Limerick City General Election

Mc Love

mitresize5 wrote: »

and while I'm at it the same candidate is a vocal opponent to the Northern Distributor Ring Rod as well

Ever hear of induced demand: https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/

martyc5674

mitresize5 wrote: »

and while I'm at it the same candidate is a vocal opponent to the Northern Distributor Ring Rod as well

I don’t see either roads as something we should be striving for. So I’m not having a laugh no..
I’d be more of the view that we should work towards decentralization, build communities and towns that support their inhabitants from a work, leisure, needs perspective.
This reduces car reliance, promotes good physical & mental health, which have a whole gift of other positive outcomes.

James McNulty

Mc Love wrote: »

Ever hear of induced demand: https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/

Yeah I have but that goes out the window when the 2nd and 3rd largest population centres in this country are connected by (at times) a boreen. I'm referring to the stretch between Charleville and Buttevant .

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-person-dies-following-morning-collision-between-truck-and-car-in-cork-38395138.html

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/motorist-rushed-to-hospital-with-serious-injuries-following-n20-crash-38743131.html

mdmix

mitresize5 wrote: »

you are having a laugh arent you


represents a party that doesnt want to build the motorway between Limerick and Cork.


Please explain how in the hell that represents the city well

Your wrong here. Greens advocate building the motorway via the m8, which would also be half a motorway to Waterford, saving 600 million euro. They say they will use the savings to upgrade the n20, including bypasses around towns and reopen the charleville to limerick train line.

Also they advocate spending the same on transport, just less on roads. The extra spend would be on brt or trams in cities including limerick

Cookiemunster

martyc5674 wrote: »

I don’t see either roads as something we should be striving for. So I’m not having a laugh no..
I’d be more of the view that we should work towards decentralization, build communities and towns that support their inhabitants from a work, leisure, needs perspective.
This reduces car reliance, promotes good physical & mental health, which have a whole gift of other positive outcomes.

The M20 is badly needed. It's currently over capacity and highly dangerous. The whole route between Croom and Partickswell needs to be replaced on safety grounds alone. The majority of the traffic on the road is commuters traveling to Limerick (Northern section) or Cork (Southern section). These people aren't going anywhere and will continue to use the road no matter how much you decentralise and build up the cities.

Building the M20 will make their journeys safer and faster and remove traffic from back roads that is currently avoiding the N20.

It also improves public transport between Cork and Limerick, giving reliable times of under and hour for express buses between the cities, and removes HGVs from the towns and villages along the route again improving on safety.

The Greens want to build a road to the M8 which will sort none of the above issues and just cause even more congestion at Dunkettle.

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

Your wrong here. Greens advocate building the motorway via the m8, which would also be half a motorway to Waterford, saving 600 million euro. They say they will use the savings to upgrade the n20, including bypasses around towns and reopen the charleville to limerick train line.

Also they advocate spending the same on transport, just less on roads. The extra spend would be on brt or trams in cities including limerick

The motorway to the M8 option was rejected by the NRA years ago as it fails the CBA and will again be rejected by TII for the same reasons. You wouldn't save any money when you have to replace the whole road from Croom to Mallow and still build a motorway from Mallow to Cork as traffic figures already justify this. Again, the vast majority of traffic on the N20 is not point to point.

They're using back of a matchbox figures here.

damowill

Kylan Immense Handcuff wrote: »

Half right, but what was the alternative?

One alternative was not to bail out Anglo Irish. Have you lived through austerity of the past 10 years? The decisions of Fianna Fail in their 3 terms of government pre and post crash had huge bearings for our country. To add insult, they lied and squandered money, had no rainy day fund and they obliterated the pension reserve fund. And people ask why we may have to work until we are 68!!

stuckintipp

mdmix wrote: »

Your wrong here. Greens advocate building the motorway via the m8, which would also be half a motorway to Waterford, saving 600 million euro. They say they will use the savings to upgrade the n20, including bypasses around towns and reopen the charleville to limerick train line.

Not the wisest proposal, going along the n24 to Tipp town then cutting South to Mitchelstown crosses Aherlow and galtymore mountains, while a shorter distance substantial higher cost on road design, land upgrades and leveling. Also the main point of the Cork Limerick road is to get people in these commuter areas to both cities faster and safer.

Mitchelstown to Cork is already served by a motorway so no benefit there, in fact having limerick traffic hitting the Dunkettle interchange will make it worse.

No major population centre between Tipp town and Mitchelstown so no benefit there.

Tipp to Limerick population is a lot lower than Charleville to Limerick so fewer people benefit.

The Green Cork-Limerick plan is another examples of ill thought out Green policy, looks good on paper but in reality is full of holes. Greens are getting more popular now because we haven't heard much of them in 10 years, the more coverage they get in the media the more they get exposed and people realise how ill conceived and impractical their policy's are.

The Charleville to Limerick Railway idea would be as bad as the Limerick to Ennis/Galway trainline, used by a few hundred people a day, mostly as free travel with few paying customers

keane2097

Honestly I just can't envisage a world where the M20 doesn't exist at some point in the future, and it's needed now.

No matter how many trams and BRTs you have in Limerick and Cork, and whether you have a motorway from Limerick to Waterford, the road through Charleville, Mallow etc will have to be done and we're wasting our time trying to finesse foolish ways to avoid doing it properly.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

damowill wrote: »

One alternative was not to bail out Anglo Irish.And people ask why we may have to work until we are 68!!

I take it you had no money in your Anglo account at the time so?

damowill wrote: »

And people ask why we may have to work until we are 68!!

That's a good thing.

damowill

From a strategic point of view, if Limerick had access to Rosslare (and Foynes) via a motorway, it would have huge economic benefit for the region. It would link Limerick to the eastern seaboard and benefit Limerick hugely, while also benefiting Tipperary and Waterford, and to a lesser extent Cork (the reason behind the alternate route). It would put Limerick companies in a better position with access to one of our busiest ports. FDI to the region would also benefit. Maybe Limerick may never be Irelands second city but this would be a strategic move to getting there. An M20 is very good for Cork, as it gives them access to the western seaboard. An M24 is much better for Limerick with added benefits for other counties.

Cookiemunster

damowill wrote: »

From a strategic point of view, if Limerick had access to Rosslare (and Foynes) via a motorway, it would have huge economic benefit for the region. It would link Limerick to the eastern seaboard and benefit Limerick hugely, while also benefiting Tipperary and Waterford, and to a lesser extent Cork (the reason behind the alternate route). It would put Limerick companies in a better position with access to one of our busiest ports. FDI to the region would also benefit. Maybe Limerick may never be Irelands second city but this would be a strategic move to getting there. An M20 is very good for Cork, as it gives them access to the western seaboard. An M24 is much better for Limerick with added benefits for other counties.

Sorry, but that's just rubbish. Rosslare Europort, Dublin Port and the whole Eastern seaboard are already easily accessible via the M7 and M11. Foynes will soon be connected to Limerick via the new M21. What's not very accessible from Limerick is Ringaskiddy which is undergoing huge expansion.

And the M20 is supposed to connect Cork to the Western seaboard. Galway, Limerick and Cork need to be connected to provide a proper counter balance to Dublin.

But more importantly (I'll repeat myself again) the M20 is needed now to replace the overcapacity deathtrap that is the current N20 and provide for the majority of users who are commuting into the cities rather than traveling from city to city.

TPMP

mdmix wrote: »

Your wrong here. Greens advocate building the motorway via the m8, which would also be half a motorway to Waterford, saving 600 million euro. They say they will use the savings to upgrade the n20, including bypasses around towns and reopen the charleville to limerick train line.

Also they advocate spending the same on transport, just less on roads. The extra spend would be on brt or trams in cities including limerick

Has a tram system in Limerick actually been discussed? I only heard it being mentioned for Cork and Galway.

Cookiemunster

TPMP wrote: »

Has a tram system in Limerick actually been discussed? I only heard it being mentioned for Cork and Galway.

We don't have the population density in Limerick for a tram to be viable (Neither does Galway actually). Until we start building up rather than out, it never will be viable.

easypazz

TPMP wrote: »

Has a tram system in Limerick actually been discussed? I only heard it being mentioned for Cork and Galway.

Limerick is better than trams.

it already has an extensive network of heavy rail lines in state ownership.

It actually wouldnt take a huge investment (in the grand scheme of things) to have a snazzy rail system for limerick serving, for example:

Foynes, askeaton, adare, patrickswell, parteen, cratloe sixmilebridge, castleconnell, parkway shopping centre, crescent shopping centre, mungret, raheen.

But as has been said already, building up needs to happen.

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

We don't have the population density in Limerick for a tram to be viable (Neither does Galway actually). Until we start building up rather than out, it never will be viable.

Again, that’s what the greens are calling for. Whether or not the greens can achieve any of they’re plans is debatable. Even if they could, Éamonn Ryan is not the man to do it.

OfTheMarsWongs

mdmix wrote: »

Again, that’s what the greens are calling for. Whether or not the greens can achieve any of they’re plans is debatable. Even if they could, Éamonn Ryan is not the man to do it.

They’ve not suggested a tram in the Luas sense of tracks on roads. They’ve suggested making use of existing rail lines for an urban/commuter rail.

damowill

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Sorry, but that's just rubbish. Rosslare Europort, Dublin Port and the whole Eastern seaboard are already easily accessible via the M7 and M11. Foynes will soon be connected to Limerick via the new M21. What's not very accessible from Limerick is Ringaskiddy which is undergoing huge expansion.

And the M20 is supposed to connect Cork to the Western seaboard. Galway, Limerick and Cork need to be connected to provide a proper counter balance to Dublin.

But more importantly (I'll repeat myself again) the M20 is needed now to replace the overcapacity deathtrap that is the current N20 and provide for the majority of users who are commuting into the cities rather than traveling from city to city.

Its not rubbish.....

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/councillors-m24-would-spell-disaster-for-cork-and-make-limerick-irelands-second-city-958951.html

Cookiemunster

damowill wrote: »

Its not rubbish.....

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/councillors-m24-would-spell-disaster-for-cork-and-make-limerick-irelands-second-city-958951.html

Not really the best article to be using to back up your argument.

Firstly, don't be believing what local county councilors say when it comes to balanced regional development. Most haven't a clue.

Secondly, This guy was corrected a few days later, proving that all he'd done was go on a rant because he'd no idea what he was talking about. Members of Tipp council on the SRA suggest that the M24 be built. Members of LCCC agreed that this was a good idea as long as it was built after the M20. https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/h...-motorway.html

So yes, it is a load of rubbish.

Granadino

Tis hilarious. Candidates canvassing in an area heavy with ex Irish Cement employees, campaigning to close Irish Cement, asking those ex employees and possibly current employees to vote for them and put 50 people out of work. Funnily enough, they're just dropping the leaflets in the door.

martyc5674

Granadino wrote: »

Tis hilarious. Candidates canvassing in an area heavy with ex Irish Cement employees, campaigning to close Irish Cement, asking those ex employees and possibly current employees to vote for them and put 50 people out of work. Funnily enough, they're just dropping the leaflets in the door.

It’s called the greater good.
Sometimes doing the right thing causes a bit of pain.
Now if Irish Cement cleaned up their act maybe everyone would be happy(and I’m sure that would have a positive impact on those who spend 40 hours a week in there too)
But their track record is poor, hence they have lost a lot of trust.

Granadino

martyc5674 wrote: »

It’s called the greater good.
Sometimes doing the right thing causes a bit of pain.
Now if Irish Cement cleaned up their act maybe everyone would be happy(and I’m sure that would have a positive impact on those who spend 40 hours a week in there too)
But their track record is poor, hence they have lost a lot of trust.

So 50 people, with mortgages, families etc losing their jobs is for the greater good, and you expect local people with ties to Irish Cement to vote for it? Not going to happen.

Who the hell is the Limerick National Party candidate? Just watched her YT video. FFS.

martyc5674

Granadino wrote: »

So 50 people, with mortgages, families etc losing their jobs is for the greater good, and you expect local people with ties to Irish Cement to vote for it? Not going to happen.

Who the hell is the Limerick National Party candidate? Just watched her YT video. FFS.

Blame Irish cement for not cleaning up their act... 50 lost jobs versus adverse health for 1000s for god knows how many more years to come....
Fair enough the families of those directly impacted would be pissed but it’s not like Irish cement are not in a position to clean up their act, it’s Irish cement who are letting their workforce down.

I’ve never heard of the limerick national party.

s7ryf3925pivug

martyc5674 wrote: »

Blame Irish cement for not cleaning up their act... 50 lost jobs versus adverse health for 1000s for god knows how many more years to come....
Fair enough the families of those directly impacted would be pissed but it’s not like Irish cement are not in a position to clean up their act, it’s Irish cement who are letting their workforce down.

I’ve never heard of the limerick national party.

Absolutely, but no point arguing with someone who works there; reasonable to think they will never agree.

National party is Ireland for the Irish far right nonsense. Their candidate is a teacher.

martyc5674

Erin Squeaking Noblewoman wrote: »

Absolutely, but no point arguing with someone who works there; reasonable to think they will never agree

I get that for sure, but it’s an extension of NIMBY. I’m alright Jack etc.
My job is more important than your health/we were here first blah de blah.

It’s still worth discussing this topic with workers there... I’m sure CRH have given them a different slant on the whole thing.

Mc Love

Sure people would have weighed up the risks of living close to a heavy industrial factory?

s7ryf3925pivug

Mc Love wrote: »

Sure people would have weighed up the risks of living close to a heavy industrial factory?

Housing crisis.

Bad planning has contributed to it a lot though. Nice park and big playground right beside it as well as lots of schools.

Cookiemunster

Erin Squeaking Noblewoman wrote: »

Housing crisis.

Bad planning has contributed to it a lot though. Nice park and big playground right beside it as well as lots of schools.

The cement factory has been there since 1938 and predates the vast majority of the housing in the area, which in turn predates the housing crisis.

s7ryf3925pivug

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The cement factory has been there since 1938 and predates the vast majority of the housing in the area, which in turn predates the housing crisis.

Yes it was bad planning to place schools and residential areas around it.

I agree with its closure. It has a very patchy record and that can't be accepted when it places so many people and children at risk.

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The cement factory has been there since 1938 and predates the vast majority of the housing in the area, which in turn predates the housing crisis.

Urban Sprawl - The curse