Election: Fianna Fáil - pretending we don't remember

Jinglejangle69

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They prime pumped the economy when they should have taken action to cool the stampede including introducing taxes on property and increasing stamp duty.

They didn't. They let the housing market go out of control and blow up in everyone's face.

They ran a budget which was increasingly hopelessly dependent on property related income.

But yeah lets all blame the other parties :rolleyes:

If the Irish people let this crowd in again then they deserve all they are going to get.

Don't underestimate the role of social media and promoting fake news in the last 10 years.

Its a really interesting topic when it comes to politics.

Sleeper12

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Doesnt come near to 10 billion and you know it.

Sorry this is a thread about FF.

There is plenty of FG threads for your whataboutery.

Actually it comes very close to 10 billion. Factor in that FF wasted money when we had plenty & FG wasted almost as much when we had little or no money.



There's little or no difference between the two parties. Both are wasteful with our money & both play fast & loose at budget time.

Jinglejangle69

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Actually it comes very close to 10 billion. Factor in that FF wasted money when we had plenty & FG wasted almost as much when we had little or no money.



There's little or no difference between the two parties. Both are wasteful with our money & both play fast & loose at budget time.

Show me the maths there please.

McMurphy

Any of our resident FG loyalist supporters who are cock sure they're going to waltz back in to power needs to get themselves to a bookies now.

Paddy Power currently offering odds of 6/4 for FG to win the most seats in 2020 election, so if you've a spare 400 lying around there's a handy 600 to lift.

FF are 1-2 on, 400 on them boyos will get you 200 back if they get most votes.

Leo v Michael for Taoiseach odds are much the same.

If you've a spare 400, throw it on Leo and if he's returned as Taoiseach, you'll get 650€ profit.
@ 13-8

Martin being next Taoiseach after the next election would net you just shy of 180€ profit if you pay down a 400€ bet. @. 4-9

Might throw a cheeky net down on Martin now, as I think the odds will shorten to fcuk when the live debates start, as I fully expect leo to lose his cool when the going gets tough for him

_Brian

flazio wrote: »

So depending on how far back I want to remember,
I can't forget, FF bursting the Tiger bubble,
FG causing a housing and homeless crisis*
Labour helping FG with same
SF supporting the early release of Garda killers,
.

I'm going to have to forgive one of these parties for their past misdeeds surely?

*Health trolley crisis I'm not apportioning to any particular party as it's been going on back as far as at least Mary Harney if not further back.

How did FF burst the tiger bubble when it was literally a global financial meltdown??

How are you blaming FG for the housing crisis when it was FF who stopped building social housing, moved the requirement to build them onto developers and then didn’t ensure it was done ??

If you want someone to blame for the trolly crisis it’s people who smoke and drink, both leisure activities that are a conscious individual choice and they block 70% of hospital beds as they get sicker and die horrible deaths.

The “homeless” crisis is really about 10% of actual numbers (rough sleepers), the rest are playing the system to get free houses while hammering out sprogs all the time.

Plumbthedepths

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

??

An easy question, are you attempting to mod the discussion?

Seth Brundle

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This problem stems from the collapse of the housing market and the banks caused by FF.

...and allowing the sell off of council houses without replacing them

Plumbthedepths

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

And?

Its a FF thread.

You posted something many times in a thread last week, bumping it up to every page.

It's a thread about FF but it is not restricted to the best of my knowledge unless a mod wishes to make it so.

Idbatterim

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This problem stems from the collapse of the housing market and the banks caused by FF.

Yes. The fg response was glacially slow though and i don’t agree with their policy of free housing for some and rip off for many working poor , in **** situations, paying for it

charlie14

Seth Brundle wrote: »

As I understand it, FF still have not asked the likes of Pee Flynn for the money that was given to the party through him.
Does that indicate anything?

At least it wasn`t taxpayers money.
The 241Million for the road from Castlebar to Westport is.
Expensive vote buying imho.

Idbatterim

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They prime pumped the economy when they should have taken action to cool the stampede including introducing taxes on property and increasing stamp duty.

They didn't. They let the housing market go out of control and blow up in everyone's face.

They ran a budget which was increasingly hopelessly dependent on property related income.

But yeah lets all blame the other parties :rolleyes:

If the Irish people let this crowd in again then they deserve all they are going to get.

Yeah. Imagine given what happened, we vote them back in. Ff have fooled us once... do we want to give them the chance to do it twice ? One if the only positives you can give to fg , they haven’t driven the economy off a cliff ... yet. But I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt over ff for now

Jinglejangle69

Just listening to Pio Smith there on prime time, spoke very well.

The recession and cutbacks and reduction in garda numbers is now a big factor in the feud in Drogheda getting out of control.

Remember we are still suffering the hangover of wrecklessl FF policies which decimated every corner of this country.

Will take years to rebuild

FF closed Templemore.

Its open again.

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So who was meant to be keeping an eye on the banks as they wrecklessly lent money and needed a bailout to the tune of 160 billion euro?

Moses??

The independent regulator. Obviously! Same as now

Sleeper12

Jinglejangle69 wrote:

Show me the maths there please.

Irish water cost the state over 2 billion up until the end of 2016 alone. This does not take into account costs in the last three years. This does not take into account the cost of the Gardai & Court cases, nor the water grant they paid every household. Rural broadband 3 billion & more. Rural broadband we'll never own. Hospital 3 billion & counting. The hospital will be the most expensive hospital ever built per square foot in the entire world. It's being built in the wrong place and will never be able to function as originally planned. These are just three examples of squandering our money in the last 8 years or so. These are just the big ones. There are plenty of smaller ones. It will be interesting to see what newspapers add up for the last 8 years.

Jinglejangle69

Idbatterim wrote: »

The independent regulator. Obviously! Same as now

He didn't do his job so who do we blame seems FG get the blame for the same situation with the childrens hospital as an example.

Plumbthedepths

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They prime pumped the economy when they should have taken action to cool the stampede including introducing taxes on property and increasing stamp duty.

They didn't. They let the housing market go out of control and blow up in everyone's face.

They ran a budget which was increasingly hopelessly dependent on property related income.

But yeah lets all blame the other parties :rolleyes:

If the Irish people let this crowd in again then they deserve all they are going to get.

I didn't mention other parties in my response to your claim that FF collapsed the banks. Just pointing out the flaw in your claim.

Seth Brundle

charlie14 wrote: »

At least it wasn`t taxpayers money.
The 241Million for the road from Castlebar to Westport is.
Expensive vote buying imho.

They are still allowing politicians to benefit from corruption and fraud.
I'd recommend that every voter read Frank Connolly's book on Tom Gilmartin!

Shefwedfan

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/state-waste-of-10bn-in-10-years-26326371.html




Article from 2009, yeah Fianna Fáil are definitely the better option and nothing was their fault!!!!

Who said nothing was FF fault? any of my posts said they need to shoulder the blame.....


But all the time FF was in government FG sat right across from them and done what exactly?



At least when FF wasted it we had it:p:p....FG are wasting it and we dont have 2 pence to rub together.



So which is worse?

Jinglejangle69

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Irish water cost the state over 2 billion up until the end of 2016 alone. This does not take into account costs in the last three years. This does not take into account the cost of the Gardai & Court cases, nor the water grant they paid every household. Rural broadband 3 billion & more. Rural broadband we'll never own. Hospital 3 billion & counting. The hospital will be the most expensive hospital ever built per square foot in the entire world. It's being built in the wrong place and will never be able to function as originally planned. These are just three examples of squandering our money in the last 8 years or so. These are just the big ones. There are plenty of smaller ones. It will be interesting to see what newspapers add up for the last 8 years.

Wrong wrong and fake news.

Irish water are still a company providing a valuable service.

Show me the link to the hospital costing 3 billion?

The broadband plan, how is that wasted money????? Most people are happy with it and realise it is needed for our future.

Sleeper12

Seth Brundle wrote:

...and allowing the sell off of council houses without replacing them

In fairness that policy was going on since the 80s. Just about every party has been in government since then allowing this to happen. SF are the only party not to have been in power while we sold off our social housing. Not that SF are whiter than white but they are the only party that wasn't involved in this policy

Phoebas

Sleeper12 wrote: »

In fairness that policy was going on since the 80s. Just about every party has been in government since then allowing this to happen. SF are the only party not to have been in power while we sold off our social housing. Not that SF are whiter than white but they are the only party that wasn't involved in this policy

Tenant purchase is part of Sinn Fein's housing policy - have a read of their Better4Housing policy document.

charlie14

Seth Brundle wrote: »

They are still allowing politicians to benefit from corruption and fraud.
I'd recommend that every voter read Frank Connolly's book on Tom Gilmartin!

Well we have had a few dodgy expenses claims from FG TD`s and Senators and Dara Murphy`s carry on into the bargain.
There is also an old FG friend with adverse tribunal findings that keeps popping up when state contracts are being awarded.


When it comes to corruption fraud and dodgy dealings there isn`t a hairs breadth between them

Plumbthedepths

Phoebas wrote: »

Tenant purchase is part of Sinn Fein's housing policy - have a read of their Better4Housing policy document.

Tenant purchase is also a policy of Labour. Listened to Howlin being interviewed by Pat Kenny yesterday. Labour wants to build 80,000 affordable and social housing. When pressed about tenant purchase Howlin stated it was a policy Labour supports. Personally it's a stupid policy no matter the party. Social housing should never be sold, it should be viewed as low rental until you can afford to house yourself.

Sleeper12

Jinglejangle69 wrote:

Irish water are still a company providing a valuable service.

What is Irish water doing that the councils didn't do before them? The main staff in Irish water are the original council staff. They are doing the same job under a different name. The only money they collect is from commercial water rates and the councils already collected that. I paid it myself for decades.

Jinglejangle69 wrote:

Show me the link to the hospital costing 3 billion?

Children's hospital was expected to be just over 1 billion in 2014. This jumped up to 1.3 billion at the end of 2018. 12 months later its expected to cost over 2 billion. Do you honestly think that is the end of the over runs? I'll gladly put money on it that a new government will discover that the figures were dampened in the same way they did with the homeless figures. Children's hospital even at 2 billion is already the most expensive hospital in the world. Here's the best part, FG are that competent that they are spending this money building a hospital on land that they don't even own!!!

Jinglejangle69 wrote:

The broadband plan, how is that wasted money????? Most people are happy with it and realise it is needed for our future.

Rural broadband isn't a waste of money BUT giving 3 billion to a private company & not even owning the infrastructure is mind numbingly stupid. That, my friend is squandering our money. They even rushed it through in time to let it buy County votes. FF will never be dead when FG in government.

Sleeper12

Phoebas wrote:

Tenant purchase is part of Sinn Fein's housing policy - have a read of their Better4Housing policy document.

They are the only party not to have been in government during this policy run. I know nothing about SF but I'd be pretty certain that there might be tenant purchase in their policy but they would also have social housing building. There is nothing wrong with tenant purchasing. It's not replenishing the stock that caused the damage

Shefwedfan

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Wrong wrong and fake news.

Irish water are still a company providing a valuable service. .

Irish Water was pushed off to Ervia, the government now have to bring Irish Water back into a state owned company.



I agree Irish Water provide a valuable service but they made a balls of it.

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Show me the link to the hospital costing 3 billion?

How much do you think the hospital will cost?


Nobody knows but all of the costs discussed do not include the cost to fit out the hospital. In April last year it was 2 billion just to build.....this has been going up and up and no sign of it. The 2 billion as well includes no fit out

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

The broadband plan, how is that wasted money????? Most people are happy with it and realise it is needed for our future.

This is a service which is required.



Why did FG go outside the process and hand a load of customer to Eir. These customer where the profitable ones and would allow companies to balance the install costs to the nonprofitable. As they did this it killed the whole process.



Also why bother putting out a tender if they would not actually follow the process? people complain about FF and brown paper envelopes but this was clear case of it.

Due to this, companies all dropped out. Then the cost went through the roof. Even Eir made a joke of them coming back in and saying they could do it at 1 billion. Which the government then said they couldnt take up because it was outside the tender process.......:p:p:p:p:p:p what a shower of gobs**ts!!!!



If they couldnt do it when it would save 2 billion how could they do it when it saved us nothing

That's the great FG.....couldnt even get a brown envelope correctly

charlie14

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Wrong wrong and fake news.

Irish water are still a company providing a valuable service.

Show me the link to the hospital costing 3 billion?

The broadband plan, how is that wasted money????? Most people are happy with it and realise it is needed for our future.

Irish Water and metering was a colossal waste of money. Anywhere between 800 Million and 1 Billion plus.



The original estimate for the Children Hospital was 800 Million. It is now approaching 2 Billion and nobody still knows what the final figure will be.


The original estimate for the National Broadband Plan was 500 Million.

After a minister having to step down we ended up with the farce of a single bidder who will receive 3 Billion of taxpayers money and will own the network.



The Dept of Public Expenditure were far from happy with it

Phoebas

Phoebas wrote: »

The small parties and Inds have more seats than they ever had before.
The problem is that most of them didn't want to go into government.

This is ridiculous. Time and again the Irish electorate has destroyed any party foolish enough to go into coalition, with FFG.
PD, Green, Labour all gone (in Labour's case it's a slow death).

I'd be amazed if, say, the SocDems were foolish enough to fall into the trap. What on earth is there to be gained by pandering to a party on the other side of the political divide?

Sleeper12

Shefwedfan wrote:

Also why bother putting out a tender if they would not actually follow the process? people complain about FF and brown paper envelopes but this was clear case of it.

Ah Jasus this process stank to high heaven. The minister for communication having private meetings and dinners without any aids present, with the winning bidder of the broadband contract. It reminds me of Michael Lowery and the Esat & century licenses. Nothing to see here. Move on, move on, move on.

charlie14

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

He didn't do his job so who do we blame seems FG get the blame for the same situation with the childrens hospital as an example.

The regulator had nothing to do with the Children Hospital. Where did you get that idea ?
The ever rising cost of the Children Hospital is because of sheer political incompetence. Nothing else.