Sinn Fein's Paddy Holohan and homophobia

seamus

Daisy78 wrote: »

I’ve heard that references to “family man/woman” in the context of politicians running for high political office before .

I think it's meant to conjure up images of an "ordinary, honest, hardworking" person - who must have a heart because they have kids, right - with the snide implicaton that they have an investment in the future and therefore a reason not to make a balls of things.

It's a weasel word in reality.

Call the dogs of war off lads.
He's stupid, but racism is a bit of a long stretch here.

It's really not Francie. It's the exact message of Gemmaroid and her clowns. "You might be Irish by law, but you're not Irish by blood".
You can at best argue that it's unconscious racism - that is, he doesn't actually think he's being racist. But it is, absolutely, 100%. Any implication that someone cannot be <insert nationality here> because of <insert vague reference to heritage here>, is by definition, racism.

JohnnyFlash

I wonder if some of the usuals would be so quick to advocate the old forgive and forget approach if some FG nobody was to suggest that Nordies aren’t quite as Irish as the rest of us?

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

jaysis. there are no words. You are defending him, his comment was racist (as well as potentially homophobic - harder to say)

Just because my daughter has south african indian heritage makers her no less irish than you or i. No less passionate, no less enthusiastic about Ireland, no less gaelic, not seperated etc etc. And if somebody said that to her i'd break their face. She's 11, just like Leo and his siter was some time in the past. Both Irishmen and women.

I mean is Paddy so certain of his pure blood?

'Now Leo obviously is'....that wee sentence that you will no doubt continue to ignore as you fulminate.

My view of somebody's passion is entirely up to my judgement.

My son would think he is passionate about tidiness, my view would be different, in fact, I think he is quite separate from it.

Nift

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He attributed his separateness from our history to it.

He never at any stage said he was less Irish.

FFS he said clearly that 'it's obvious he is a part of it (our history)'

Call the dogs of war off lads.
He's stupid, but racism is a bit of a long stretch here.

are you being deliberately thick to troll?

He said - "He’s an Irish ­citizen but his ­passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to." He also referenced blood

ergo he is claiming leo is not "us" not ours.....the but also indicating it as a negative/inferior position ergo according to the definition of racism - the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races - he was racist.

Now like i said PH is probably not a racist. But its incredibly stupid. and an indicator of SF's many many problems and double speak ideals.

A party trying to be all things to all men/women....nationalist, working class, pro-immigration, puts down the gun keeps fighting the special courts, stil lkeeping nefarious ties to certain people, trying to attract the middle class gaelgoirs like mary lou/o'broinn but canvassing hard in ballybough or jobstown. Wanting a wealth tax but want to abolish property tax. I mean like i said wait till the slow followers actually realise Mary might give up their flag and anthem etc.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I wonder if some of the usuals would be so quick to advocate the old forgive and forget approach if some FG nobody was to suggest that Nordies aren’t quite as Irish as the rest of us?

Some 'Nordies' are quite separate to the history I am passionate about. But I argued long and hard against some of the posters up in arms here that they are as Irish as I am.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

are you being deliberately thick to troll?

He said - "He’s an Irish ­citizen but his ­passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to." He also referenced blood

ergo he is claiming leo is not "us" not ours.....the but also indicating it as a negative/inferior position ergo according to the definition of racism - the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Yes, and neither does Charlie Flanagan's match his.

What is wrong with saying that?

Phoebas

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is wrong with saying that?

Does Holohan not rate maternal lines at all?

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Some 'Nordies' are quite separate to the history I am passionate about. But I argued long and hard against some of the posters up in arms here that they are as Irish as I am.

What would define Irishness for you? If someone plays hurling then are they more Irish that someone who plays cricket for example? I’m slightly confused at what you are trying to imply.

gmisk

His half assed "apology"
Nope that won't do it.

https://twitter.com/PaddyHolohanMMA/status/1217816018032177152?s=09

Nift

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, and neither does Charlie Flanagan's match his.

What is wrong with saying that?

ah here, just stop.

I'm going to post it one more time -

“Now listen, I’m for immigration, I’m for bringing people into the country. I love meeting new nations.

“Mostly what you’ll get is people turning up in this country motivated.

“Motivated for a new start, motivated for a new go at it. I love meeting these people.

“Leo Varadkar’s blood ­obviously runs to India. His great-grandfather is not part of the history of this ­country. Now Leo obviously is.

"He’s an Irish ­citizen but his ­passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to.

"My stories from my grandfather would have been of ancient Ireland, that would have made my passion and planted the seed and it grew in me where there is no doubt that Leo Varadkar’s grandfather and father would have told him stories of the rebellion in India.”

now if you can't read that and extrapolate the issues and the like then i'm going to give up. You see the way the but becomes a caveat in that statement, never mind the talk of blood and ancient gaels? Like i said its the comment thats racist, not necessairly the person who said it. But the problem, like last week, is that SF are backboned by loads of nutters who believe this ****. Its the biggest contradiction, loads of anti immigrant angry supporters (not all, perhaps only a small amount i have no figures) but a pro immigration party. You couldn't make it up.

Dude's an idiot..

Phoebas

gmisk wrote: »

His half assed "apology"
Nope that won't do it.

The old 'it's your fault is you misunderstood' non-apology.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What would define Irishness for you? If someone plays hurling then are they more Irish that someone who plays cricket for example? I’m slightly confused at what you are trying to imply.

Charlie Flanagan and I are Irish. Our interpretation of history would be different.

He is no less Irish than I am.

When I hear somebody say 'Leo is obviously a part of it (our history) then I know they are not trying to be racist they are just making a stupid hames of making a simple point.

blanch152

Just seen a photo of a letter to the Irish Times from that great Irishman, Aengus O'Snodaigh - think it was in relation to Verona Murphy.

"Any member of Sinn Fein who makes racist remarks, or is involved in any activity which is racist, will be immediately expelled from the party".

This may yet turn to focus on the Sinn Fein reaction to it. I was happy with Mary Lou calling on him to apologise as she recognised the serious offensive nature of the remarks, but if that is stated Sinn Fein policy, and they don't follow it, they can bring the focus on themselves very quickly.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What would define Irishness for you? If someone plays hurling then are they more Irish that someone who plays cricket for example? I’m slightly confused at what you are trying to imply.

Somebody born on the island of Ireland. Irishness is a personal concept. We've pro Empire British apologist partitionists would lay claim to having Irishness. They'd do away with the language and white wash history, but hey, that's their business. Nobody takes them seriously, even when they're government ministers.

Nift

There 100 per cent is people who believe that if you don't like GAA or the like makes you less Irish. Its a ridiculous level of wankery and mental gymnastics and appeals to the worst part of our Irishness.

DeValera was spanish and born on a ****ing boat but became the most ardent nationalist we have. A man who also played rugby. The horror.

2020Vision

A pretty predictable outcome of allowing a moron unsupervised access to social media.

Most of us have said stupid things at different times in our lives, but fortunately, most of us had the cop-on not to put them up in the cloud.

Hopefully, having duly produced the half-baked apology demanded by his overseers, the hapless Hooligan will now be allowed to crawl back under his stone and will leave politics to the grown ups.

skallywag

Nift wrote: »

DeValera was spanish...

He was Spanish?

So if my dad is from, say, Argentina, and I grow up in, say, Belgium, that means that I am Argentinean, does it?

Nift

skallywag wrote: »

He was Spanish?

So if my dad is from, say, Argentina, and I grow up in, say, Belgium, that means that I am Argentinean, does it?

I'm saying it in the same way as certain people ffs. DeValera was clearly an Irishman but according to some here and Paddy he's not. His pappy Juan Vivion de Valera and his granpappy would have had him on their knee telling him about the spanish rebellions etc. its the exact same ****ing idiotic logic

and its toxic language cause not everybody is as smart as Francie to ddifferinate the nuances (which there isn't) of what he's saying. Sinn Fein are a pro immigration party and its safe to say if you went around Dublin or Ireland in some of our most impoverished corners where SF make hay, the general gist would be anti-immigration.

Now look i know anti immigrant Fine Gael people as well and idiots saying i'm not racist...but. etc

FrancieBrady

2020Vision wrote: »

A pretty predictable outcome of allowing a moron unsupervised access to social media.

Most of us have said stupid things at different times in our lives, but fortunately, most of us had the cop-on not to put them up in the cloud.

Hopefully, having duly produced the half-baked apology demanded by his overseers, the hapless Hooligan will now be allowed to crawl back under his stone and will leave politics to the grown ups.

The guy is not equipped for public life IMO, but then I have a choice of whether I vote for him or not.

There's plenty already in the Dáil I wouldn't vote for either for the same reason.
As for local Councillors...don't get me started. We've had to put up with 'Loadsa money' for decades.

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

I'm saying it in the same way as certain people ffs. DeValera was clearly an Irishman but according to some here and Paddy he's not.

Who has said that here?

James Brown

Nift wrote: »

There 100 per cent is people who believe that if you don't like GAA or the like makes you less Irish. Its a ridiculous level of wankery and mental gymnastics and appeals to the worst part of our Irishness.

DeValera was spanish and born on a ****ing boat but became the most ardent nationalist we have. A man who also played rugby. The horror.

I've met folk like that. 'Oh you play Hurling. I didn't know you were 'real' Irish'.

DeValera did worse than that

Nift

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who has said that here?

if you follow the logic...you for a start. cause thats exactly what Paddy implied, which you have defended and doubled down on

“Now listen, I’m for immigration, I’m for bringing people into the country. I love meeting new nations.

“Mostly what you’ll get is people turning up in this country motivated.

“Motivated for a new start, motivated for a new go at it. I love meeting these people.

“Eamon Devalera's blood ­obviously runs to Spain. His great-grandfather is not part of the history of this ­country. Now Dev obviously is.

"He’s an Irish ­citizen but his ­passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to.

whats the difference?

FrancieBrady

Nift wrote: »

I'm saying it in the same way as certain people ffs. DeValera was clearly an Irishman but according to some here and Paddy he's not. His pappy Juan Vivion de Valera and his granpappy would have had him on their knee telling him about the spanish rebellions etc. its the exact same ****ing idiotic logic

and its toxic language cause not everybody is as smart as Francie to ddifferinate the nuances (which there isn't) of what he's saying. Sinn Fein are a pro immigration party and its safe to say if you went around Dublin or Ireland in some of our most impoverished corners where SF make hay, the general gist would be anti-immigration.

Now look i know anti immigrant Fine Gael people as well and idiots saying i'm not racist...but. etc

Nuances?

You were the guy/gal that cut a pretty important sentence out of what he said to have a rant.

Some of youse guys and gals are gas. :D

Wrongway1985

blanch152 wrote: »

This may yet turn to focus on the Sinn Fein reaction to it.

Which is the reason you started the thread tbf.

You claim to be outraged at Paddy's gobsh1tery yet never addressed why you in your own words were surprised it came from a working class Dublin man and not a rural person basically putting other people below your own standing due to where they are from.

You and Paddy don't get my vote.

Nift

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nuances?

You were the guy/gal that cut a pretty important sentence out of what he said to have a rant.

Some of youse guys and gals are gas. :D

ah just get ****ed seriously. a rant? **** off

You and Paddy have insulted every mixed race/heritage Irish person with your questionably racist views including my own family.

James Brown

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Which is the reason you started the thread tbf.

You claim to be outraged at Paddy's gobsh1tery yet never addressed why you in your own words were surprised it came from a working class Dublin man and not a rural person basically putting other people below your own standing due to where they are from.

You and Paddy don't get my vote.

Wrongway1985 gets my vote

galwayllm

Snowflake fallout in full effect ....


The kale is going to all your heads ... Easy up!

LincolnsBeard

I wonder if he feels the same about Roger Casement for being Homosexual or Pearse/De Valera for their immigrants Father's?

James Brown

Nift wrote: »

But thats not what was said nor implied

both were used to imply that he was a lesser politician and Irishman.

Now Paddy saids thats not what his intention was

Read to me that he thinks you need be an Irish, (by his standards) person and straight to understand what straight Irish people need/want. Ignorant.
I'd expect he thinks the same for the French in France etc.
This implies that you need be Irish, (by his standards) and straight to be a better leader, than Leo is. In that to understand something you need be it. Dumb.
Leo is a lesser politician than most but that's nothing to do with his lineage or orientation.