me) last week shouting from the rafters that Leo was 'separated from society and separated from the history of the country'.

    All racists too?

    I agree that Leo is separated, i don't agree with his reasoning though.

    You don't think what he said is racist, not even in the slightest?


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