Compulsory National Service from the age of 18.

Duke of Url

Do you think Ireland should introduce Compulsory National Service?

I believe it would be beneficial to have Compulsory National Service from the age of 18 for a year.

There could be a choice to Service in the Military or Community Services for 12 months.

What do you think?

Yurt2

Is the Soviet Union after us or something?

Yes a rapid response Winter-tactical unit for a non-existant military threat made up of howiyas is just what this country needs.

TwoMonthsOff

Is there any evdience that this would benefit society as a whole?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Duke of Url wrote: »

Do you think Ireland should introduce Compulsory National Service?

I believe it would be beneficial to have Compulsory National Service from the age of 18 for a year.

There could be a choice to Service in the Military or Community Services for 12 months.

What do you think?

Depends on what the options were. I'm open to National, but not a chance we should bring in compulsory military service.

darklighter

Duke of Url wrote: »

Do you think Ireland should introduce Compulsory National Service?

I believe it would be beneficial to have Compulsory National Service from the age of 18 for a year.

There could be a choice to Service in the Military or Community Services for 12 months.

What do you think?

Great idea....except id do it after the Junior Cert

osarusan

I know a mother who gave up her South Korean citizenship so her Irish-born kids wouldn't have to do this in South Korea. She'd be fairly pissed off if it came in here.

She once didn't offer me a drink at a party though, so for that reason, I'm in.

Yurt2

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

Is there any evdience that this would benefit society as a whole?

What evidence is needed when it's just a right-wing fantasy?

Countries with national service (Israel, South Korea) have such conscription because there is a genuine identifiable security threat hanging over their heads. Not as a borstal for teenagers that people think could do with good old fashioned discipline because of their sh*t hair and general sloppy demeanour.

Duke of Url

Yurt! wrote: »

What evidence is needed when it's just a right-wing fantasy?

Countries with national service (Israel, South Korea) have such conscription because there is a genuine identifiable security threat hanging over their heads. Not as a borstal for teenagers that people think could do with good old fashioned discipline because of their sh*t hair and general sloppy demeanour.

Do you classify Community Service as Military service also?

super_furry

Duke of Url wrote: »

I believe it would be beneficial to have Compulsory National Service from the age of 18 for a year.

Why?

suicide_circus

its not teenagers with sloppy hair that could do with discipline, its the large and growing number of teenagers with no structure, boundaries, proper parenting or positive role models in their lives. Promoting the traditional family unit is now seen as a fascistic endeavour and ultimately its children who have born the brunt of this.

Yurt2

Duke of Url wrote: »

Do you classify Community Service as Military service also?

Have some idea what goes on with these sort of schemes in other countries. Usually teenagers end up photocopying or making tea in police stations - they're not arsed and generally resentful. And when they're finished, they still have sh*t hair and a sloppy demeanour. A waste of 1 or 2 years of a young persons' life.

ambro25

Military CNS made sense in Western Europe whilst the threat of large-scale conflict (requiring volumes of cannon fodder) endured, until the late 80s

With the end of the Cold War, the emancipation of ex-Warsaw Pact countries (plus fragmentation, for some) and the regionalisation of conflicts (not to mention their ever-shorter duration), there just hasn't been a valid case for it for years - and ever less so as socio-economic enmeshment progresses amongst member states of the EU over time.

It's a waste of public money for the taxpayers, and of time for the conscripted.

(I should know: I did mine, was amongst last conscriptable classes of age in France before they binned CNS).

You're not going to fix shifting societal and moral values in generation Z and younger (inasmuch as they may require fixing at all) with a civilian version of it, either.

Ubbquittious

Fecking mighty idea

El Tarangu

OP - what age group are you in yourself? Perhaps we should have national service for this age group - could be beneficial, you never know.

Yurt2

suicide_circus wrote: »

its not teenagers with sloppy hair that could do with discipline, its the large and growing number of teenagers with no structure, boundaries, proper parenting or positive role models in their lives. Promoting the traditional family unit is now seen as a fascistic endeavour and ultimately its children who have born the brunt of this.

Precisely. Moral panic. The answer isn't conscription. The state isn't a surrogate for sh*te parenting and the social fabric fraying due to a bifurcated economy. It's a right-wing fantasy that social problems can be solved with conscription / community service.

Duke of Url

Yurt! wrote: »

Have some idea what goes on with these sort of schemes in other countries. Usually teenagers end up photocopying or making tea in police stations - they're not arsed and generally resentful. And when they're finished, they still have sh*t hair and a sloppy demeanour. A waste of 1 or 2 years of a young persons' life.

Which Countries did you live in with the Schemes?

I lived in Germany when these Schemes where in place and know alot of people who went though them.

Yurt2

Duke of Url wrote: »

Which Countries did you live in with the Schemes?

Does it matter?

Duke of Url

Yurt! wrote: »

Does it matter?

Yes it does if you say you have an insight into it from other countries.

Duke of Url

El Tarangu wrote: »

OP - what age group are you in yourself? Perhaps we should have national service for this age group - could be beneficial, you never know.

No problem. If I got a letter in the door saying I had to do it then I would do it.

You still haven't outlined what the benefit would be OP...

For crying out loud!!! Life is already tough enough for young people in this country.

1) Education is expensive! A lot of students require a loan for course fees.

2) Rental market is more insane than its ever been.

3) Learning to drive is harder than ever. Theory test, 12 mandatory lessons, Insurance costs through the roof for young drivers.

4) As you age a bit, you’ll realise you can’t afford to buy a house or will struggle to afford it.

5) Child care costs are insane. Some people can’t justify going back to work full time as it’s so expensive.

Most people are literally unable to buy a house or start a family until their mid 30s.

Why should another year be wasted?

Yurt2

Duke of Url wrote: »

Yes it does if you say you have an insight into it from other countries.

I've lived in two with such national service. Take my word for it, or don't. Doesn't matter to me.

There's still crime, still adults who went through the system with sh*t attitudes afterwards,and still dysfunctional families.

CrankyHaus

osarusan wrote: »

I know a mother who gave up her South Korean citizenship so her Irish-born kids wouldn't have to do this in South Korea. She'd be fairly pissed off if it came in here.

She once didn't offer me a drink at a party though, so for that reason, I'm in.

South Korea has a serious problem with bullying of conscripts, to the point of death in some cases. So you can see where she's coming from.

Russia has the Dedovschina culture of bullying conscripts, it also had problems with officers renting out conscripts as labour and even rent-boys.

In the Irish contect the idea's silly. There's no military need for it and nothing it would do socially or educationally that couldn't be done better and cheaper with targeted programs.

Plumbthedepths

Duke of Url wrote: »

Do you think Ireland should introduce Compulsory National Service?

I believe it would be beneficial to have Compulsory National Service from the age of 18 for a year.

There could be a choice to Service in the Military or Community Services for 12 months.

What do you think?

The government isn't prepared to fund the professional army we have at present. Where do you think the money for conscripts will come from?

ambro25

Duke of Url wrote: »

Which Countries did you live in with the Schemes?

I'll not reply on Yurt's behalf, but complete my earlier post with my experience in mid90s.

Living UK, completing Uni, 1st job 6 months +newlywed, honeymoon 3 weeks, then straight to France for induction.

Asked for paras (to visit Mrs a bit longer: double leave (2weeks over duration of CNS); it wasn't for the double pay (€112 i/of €56...per month)). Refused due to eyesight issue diagnosed at the induction medical.

Opted for civilian version (still under military code at all times for duration of CNS, head still buzzcut), thought it'd be more interesting than ending up dogsbody to some ego-tripping noncom or other. Didn't need to learn discipline (I can take orders fine), weapons, grooming, field life etc. - at least not to the levels dispensed in CNS.

Ended up assigned to a civil service job in a Préfecture ('cadre A' level, for those in the know: around €30k pay grade (mid90s remember); I was kept on the Army payroll...at €56 pm of course): nice enough swindle for the civil service and their budgets.

I won't spit in the soup, it was a more interesting (and comfortable) way of spending 12 months, than twiddling thumbs and smoking tabs in khakis in some godforsaken rundown military base in the arse end of nowhere, France.

Away from my wife, in a country I owed nothing to and wanted nothing to do with, on call 24/7 for less than beer money.

But it did absolutely f*** all for me in a personal/professional capacity, bar reinforce the views that had led me to emigrate in the first place some years before.

The only benefit is that obviously I had passed the background/security vetting for the assignment (higher than your usual security guard, but not quite 'eyes only'). Oh, and I can say that I have been a genuine "hussar", with the named cert (of completion of CNS) to prove it

Dubh Geannain

Why not in exchange for a 4.5 day week every last Friday in the month the whole country goes outside and does a bit of community work for an hour or two. Put some callouses on those soft hands of ours.

We used to give up an hour a week for the Church easily enough.

El Tarangu

Duke of Url wrote: »

No problem. If I got a letter in the door saying I had to do it then I would do it.

Fair enough; I often find its the case that the people who most enthusiastically support national service are people in a demographic that makes it very unlikely to be called, but I have no reason to doubt that you are in earnest.

As a general response to the proposal, I think a lot of people would think that the billions required to set up such a scheme would be better spend on easing the effects of the housing crisis or on the health service.

Yurt2

If the nation's security was under genuine threat then you'd have no shortage of people that would enthusiastically serve.

Until then, notions of compulsory national service can be filed under "those punk kids" sentiments.

Duke of Url

El Tarangu wrote: »

Fair enough; I often find its the case that the people who most enthusiastically support national service are people in a demographic that makes it very unlikely to be called, but I have no reason to doubt that you are in earnest.

As a general response to the proposal, I think a lot of people would think that the billions required to set up such a scheme would be better spend on easing the effects of the housing crisis or on the health service.

Dont get me wrong

If compulsory National Service was introduced and I had an option to choose Public Services over Military Services then working in areas like hospitals, retirement homes, emergency medical services, environmental protection, agriculture, and public administration like how the German Schemes worked would be interesting for me and I think it would benefit Irish Society also.

whisky_galore

It's like bringing industrial schools back.
Unnecessary, expensive and unworkable.

El Tarangu

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

Why not in exchange for a 4.5 day week every last Friday in the month the whole country goes outside and does a bit of community work for an hour or two. Put some callouses on those soft hands of ours.

Hospital consultants (for example) will earn €250k under new proposals. If they worked as hospital consultants for 4.5 hours instead of doing community work, the taxes that they would generate in those 4.5 hours could more than pay for a dedicated, professional community worker to work those hours - this can be extended to essentially every professional earning above a certain salary.

I'd rather we paid enthusiastic professionals, who want to do this sort of work, to do this community work, rather than obliging reluctant accountants, engineers and software developers, whose talents could be better applied elsewhere, to do so.